EQ Never

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Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,338
11,637
slicedmass_sl said:
There is a lot to be said for trinity being in a game from 1999 and in a game that basically started the genre. It works no doubt but its archaic. The biggest problem is we all cannot imagine an implementation that works because none have yet, that doesn't mean one can't. The game they release could be complete and utter shit or could be the most compelling mmo experience ever. Time will tell.
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Not even. there are a TON of games that do not use the trinity. anything older then EQ pretty much..
Trinity as we know it now, is just pure laziness. Poor AI, and poor design, that reduced DnD from its far more robust class interaction, to tank, dps, healbot. NPC AI at the time couldn't possibly match a dungeon master controlling the NPCS. And of course devs that just didn't want to bother creating a more complex party system.
Like turning Chess into checkers.
 
Grim1

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,903
6,889
Menion_sl said:
It's not trust me. Say you stopped in town to sell or craft and had to stand around for 40 minutes because it was night time and all the merchants were closed. How cool is it then? It wasn't fun in FFXI.
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In the QandA they mentioned shop keepers not open at night, but perhaps shady types would be. I'm in your camp on this. Give me a 24 hour quicky mart.

Elurin_sl said:
You're actually missing the worst part of it. Since everyone can do everything AND you can level up your other classes with any class, that means there's no such thing as rolling on your class's items. So you're in a group and a sweet sword drops. Everyone's going after that fucker, cause even if they're not the tank, they're leveling one up as we speak!
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They addressed that in the QandA too. They said they have a solution for it and that we would be happy. We'll see.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Caliane_sl said:
Not even. there are a TON of games that do not use the trinity. anything older then EQ pretty much..
Trinity as we know it now, is just pure laziness. Poor AI, and poor design, that reduced DnD from its far more robust class interaction, to tank, dps, healbot. NPC AI at the time couldn't possibly match a dungeon master controlling the NPCS. And of course devs that just didn't want to bother creating a more complex party system.
Like turning Chess into checkers.
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rrr_img_39071.jpg


checkmate.
 
D

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Menion_sl said:
It's not trust me. Say you stopped in town to sell or craft and had to stand around for 40 minutes because it was night time and all the merchants were closed. How cool is it then? It wasn't fun in FFXI.
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It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to make sense.

Speaking of abstractions, look at the level of abstraction modern games have taken - we sacrifice every mechanic to this notion of 'fun' that everything that is supposed to be this 'fun' is no longer fun anymore.

Convenience is also not the same as fun. It's more exciting to have the shop closed and feel the world is alive to some extent: that its rules are wholly consistent and don't just exist for the convenience of the player.

That's more 'fun' than catering to the casual soccer mom Sally who expects the shop open because she has to make dinner in 30 minutes.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
39,450
129,881
Azeth_sl said:
EQN pretty much is ripping of Dig-Dug is my response to anyone saying they're "ripping off" any other games.
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I actually think they ripped this one off Terraria. You dig deeper and get to different areas, and you can use the dug up resources to build other shit.
 
Grumpus

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
Lol the devs would love that, every night cycle for the entire gamed history would see a rush of posts on the official games forum.

"Open the fucking mrtchants! Yourgame sucks!"
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,299
86,109
Dumar_sl said:
It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to make sense.

Speaking of abstractions, look at the level of abstraction modern games have taken - we sacrifice every mechanic to this notion of 'fun' that everything that is supposed to be this 'fun' is no longer fun anymore.

Convenience is also not the same as fun. It's more exciting to have the shop closed and feel the world is alive to some extent: that its rules are wholly consistent and don't just exist for the convenience of the player.

That's more 'fun' than catering to the casual soccer mom Sally who expects the shop open because she has to make dinner in 30 minutes.
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One of the few comments you've made I actually agree with. I want a world not convienence mart 24/7. That's part of what fucked up GW2. Look, that guy is taking a dump in a different area!! Let's give him some more exp for that accomplishment! He learned to mix flour and water! Let's give him a cooking level and level him at the same time! WHHHEEEEE!!!!!
 
Lithose

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,036
Caliane_sl said:
Not even. there are a TON of games that do not use the trinity. anything older then EQ pretty much..
Trinity as we know it now, is just pure laziness. Poor AI, and poor design, that reduced DnD from its far more robust class interaction, to tank, dps, healbot. NPC AI at the time couldn't possibly match a dungeon master controlling the NPCS. And of course devs that just didn't want to bother creating a more complex party system.
Like turning Chess into checkers.
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It's more than just AI, D&D was able to abstract things like time, too. So a healer could literally take wounded allies back to a place to recover, and that wouldn't suck. The trinity emerged because of many factors, poor AI was just one. Like I said, the trinity exists in a very nebulous form in the real world. We've abstracted down a lot of concepts into the game world to account for things like time, identity (Not being the soldier who dies), luck, toughness, tactics ect.

It's a big scope. If it's dumb for the AI to not go after healers, because in D&D they would--then it must also be dumb for a warrior not to block a hallway to limit surrounds, or various other elements that have been abstracted down into games (Like hell, even the need for fights are sometimes abstracted. In a D&D campaign 20th level god king should technically be able to die from a thief cutting his throat--but we don't abstract that into video games because a Rogue killing Emporer Seru wouldn't really be epic.)

So, developers really need to tackle this from the ground up, otherwise it's dumb.
 
Z

Zuuljin

Bronze Knight of the Realm
143
0
Dumar_sl said:
It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to make sense.

Speaking of abstractions, look at the level of abstraction modern games have taken - we sacrifice every mechanic to this notion of 'fun' that everything that is supposed to be this 'fun' is no longer fun anymore.

Convenience is also not the same as fun. It's more exciting to have the shop closed and feel the world is alive to some extent: that its rules are wholly consistent and don't just exist for the convenience of the player.

That's more 'fun' than catering to the casual soccer mom Sally who expects the shop open because she has to make dinner in 30 minutes.
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I completely agree but I think there can be a middle ground. Maybe the shops that are open during the day give the best deals, but if you must sell now, you can go to the local bar that's open all night, or the shady 24 hour pawn shop, but you will get a much reduced return on your goods. Maybe being a good customer at the bar or pawn shop though will open up other opportunities not available to those normal people who shop during the day. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing.
 
Grim1

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,903
6,889
zzeris_sl said:
One of the few comments you've made I actually agree with. I want a world not convienence mart 24/7. That's part of what fucked up GW2. Look, that guy is taking a dump in a different area!! Let's give him some more exp for that accomplishment! He learned to mix flour and water! Let's give him a cooking level and level him at the same time! WHHHEEEEE!!!!!
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Lol, pretty big jump from 24 hour quicky mart to your scenario. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other.

It makes sense to have a merchant who is open at all hours but only has very common items that perhaps cost more. Like a 24 hour quicky mart. Merchants are about profit. That is a profitable niche in any world.

You can bet that if merchants are only open during a set period of the day and the items they have a commonly needed then EQ will change it very fast. "Denial of Service" is one of their catch phrases for a reason.
 
Rabkorik

Rabkorik

Silver Knight of the Realm
158
39
How soon until this gets created in Landmark? (I haven't been reading all of the thread, sorry if it's been posted)

rrr_img_39073.jpg
 
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