EQ Never

Just going by their track record, PvP has always been on the back burner. Iirc it was a long time before EQ2 even had a pvp server. Fun as hell, but I doubt there will be any real PvP to give a shit about on release (I don't count that BG crap as PvP).

Sythrak_sl said:

Just going by their track record, PvP has always been on the back burner. Iirc it was a long time before EQ2 even had a pvp server. Fun as hell, but I doubt there will be any real PvP to give a shit about on release (I don't count that BG crap as PvP).

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Evelight PvP in EQN over unobtanium on Odus. Ganking elsewhere will be heavily discouraged through massive faction losses (basically you become a mob).

No clue on FFA PvP servers.

Edit: I'll rephrase an earlier point - ForgeLight was made for massive battles therefore massive battles must ensue.

Please god just implement the VERY SIMPLE concept of having all abilities etc have 2 sets of variables. One PVP, one PVE....its not that fucking hard. I'm not asking for DIFFERENT pvp skills then pve skills, just design underlying architecture from the ground up to allow "tweaking" of abilities on a PVP and PVE basis. EQ2 actually had some of this functionality built into it. Then you can address individual abilities that may prove to be OP without effecting the other style of play and keeping the general flow of the characters the same in pvp or pve. This eliminates all "balancing" concerns outside of very fundemental design elements (if my class does mainly support in PVE how do I become useful in pvp etc).

There I just solved the mystery ruining a decade worth of MMO's. Splendid, next maybe we'll take a stab at cancer...or maybe "how do we actually improve the spork"...you know actually challenging issues. Example of above idea...pyro mage does as expected dps in PVE but his ability for extremely high burst with fairly minimum down time to prep again is making him OP in PVP. Option A, tweak pvp spell version to put the high burst spell on a longer cool down, or option B to keep rotations similar to pve lower damage of said burst spell, or option C) put a debuff tied to said high burst spell that reduces the damage of it over the next two spells.

Simple shit like that could have prevented years of unneeded nerfs or buffs in Rift, WoW and god knows what else. I just don't get why this is so hard....it still leaves the issue of having to design classes with a pve and pvp role in mind but outside of general abilities and class gimmick/mechanics this would make it so much easier to manage.

Oh god I just had a flash back of my first pvp experience in MMO's.....monk vs wizard in EQ classic back when there were only a few of us with ice comet. Step 1 pray /root worked, Step 2 /cast ice comet, Step 3....go pet the Cat while 8 seconds passed to cast ice comet and stop at church to pray the monk didn't resist the spell Step 4...laugh at poor monk (introduce TS staff to mix shortly into Kunark and it was much more simplified /laugh at wizard over and over...)

Turbo_sl said:

Please god just implement the VERY SIMPLE concept of having all abilities etc have 2 sets of variables. One PVP, one PVE....its not that fucking hard.

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Why? PvP should be rock-paper-scissors and horribly unbalanced one-on-one. Attempting to balance PvP is one of the things that fucked up WoW.

superconducting_sl said:

Stuff.

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I forgot my manners. Hi Smed or Smed underling, welcome to rerolled.

tad10_sl said:

Why? PvP should be rock-paper-scissors and horribly unbalanced one-on-one. Attempting to balance PvP is one of the things that fucked up WoW.

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You're powerful stupid, son. He's talking about making PvP and PvE balance entirely seperate things.

superconducting_sl said:

I'm a little surprised how quickly people believed that everything will be instanced and ruin the game. The reality is that we still have no idea how SOE will handle things and it is way too early to make judgements.

I see absolutely NO way SOE would shoot themselves in the foot by making ALL PvP instanced. There has got be some primary form of PvP in place that's either open-world or area-limited or otherwise. Same goes for dungeons- there will surely be plenty of officially-created dungeons located in the world to explore. And rest assured, the entire world will probably be ever-changing, adaptable, moldable, and destructible.

The instanced PvP/dungeons mentioned are almost certainly just ADDITIONAL PLAYER-created content (battleground or dungeon maps). Such non-professional, non-moderated content likely has to be instanced because (a) there is simply no room for it all on the world and (b) it would have way too much potential for abuse. There is just no other viable way of doing it. Plus there may even be certain advantages to instanced battlegrounds- like maybe you can create your own rules that would have otherwise not been possible on the Norrathian landmass - things like teams, capture-the-flag, duels, who knows?

As for housing, again the instancing does not mean it's ALL instanced. For example: there could be a limited number of houses available in the persistent world in addition to instanced housing. Or there could be instanced plots that contain several houses. Remember, SOE has plenty of experience with housing from EQ2, so I have to imagine they know what they're doing and would not simply take the easy way out.

Bottom line is we just don't know yet until reveal. And SOE certainly still knew how to keep the GOOD secrets away from the public.

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Well yes, it is the player-made content we're talking about, but in a game that's billing itself as a sandbox, that's kind of a big deal. A sandbox is supposed to allow the players to shape the game world, but if all the "sandbox elements" take place in instances, rather than in the actual game world, then they aren't really sandbox elements, and the game isn't really a sandbox. That would be more than slightly disappointing, considering how much they've been talking up the game as "the world's greatest sandbox".

Doing a quick google image search of "pauldrons" there is such a huge variety of things that could give style to armor without including GIANT shoulder pads. Even to make them fancier they could start you out simple, leather, work up to some beat up bronze then eventually some nice fine steel. Improving even further they could have visible glowing runes or etched symbols and designs, maybe architecture could be on them such as faces or wings or claws like a sculpture or a gargoyle.

I don't care much for the big shoulder pads even if they do show off lots of flare, I think EQ has a more subtle style and some of the things I mentioned should be able to be incorporated without losing out on the ability to show off. Helms are still a great source of showing flare, and EQ has always been great with their weaponry, I can only hope they don't follow WoWs lead here.

The shoulder pad issue is strange too, but its one of those things that is such a trademark of Blizzard that seeing it in our sacred EverQuest leaves a foul taste in our mouths.

Randin_sl said:

Well yes, it is the player-made content we're talking about, but in a game that's billing itself as a sandbox, that's kind of a big deal. A sandbox is supposed to allow the players to shape the game world, but if all the "sandbox elements" take place in instances, rather than in the actual game world, then they aren't really sandbox elements, and the game isn't really a sandbox. That would be more than slightly disappointing, considering how much they've been talking up the game as "the world's greatest sandbox".

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You realize superconducting is probably from SOE? And he just said there wouldn't be a lot of instances except for player made content.

tad10_sl said:

You realize superconducting is probably from SOE? And he just said there wouldn't be a lot of instances except for player made content.

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His response was a very official type of read. I almost felt like I was reading patch notes that had some what ifs and stuff in it. Pls tell me there is open world pvp and an incentive for players to group and not want to take more than 5 because you lose exp type of stuff. You should want to invite everyone to your group for some type of bonus. As well as group content being better. No one should want to solo or duo over grouping.

tad10_sl said:

I'm going to SOE live. Furious, do you have a question you would like me to ask?.

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Why yes Tad, I would love it if you could ask a question for me. Ask them if they will have a playable first person view with a proper field of vision. I hated the fact I couldn't scroll into 1st person in GW2.

rolx_sl said:

His response was a very official type of read. I almost felt like I was reading patch notes that had some what ifs and stuff in it.

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Yep the comments that the "world would be ever-changing, adaptable, modable and destructible" and reasons for putting player made BGS in instances could only come from inside the black-box.

This is your real leak gentlemen. Note that it doesn't dispute Flip's player-content is instance, but instead gives the reason why that is instanced and SOE content is not.

We can skip Friday. Open the champagne, EQN really is a sandbox.

Furious_sl said:

Why yes Tad, I would love it if you could ask a question for me. Ask them if they will have a playable first person view with a proper field of vision. I hated the fact I couldn't scroll into 1st person in GW2.

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You're better off asking superconducting, but send me a pm and I'll add it to the list. Going to lose it in this thread otherwise and can't alter the soe almost live thread.

Furious_sl said:

Ask them if they will have a playable first person view with a proper field of vision.

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I second this question.

Turbo_sl said:

Please god just implement the VERY SIMPLE concept of having all abilities etc have 2 sets of variables. One PVP, one PVE....its not that fucking hard. I'm not asking for DIFFERENT pvp skills then pve skills, just design underlying architecture from the ground up to allow "tweaking" of abilities on a PVP and PVE basis. EQ2 actually had some of this functionality built into it. Then you can address individual abilities that may prove to be OP without effecting the other style of play and keeping the general flow of the characters the same in pvp or pve. This eliminates all "balancing" concerns outside of very fundemental design elements (if my class does mainly support in PVE how do I become useful in pvp etc).

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They kinda did that in EQ. Spells only did 2/3 damage on players, and certain spells were later capped to like 66%, or was it 75%, of a player's max hp. They also made some spells do nothing in pvp like charm and fear. At least that was on the pvp servers. I think it was different in duels on the blue servers.

tad10_sl said:

You realize superconducting is probably from SOE? And he just said there wouldn't be a lot of instances except for player made content.

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Also, his punctuation is too good to be from these parts. I think chumming the reddit waters worked!

I like the thought that end dungeon raid bosses will be the instanced part. Thats smart, it lets you get away with everyone int he same dungeon minus poopsocking. Theres no possible way there is going to be one mega server. The dungeons would be completely over packed theres no way it would work out.

tad10_sl said:

Edit2: Also superconducting is an SOE plant and he says there will be in-world PvP.

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Not really sure what that means but I'll take it
But you know I've just got to be right.
Nobody can really think SOE would be so foolish as to make ALL PvP instanced.

Remember these words:
- Smedley: "it will be the largest sandbox-style mmo ever designed"
- McPherson: "we avoid bad design decisions" in response to non-consensual PvP
- Smedley: "I agree wholeheartedly" in response to "A sandbox game needs conflict to drive the economy, which means open-world PvP and risk/reward."
- Dave Georgeson: "We made big old lists about what we loved about MMOs, what we hated about MMOs, and then this shorter list that was all the holy grails that we always wanted to conquer."
- And last but not least- EQ2 has servers with open-world PvP and battlegrounds!

SOE knows precisely what they're doing.

Caliel_sl said:

They kinda did that in EQ. Spells only did 2/3 damage on players, and certain spells were later capped to like 66%, or was it 75%, of a player's max hp. They also made some spells do nothing in pvp like charm and fear. At least that was on the pvp servers. I think it was different in duels on the blue servers.

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They capped spell damage to 40% Trust me, when I saw anyone at 39% harm touch was spamming.