EQ Never

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tad10

Elisha Dushku
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595
Taking stuff from Vanguard is a great start. The original combat system was amazing, very slow, very tactical, like Magic the Gathering. Then they scrapped it and it was never seen again
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If some of those ideas still remain and are used it could be really interesting.
Never saw the original but I can't imagine EQN releasing with combat that is slow. I just hope it isn't button mashing madness and has ot/dt.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
Never saw the original but I can't imagine EQN releasing with combat that is slow. I just hope it isn't button mashing madness and has ot/dt.
To this day I still do not understand why Smed and staff dug in and didn't ditch EQ2's gawdawful combat system. The many, many bad design decisions for EQ2 as well as the nature of PS2 really kills any sense of optimism I have for this title.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
To this day I still do not understand why Smed and staff dug in and didn't ditch EQ2's gawdawful combat system. The many, many bad design decisions for EQ2 as well as the nature of PS2 really kills any sense of optimism I have for this title.
Same thing could be asked of Turbine and LOTRO. Offhand I'd say combat system is so integral to design that to redo it you'd have to redesign the game entirely and after the SWG/NGE debacle nobody wants to do that.

This begs the question of how such bad combat systems got in their respective games in the first place.
 
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I wouldn't give up hope of it being like EQ, slower paced where each spell matters and hopefully each spell has a cast time too (no more instant spam spells). But that early Vanguard version is long gone. Some people loved it but some people complained it was slow and boring, and Sigil caved immediately because they were a bunch of spineless dick holes with no balls and no money. I feel sorry for them tbh but still.

But it's a shame because it was all about strategy and thought, and people were used to button bashing and couldn't get their heads around it. So they just scrapped it and out popped an EQ/WoW hybrid. But even that was ok. I hope EQN builds upon that.

Gotta be honest though, I'm playing EQ at the moment and it's dawning on me that even EQ isn't that hard in some circumstances. Yeah early on it was brutal and hard and chaotic. But I six box a typical group makeup, warrior, cleric, chanter, and some dps casters. The only challenge is splitting the groups of mobs with lull and hoping that it doesn't fail. Once that's done, it's extremely smooth sailing. When I'm just fighting one mob, I pull it with my warrior, wait a few seconds for him to build some aggro, and then I can basically just shoot all my casters spells at once. They all hit more or less together and can kill a mob in one go. Which disappoints me...

Hopefully once I get to level 50 and beyond, that will change. But still, it's a mile better than any other MMO I've ever played. If the EQ Next team understand this, it could be great.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
My theory is <was?> EQ2 was not designed by people who actually game, but more by suits, and self important types. I always got the feeling with early Blizzard and Bioware that their games were things they played and loved. I did get that somewhat from EQ, although it was more an homage to AD&D and Muds, which appealed to both groups.

That's my concern with EQN. Are the pen and paper and MUD designers making something they will love, or is this a suit driven, hype laden machine to try and simply market and cash in?
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
My theory is <was?> EQ2 was not designed by people who actually game, but more by suits, and self important types. I always got the feeling with early Blizzard and Bioware that their games were things they played and loved. I did get that somewhat from EQ, although it was more an homage to AD&D and Muds, which appealed to both groups.

That's my concern with EQN. Are the pen and paper and MUD designers making something they will love, or is this a suit driven, hype laden machine to try and simply market and cash in?
Had an interesting discussion with a friend who still plays EQ and is in Citizen on fippy; as they've gone through the various expansions he says it is easy to tell when an expansion was designed by someone who played the game, or by someone who was earning a paycheck. He gave an example of caster gear issues in TSS that should have been obvious if the person designing the expansion itemization had played the game.

I think everyone agrees that the best games are made by players. That's why I disagree with Ut about Trost & co., as you noted, the original EQ1 designers were trying to make AD&D on the computer with a 24-hour dungeon master so they could all game "together" (virtually if not physically) anytime they wanted instead of once a week at Brad's house.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
LOTRO half fixed their combat system from launch. It's actually not that bad now. Not great, but not that bad. But this opinion was from 2 years ago.
 

RobXIII

Urinal Cake Consumption King
<Gold Donor>
3,850
2,217
Slow weapons were better. Which was unintended.
You could split linked mobs though that was nerfed before 1.8.
Hunter pets. Blizzard didn't realize the extent to which hunters would go to create a stable of special pets. So specials were nerfed around 1.12 or something.
Wall climbing. For those if us who liked exploring.

probably more but those come immediately to mind
I never got the mentality behind the nerfs to harmless fun. The actual straw that broke my camel's subscription to WoW was when they nerfed that goblin quest globe thingy that would transform you into a random race. Fun is not allowed, your illusion poofs now as soon as you unequip it! Stupid...
 

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,932
891
At some point in eq2 (around Kunark, I think?) they actually did talk about doing skill consolidation to cut down the horrific number of hotbars, but they largely dumped the idea. I think there was some players bitching that it would "make the combat too easy", but I can't remember if that's what caused them not to do it.

They did do some very minor skill consolidation, such as consolidating wizard and druid ports down to one spell, rather than having a separate spell for each location, and having one 'Master's Strike' ability, rather than one for every race, but that was about it.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
That doesn't say anything about Trost vis-a-vis AD&D-like fantasy franchises.

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=27659&tab=credits

As always, past performance is no guarentee of future results so Aug 2d might prove to all of us that EQN is a giant turdball in which case you can crap all over me for being optimistic and Draegen can change my Avatar to Mr. Hankey or something similiar. OTOH, maybe not.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
I never got the mentality behind the nerfs to harmless fun. The actual straw that broke my camel's subscription to WoW was when they nerfed that goblin quest globe thingy that would transform you into a random race. Fun is not allowed, your illusion poofs now as soon as you unequip it! Stupid...
Remember when you could use l33t speak to talk to the other side? Perhaps the problem is that Irvine is too close to Anaheim so after too many Disneyland visits Blizzard decided that controlled fun is the best fun (tm).
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
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That doesn't say anything about Trost vis-a-vis AD&D-like fantasy franchises.

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=27659&tab=credits

As always, past performance is no guarentee of future results so Aug 2d might prove to all of us that EQN is a giant turdball in which case you can crap all over me for being optimistic and Draegen can change my Avatar to Mr. Hankey or something similiar. OTOH, maybe not.
Honestly, I would rather hope you are right and I have something fun to play in the EQ universe again.

But that happening is about the same chance I have at the Vikings winning the Super Bowl.

If someone else was leading the helm, I would be more enthusiastic. You have to remember that not only are these individuals comprised of those that have taken a galactic shit on this genre for the last 10+ years, they are all now in the same 1,000 square foot radius all shitting on the genre as the fucking Wonder Twins.

If anyone of them had the humility to say, "We fucked up about a thousand times and this is what we learned" and were point blank accountable, there is a better chance of something ever coming out of this.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
Honestly, I would rather hope you are right and I have something fun to play in the EQ universe again.

But that happening is about the same chance I have at the Vikings winning the Super Bowl.
http://www.m8ball.com/index.php?answer=6296073


Will EQN be worth playing?
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Looks bad...

I'll add that nothing I've said precludes SOE from releasing a nifty game that they then proceed to nuke into unplayable through nerfs and post-release decisions/expansions.
 

Soygen

The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
<Nazi Janitors>
28,431
44,760
I didn't ask that question...




...I already know my clit is too big.