yeah, this game was my last hope, but quite frankly, i think one of the professional teams from cleveland might win a championship before another good MMO is made.
EQ Never
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Absolutely no skill in hoping your spell doesn't break, and if your spell doesn't break you trivialize the content with splitting.
We're talking about 2 completely different things here unfortunately. It seems that WoW has basically just become a raiding game. That's all people talk about any more. And I am sure you are right, I'm sure the lamers only get to see the basic stuff, and only the best get to see the best of it.
But when I talk about MMO's I am talking about the entire journey, and hopefully, doing random groups with complete strangers, in really dangerous dungeons that cause endless nightmarish problems (mobs running through walls, bad pathing, failed lulls, broken mezzes etc), and everyone is not raid geared - so one broken mez leads to a caster getting beaten on by a mob which is death in like 4 seconds.
When I talk about people getting handed things, I'm talking about butchering that whole thing. You can't break mezzes anymore because things get turned in to a sheep. Invis doesn't randomly break when you are running through a room full of mobs. Tanks can aggro entire groups of mobs now so they can be pew pewed down by AoE etc...
In other words, yeah the super tuned raid content might be a finely balanced game of forcing people to stand in the right place and press the right buttons, but the actual world itself is very child proofed, and there is no random dangerous shit that people have to deal with by being clever, thinking fast, and experienced with the game.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 7,277
- 2,304
It's called progression, you don't just jump into the top tier of whatever activity you do, you have to work up to it. Just like this game. You won't be jumping into tier5 content right away, you will be starting with tier1 which is the easiest. So you might as well quit now.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,903
- 6,889
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 7,277
- 2,304
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,903
- 6,889
Lol, you can make challenging content without forcing people to play months of faceroll beforehand. Just tune the mobs a bit tougher for one thing.
I think they know what they want to do, it is just they have not implemented any of it yet. That means they don't know if their ideas will work due to balance reasons or it being too buggy. They are being noncommittal because they don't want to promise us something that they can't deliver.
guess u can modify the posts per page. Im on whatever default is so there is 666 pages.
The skill came when your lull fails and 7+ mobs come charging at you. A good group can actually survive that shit, a bad group can ALL die. And yeah, if splitting works, it's smooth sailing, but in other games that's ALL it is. At least EQ often had occasions when when things went really wrong - that's the point.
Come and play EQ Mac, it's alright! Not perfect but beats... nothing. And yeah that 50 hours of Eve tutorials is something I'm starting to think of about now.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
- 20,314
- 86,199
Tad,
Thanks for all the info! Thanks Ambi, Teekey, Grim, and a few other posters for helping me wade through the past 20 pages of derp. Whew, what a load of garbage posts to wade through. I liked the salty tears for a little while but then the circle jerk between about 6-8 posters who didn't realize EQN wasn't EQ 1 reskinned just got old extremely fast.
Derp, derp holy trinity is the only way to play a MMO. Mob AI isn't supposed to evolve in 15 years at all! Tanks are only there for taunt, casters for Cheal and then DPS! That is the only way I can play the game! Forget original EQ having mezz, slow,etc and other abilities to alleviate the need for the HOLY TRINITY or help the trinity barely survive at times. Healers actually being a part of the battle?! Tanks using more than taunt and DC?! WTHF!! Mob going after the guy keeping me from dying? WTF! I even was using my Blade of Massive Taunt!Using basic real world tactics as the basis for an argument how a game with dragons and cat people is supposed to work? WTF?!
I want to play Caste, the Indian game of rigid classes! Where if I want to learn a new skill with my main or try something different than I am fucked because that's not old school enough for the neckbeards. My identity isn't Zzeris the amazing player who has learned 10 different classes and can play most of them quite well. I want to be known as a good healer with nothing else attached! If I fuck up it must have been the damn chanter's fault! Broaden my horizons? WTF?! Is this 2013 or what? I can't be bothered to multi-class. That's a bit excessive right?
Derp, derp if permadeath isn't in with corpse run YET(or at all)then this is WoW faceroll all over again. Derp, derp, if a game with destructible environs isn't photo realistic like thishttp://everquest.allakhazam.com/gall...a/alpha-15.jpgthen it must be for the kiddies! Naysaying and repeating the same old predictions ad nauseam in this forum isn't exactly being a trendsetter here. Felt like I waded through all 900 or so of Qwerty's posts to find the one good one(still haven't found it).
Thanks for all the info! Thanks Ambi, Teekey, Grim, and a few other posters for helping me wade through the past 20 pages of derp. Whew, what a load of garbage posts to wade through. I liked the salty tears for a little while but then the circle jerk between about 6-8 posters who didn't realize EQN wasn't EQ 1 reskinned just got old extremely fast.
Derp, derp holy trinity is the only way to play a MMO. Mob AI isn't supposed to evolve in 15 years at all! Tanks are only there for taunt, casters for Cheal and then DPS! That is the only way I can play the game! Forget original EQ having mezz, slow,etc and other abilities to alleviate the need for the HOLY TRINITY or help the trinity barely survive at times. Healers actually being a part of the battle?! Tanks using more than taunt and DC?! WTHF!! Mob going after the guy keeping me from dying? WTF! I even was using my Blade of Massive Taunt!Using basic real world tactics as the basis for an argument how a game with dragons and cat people is supposed to work? WTF?!
I want to play Caste, the Indian game of rigid classes! Where if I want to learn a new skill with my main or try something different than I am fucked because that's not old school enough for the neckbeards. My identity isn't Zzeris the amazing player who has learned 10 different classes and can play most of them quite well. I want to be known as a good healer with nothing else attached! If I fuck up it must have been the damn chanter's fault! Broaden my horizons? WTF?! Is this 2013 or what? I can't be bothered to multi-class. That's a bit excessive right?
Derp, derp if permadeath isn't in with corpse run YET(or at all)then this is WoW faceroll all over again. Derp, derp, if a game with destructible environs isn't photo realistic like thishttp://everquest.allakhazam.com/gall...a/alpha-15.jpgthen it must be for the kiddies! Naysaying and repeating the same old predictions ad nauseam in this forum isn't exactly being a trendsetter here. Felt like I waded through all 900 or so of Qwerty's posts to find the one good one(still haven't found it).
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
Yes it's 'difficult' because mobs are tuned to be difficult to solo. A mob has X hp and hits for Y damage, I only have Z hp and hit for W damage. But it's not exactly difficult to sit there and auto attack a monster.
Difficulty was born from player ingenuity, not because the game demanded precise mechanics like the most difficult content in modern MMOs does. I think that's the point.
There is true difficulty and test of skill in EverQuest, but it was mostly in really pushing the boundaries and trying to do completely crazy things. For example, after Fading Memories came out, another Bard and I could pull raid bosses to some zone-ins (without clearing a single mob) with some extreme coordination. I could also kite entire zones and charm-kill mobs, there was absolutely no room for error. These are tests of difficulty that I truly appreciated, but I certainly wasn't required to do these to meet the basic requirements of playing the game. In most raids my Bard just stared at a wall or auto-followed someone while spamming 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5 for hours on end. Groups could be difficult, but again that was mostly a self-imposed challenged. I wanted to chain pull, have a mezzed mob waiting to be killed at all times, all while keeping every buff up. Most groups were hardly that efficient, though. Once a camp's spawns were staggered, it was most just waiting for them to spawn and pulling a solo mob.
You do realize that he is bitching about class balance a year+ before we will even see the game right? Makes sense...
Cantatus
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,437
- 79
I'm really doubting everything will die in 2 seconds when the game comes out. GW2's promo videos showed thingsdying in one or two hits, but that obviously hasn't been true with release. At this point, they're just showing off animations. MMO combat is generally pretty boring to watch, so I can see where they'd just speed through the fights.
It's possible, but I am sure everything will die in 2 seconds. And when I played GW2 (after beta 3 and beyond), stuff did die more or less like that promo video.
Madikus
Knows nothing.
- 356
- 301
Why does being casual automatically make you a pussy? This is the only recurring theme I've gotten out of the last 80 or so pages...News flash, it's a video game. You sit at a computer and push keys or click mouse buttons. Goddamn, I clicked faster and in better order than you, I'm a superior being to you now. (I can see it making sense in eSports, where there's real life personal gain at stake, but in an MMO?)
Instead of calling someone a faggot or a pussy because they have an opinion that differs from yours, why not be constructive and add to a positive conversation? We want positive change yet most posts in this thread (and pretty much every thread about every game ever) are negative towards some game, person or studio. Everyone is so busy busting each others balls in the name of superiority they lose sight of almost everything else.
I personally commend SOE for not reskinning EQ1 (and for the record, I personally think Smed is pretty slimy). This coming from someone who is actively playing on P99 with the "hardcore" crowd. Guess what, it's not that hard, and I'm doing some of the hardest stuff you could do pre-velious. Does that make me a badass? IMO no, it makes me a nerd with a passion for a game and a community that I contribute to in a positive way. I've done my homework, I know how to be effective and I socialize well.
I personally have nothing to contribute to a games development. I have never worked in the industry or shipped a game (also, how many of you here have?) I contribute by playing the games I enjoy and supporting them both financially and by word of mouth.
I enjoy every game that I play, if I don't, I don't play it. If I do enjoy it, I encourage others to try it. Pretty simple stuff.
So does playing a hardcore game (EQ Classic) by this threads standards casually and successfully make me a "pussy"? If it does, I don't really care. At the end of the day it's still just a game.
PS - I think there are actually some positive posts mixed in here too. Keep it up!
Instead of calling someone a faggot or a pussy because they have an opinion that differs from yours, why not be constructive and add to a positive conversation? We want positive change yet most posts in this thread (and pretty much every thread about every game ever) are negative towards some game, person or studio. Everyone is so busy busting each others balls in the name of superiority they lose sight of almost everything else.
I personally commend SOE for not reskinning EQ1 (and for the record, I personally think Smed is pretty slimy). This coming from someone who is actively playing on P99 with the "hardcore" crowd. Guess what, it's not that hard, and I'm doing some of the hardest stuff you could do pre-velious. Does that make me a badass? IMO no, it makes me a nerd with a passion for a game and a community that I contribute to in a positive way. I've done my homework, I know how to be effective and I socialize well.
I personally have nothing to contribute to a games development. I have never worked in the industry or shipped a game (also, how many of you here have?) I contribute by playing the games I enjoy and supporting them both financially and by word of mouth.
I enjoy every game that I play, if I don't, I don't play it. If I do enjoy it, I encourage others to try it. Pretty simple stuff.
So does playing a hardcore game (EQ Classic) by this threads standards casually and successfully make me a "pussy"? If it does, I don't really care. At the end of the day it's still just a game.
PS - I think there are actually some positive posts mixed in here too. Keep it up!
Randin
Trakanon Raider
- 1,932
- 891
So, to break up the angst wanking (wangsting?) around here a bit, I'll say I'm generally liking what they've told and shown us of EQN so far; obviously, all of it depends on whether or not SOE can actually pull off what they're talking about, but the concepts they're presenting largely sound good to me.
The only thing I'm not really liking is the ease with which you can swap out classes. The multiclassing by slotting in other classes' skills into the secondary slots is fine, but I don't like that you can apparently just swap out your primary class on-the-fly. I'd like it if that part of your character had at least a little more permanence; at minimum, make the player go back to town and talk with a class trainer to change your primary class. Ideally, I'd go even further, and make changing your primary class something on a similar scale to the betrayal quests from eq2: it's an option, but it requires effort, and likely isn't something you'll do on a whim.
Hopefully that'll come up in their round table discussions at some point.
The only thing I'm not really liking is the ease with which you can swap out classes. The multiclassing by slotting in other classes' skills into the secondary slots is fine, but I don't like that you can apparently just swap out your primary class on-the-fly. I'd like it if that part of your character had at least a little more permanence; at minimum, make the player go back to town and talk with a class trainer to change your primary class. Ideally, I'd go even further, and make changing your primary class something on a similar scale to the betrayal quests from eq2: it's an option, but it requires effort, and likely isn't something you'll do on a whim.
Hopefully that'll come up in their round table discussions at some point.
Rope
Silver Knight of the Realm
- 527
- 101
Just read 550 pages of people talking about all of the cool old school eq shit they are looking forward to and another 150 pages of people tossing all of that out of the fucking window because NEW BLUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHGGGGRRRGGGSSDDWDAEGAB.
Why bother making a game 30% of you will love and 70% of you will hate when they can just make a fucking game that 30% of you will hate but still buy. :|
Cantatus
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,437
- 79
The problem with how developers address the Holy Trinity issue is that they focus on the classes peopledoplay rather than the characters peopledon'tplay. Instead of looking at the roles that people want in their groups and spreading all those abilities around in some kumbaya attempt to make everyone special, they should look at why other roles are often viewed as undesirable and work to make them more appealing.
Because the same thing they're doing to the roles in the trinity is going to be exactly what happened to the crowd control role. Remember when that was part of the trinity? In EverQuest (which I believe is where the term originated), the trinity was Tank+Healer+CC. Somewhere along the line, developers decided to take a cleaver to the CC role and spread it around piecemeal to the other roles. Rather than that making CC more useful, it just turned it into a unnecessary gimmick. GW2 is proving the same thing with how they approached healing.