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Seananigans

Honorary Shit-PhD
<Gold Donor>
13,703
34,231
Lots of rage was had and I made a Bubba Gump joke.

To play devils advocate to the "40 classes sound diverse, but we'll end up optimizing a handful" I say, maybe not.

People keep forgetting there is no xp. There is no reason you have to really optimize. If your adventuring the lands and what not, and tier 2 Druids have access to SoW, then you may decide that's what you want. You may want tier 2 bard speed, so you work on that - now, you have a low lvl movement speed alteration, so do you continue on these paths or start working on dat backstab? How will it effect your Druid buddies ?

THIS CAN STILL BE COOL PEOPLE JUST FORGET ABOUT THE LION AND MYBE THERE'S A CHANCE

Also depends highly on how obfuscated stuff like DPS outputs are. Personally (this might not be the game to do it in, though) I'm all for trying something that makes it nigh impossible for players to discern THE optimal skills/equipment to use.
 

Caeden

Golden Baronet of the Realm
7,581
12,535
How do you do that without either A. putting no indication of power on gear or B. not having any type of combat log?

Even if you make it non-parseable but have the scrolling text, some nerd will tediously go through it.
 

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,299
86,111
The Holy Trinity has the same problems everyone seems to have with the new system. If your healer sucks, how much content do you really get through? Tank can't hold aggro, how much? The only reason the new system by Arenanet didn't work is because the game was set to faceroll easy from day 1. You want to be top notch raider guy? Learn how to do the new system. The new system could work so why shit on it so early? Where did the devs say that this is a rewrite of GW2? Why would they want that?

It's sad that many people here don't want possibly evolutionary games. They want reskinned EQ where the vast majority of the servers would be empty and merged within months. If the game wanted here was feasible, SOMEONE would have done it by now. It isn't, plain and simple. It's not Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden, whatever. It's an MMO. That a very, very small group of people want but may not subscribe to long-term honestly. Look at the fickle back and forth over the past 50 pages. We all know everyone will try it and then guys like Ut and Qwerty will slam it while keeping said game installed. Seriously, for all the hate, many people here still picked up every single WoW expansion ON RELEASE.

I also want to completely shit on Lithose's theory here. Mankind didn't have healer support in the back, tanks up front and DPS scattered about while we fought 'dragons'. Different strategies have been used depending on the weapons available and the skill of the leaders. The Holy Trinity is the best system for 'games' used for the past decade but it's laughable to think it's an evolutionary tactic of mankind. It's also sad that people aren't excited to maybe try to do more than extremely simple basic things in their games. The genre NEEDS to evolve badly.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
This is why I'm mad more than anything else.

"Qeynos, the Mos Eisley of Norrath, is under siege by Orcs. Now, the Humans and their allies, the wise masters of strategy, the Ogres, must band together to fend them off. Be a Tempest, or a Miner, the adventure is yours!"

rrr_img_39031.jpg
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
This is why I'm mad more than anything else.

"Qeynos, the Mos Eisley of Norrath, is under siege by Orcs. Now, the Humans and their allies, the wise masters of strategy, the Ogres, must band together to fend them off. Be a Tempest, or a Miner, the adventure is yours!"

rrr_img_39031.jpg
the thing that makes you mad is the thing you gotta let go though.
 

Xarpolis

Life's a Dream
14,655
16,347
I was trying to read all of the various posts in this thread. I was up to page 566, which was from the 2nd. Now 2 days later you have 100 fucking new pages? No thank you. I'm done reading about EQN, I'll just wait for the game.
 
6,216
8
I was trying to read all of the various posts in this thread. I was up to page 566, which was from the 2nd. Now 2 days later you have 100 fucking new pages? No thank you. I'm done reading about EQN, I'll just wait for the game.
the trick is just follow the last page
 

Ryanz

<Banned>
18,901
52,944
I was trying to read all of the various posts in this thread. I was up to page 566, which was from the 2nd. Now 2 days later you have 100 fucking new pages? No thank you. I'm done reading about EQN, I'll just wait for the game.
Why on earth would you torture yourself so?
 

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
The Holy Trinity has the same problems everyone seems to have with the new system. If your healer sucks, how much content do you really get through? Tank can't hold aggro, how much? The only reason the new system by Arenanet didn't work is because the game was set to faceroll easy from day 1. You want to be top notch raider guy? Learn how to do the new system. The new system could work so why shit on it so early? Where did the devs say that this is a rewrite of GW2? Why would they want that?

It's sad that many people here don't want possibly evolutionary games. They want reskinned EQ where the vast majority of the servers would be empty and merged within months. If the game wanted here was feasible, SOMEONE would have done it by now. It isn't, plain and simple. It's not Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden, whatever. It's an MMO. That a very, very small group of people want but may not subscribe to long-term honestly. Look at the fickle back and forth over the past 50 pages. We all know everyone will try it and then guys like Ut and Qwerty will slam it while keeping said game installed. Seriously, for all the hate, many people here still picked up every single WoW expansion ON RELEASE.

I also want to completely shit on Lithose's theory here. Mankind didn't have healer support in the back, tanks up front and DPS scattered about while we fought 'dragons'. Different strategies have been used depending on the weapons available and the skill of the leaders. The Holy Trinity is the best system for 'games' used for the past decade but it's laughable to think it's an evolutionary tactic of mankind. It's also sad that people aren't excited to maybe try to do more than extremely simple basic things in their games. The genre NEEDS to evolve badly.
How complex and fun do you think a combat system can be when you're trying to coordinate the efforts of several people in a 3d space? Using single-player combat behavior wouldn't be intuitive in an mmo. Can you imagine 6 people in your party rolling around on the ground, trying to dodge stuff while using "collision" to block enemy attacks?
 

Menion_sl

shitlord
267
0
I was trying to read all of the various posts in this thread. I was up to page 566, which was from the 2nd. Now 2 days later you have 100 fucking new pages? No thank you. I'm done reading about EQN, I'll just wait for the game.
I just skim it for links to videos and information that I missed. The content of the last 100 pages is really not worth the effort of reading.
 

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,299
86,111
Supertouch,

you may be right for an old system of combat. Why the fuck do all the mobs just sit there while you pull one at a time? Because that is what worked but it sounds ridiculous when you think about it. One on one combat is exactly what would happen when a group of 5-6 meets another group of 5-6. One on two or three is probably what would happen if 6 met 12. Only in situations where a massive boss appears would the 5-6 in the group need a focused effort. Then a variation of the Holy Trinity sounds good. But the boss isn't going to sit there exchanging pleasantries with the massively armored guy while one guy fries his balls off. If you fry his balls, you better be able to dodge Maybe only stabbing him in the asshole is sufficient to get him back off. That makes more sense. Yelling 'your mother is a whore' just shouldn't be the standard at this point. Let's see if we can evolve.

6 people would probably surround a single mob and spreading out is a good idea on all fronts. We also don't need complete realism in a fantasy game do we? If two people dodge and collision allows them to pass each other over, does that really ruin the immersion that much? In a game with voxel destruction?
 

Underjoyed_sl

shitlord
66
2
i'm paraphrasing here, but one of the guys on the panel explained their reason for making classes more flexible:

"we didn't want players to have to wait for their friends to log on."
this statement really shows the idiocy of people in charge of making modern MMORPGs. MMOs aren't there so you just play with friends. Theyre there for you to meat up and cooperate with complete strangers that, down the road, can become new friends. If all you want to do is play with your current group of 4 friends, play a fucking online game like TF2 or some shit like that. Catering to antisocial assholes is not what an MMO should be about.
 

Rod-138

Trakanon Raider
1,183
966
Azeth if I'm still alive when this game releases then I'm down to do some horizontal leveling. We will be first to the side my man
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,036
I also want to completely shit on Lithose's theory here. Mankind didn't have healer support in the back, tanks up front and DPS scattered about while we fought 'dragons'. Different strategies have been used depending on the weapons available and the skill of the leaders. The Holy Trinity is the best system for 'games' used for the past decade but it's laughable to think it's an evolutionary tactic of mankind. It's also sad that people aren't excited to maybe try to do more than extremely simple basic things in their games. The genre NEEDS to evolve badly.
Healing is an abstraction of logistics/command control/supply. Tactics has always been about forming a front line, with logistical supply in the rear.

Are you really arguing with this?

Edit: And just to expand, healing itself is an abstraction required because of how things like HP evolved to give people persistent characters. Hit points is an abstraction of luck and toughness and actual armies (Yes, armies, your character represents more than just himself--"real" "heroes" had armies), it's there because most "games" would be dumb if the hero wereactuallylike soldiers and got their heads cut off when the "monster" swung at them. The reality is, in real combat, entire soldiers are injured and then brought back behind the lines where they are "healed" in hospitals, or they get hungry/thirsty and their needs are met through supply lines---all these systems are abstracted down through Hit Points and then the resupply of Hit Points through "healing".

You people that talk about "evolutions!" in combat are myopic because you think it's some big revelation that combat shouldn't be a tank/healer paradigm. When in reality, your analysis is extremely narrow and completely insufficient if you really want to change games. Healing and tanks and the trinity evolved because they were the most effecient way to mimic real combat, given the constrained rules of a system in an RPG. You don't just pluck one out and say "Derp, now combat will be revolutionary!"

You have to examine WHY it was set up in the first place. Unfortunately we have tons of people like you that think "we der are no dwagons in the real world, so this stuff must have been just pulled from a developers ass! Tehee!"--You don't rationally examine the why, you just think "it needs to be different!" like some ADD fiend trying to satisfy his urge to do something new.

Come on, "shit" on my theories some more. Lets really pull back the curtain so we can see to what depth you've actually explored this thought process.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Healing is an abstraction of logistics/command control/supply. Tactics has always been about forming a front line, with logistical supply in the rear.

Are you really arguing with this?
There are Pointmen, Corpsman (Medics), Comm guys, Machinegunners, Assaultmen etc for a reason in real world infantry squads.

Warrior, Cleric, Utility, DPS
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
People need to stop meme'ing the F2P comments before their method of F2P is official it could easily be something like T1 limited without a sub where its a glorified trial for their F2P option - like EQ1 and 2 are currently outside of Test.
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
This is why I'm mad more than anything else.

"Qeynos, the Mos Eisley of Norrath, is under siege by Orcs. Now, the Humans and their allies, the wise masters of strategy, the Ogres, must band together to fend them off. Be a Tempest, or a Miner, the adventure is yours!"
Should be Freeport. Unless you're talking about "the wise masters of strategy, the Ogres," part.