EQ Never

Teekey_sl said:

I think content should be designed around 6 group members, 12 raid members, and 24-30 raid members.

Honestly 72+ is a fucking pain in the ass. BUT this is where I can see Rallying Calls really creating epic raids, because it's sort of a calling for the entire server to gather and do together.

Personally, I would really like to see some truly epic Rallying Call Raid Mobs/Events. And in fact, I think they should be one-time server events that go along with the Lore. Everyone who participates gets rewarded in some fashion, perhaps a few lucky people get extra bonuses. Once that boss is dead, they never return. They can be like Sleeper-style events, but if you miss one, there will be more down the line.

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The main reason I'm going to follow the development of this is the hope that Storybricks can simulate what I've always hoped MMOs would be - GMs generating and pushing spontaneous content/events.

Erronius_sl said:

Fuck I'm still 50 pages back

It won't stop me from trying it, but part of me feels like if I wanted to play something with LOL combat, then I'd play LOL. It would be easy to debate this back and forth (like the last 100+ pages) but that's just my gut reaction.

I don't think the char models are a big deal but I really wish that they'd take a cue from EQ1 and include some low-end models, models that if not pre-Luclin at least hearken back to them somewhat. I imagine that using the actual EQ1 pre-luclin models would be a no-go from the angle of animations (at the very least), but surely they could have one of their many devs spend a few days throwing some low poly, low res models in. My feeling is that I ran my graphics on the lowest settings 99% of the time in both prior EQs for performance, the least they could do is throw us a bone here. Because dollars to donuts they're going to have another client that is going to be a motherfucker in the graphics department and run like dogshit, so the least they could do is give us some legacy models from the outset to use when we inevitably crank the graphic settings down.

I fully anticipate at least one person with first hand knowledge of char models and animation to give me a tongue lashing for the above, but as Camerous would say: /shrug

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Upside of a PS4 release is if it runs at all on a PS4 then a PC will destroy it. Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about performance, this isn't their first game using this engine after all.

Hadnt seen the male avatar in video before this short clip.

Felmega_sl said:

Hadnt seen the male avatar in video before this short clip.

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There are a couple little clips of the human male in the class panel video as well, in various armor.

Anyone having issues registering for beta? I keep getting an error message stating " Registration Failed" sorry there was an error in your registration process.

Dude teekey,your avatar looks straight out of shrek or that newer rapunzel movie.

cinge_sl said:

Dude teekey,your avatar looks straight out of shrek or that newer rapunzel movie.

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Erronius_sl said:

That logic doesn't make sense.

"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [art direction], this isn't their first [MMO] using [art] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [character models], this isn't their first [MMO] using [character models] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [class roles], this isn't their first [MMO] using [classes] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [cash shops], this isn't their first [MMO] using [cash shops] after all."

And remember, this is SOE - just when you think they've gone and done something outstanding, they somehow manage to shit in their own mouth. Not to mention that they're adding a bunch of other shit to it such as voxels, and frankly I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there are a bunch of issues that don't get ironed out until a couple of years post release, at the earliest. I mean you MIGHT be right, maybe the performance will be spectacular, but having used the engine (once?) before isn't a predictor of future success with it.

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You are right and I think that's why I have hopes for this game.

Everquest was cool because they kinda fucked up and made cool shit by accident. I think that is what we might get here.

Something great because they are SO incompetent that the stuff that wasn't supposed to be in the game is awesome.

I like the art direction, the rest will work itself out.

Wasn't this shit supposed to be extremely close to beta months ago according to Smed? And weren't there publications saying they saw a sneak preview and it was supposed to be incredible a long time ago as well?

I have some additional info that changes some things this is mostly but not all from Dev Brunch (Friends telling me what was said, I wasn't there so possibly some phone game data corruption ;-) ):

PVP
-Latest is there is no PvP (or maybe just super limited PvP like an Arena) on Norrath (the main continent). There is PvP associated with EQN and exactly how it is being implemented will be announced next year, I'm not going to speculate heavily. Maybe on an entirely separate unannounced continent? Maybe totally instanced? I don't know. Mea culpa for misunderstanding what was going on. By way of clarification, there were lots of unintentionally dropped hints of stuff at SOE Live (especially at the pool party ;-)), so I guess I went too far based on one of those without getting clarification.

Edit: I'm going to standby my LOLMMO comment. You will be fighting each other LOLstyle somehow in this game. I just don't know how that's going to happen. We find out next year.

That said, there will still be some KOS factions, but those would be EQLike (i.e. guards kill you if you walk into Neriak and you're a high elf - not that neriak is in eqn, it's an example).

PVE
-There will be a lot more static PvE content (Rallying Calls, Authored Content, Static Dungeons & Raids) than has been talked about or I had thought was the case. They may talk sandbox but SOE is making a bunch of stuff to do. Bottomline EQN is PvE focused (see my PvP comment above).

Combat Example
-The example I gave of combat is reasonably accurate as of today (things can change). But what I was told seems to differ from McPherson's tweet. I was told that they are getting rid of needing to form a group by finding 1 cleric, 1 tank and 1 DPS/CC because everyone will, in time, have access to those classes (support/healing class, heavy armor class, dps/cc class) and can fill those roles if necessary.

So I think Talisker is being disingenuous with the quote because not only was what I was told just confirmed again, but the various SB combat AI slides/PP around on the Internet support my example. So yes, you don't need the Trinity, because everyone will have access to multiple classes and group formation becomes: "I'll tank/dps this time around, you dps/off-tank and you stay behind us and heal/support and/or range dps" and everyone then selects an appropriate class from their owned classes and an appropriate loadout. What's gone is taunting (obviously this is the big one), pure healers (the other big one) and the need for a specific class, so we'll see how that works out with the AI.

I can see issues like etchazz pointed out. You and your buddy start out as dps classes without defense (healing) abilities, seems like you'll have to buy a ton of healing pots unless you meet up with a healing class early on ;-)

EQ3
-The two scrapped versions of the game were not WoWlike as has been reported. At least one was the hardcore EQ3 some of us were looking for (this is not speculation, confirmed at the Dev Brunch). Sorry etchazz.

-EQN Devs are aware of the "concern" over the class/combat mechanics (again confirmed at Dev Brunch but probably didn't need to be). When making EQ3 as an additional game was suggested to some of the EQN Dev team, there was a lot of pushback and it was stated that making EQ3 was a lot more difficult than has been suggesting on this forum (I wasn't at this brunch but I can guess that when I wrote earlier that it would be 80% done with just the EQN stuff, I must have been way off).

However, after the end of the EQ3 discussion at the Dev Brunch, and this again is not speculation, the EQN Devs participating in the discussion "didn't rule it out for the future." (Quote is from friend paraphrasing the end of the conversation, not an exact quote of the devs). I have no idea what "not ruling it out for the future" means as I'm just relaying info from a few of my friends who were at the Brunch. So take that with as big a grain of salt as you want. Maybe the Devs just said it to get the people asking the question to shut the hell up. ;-)

There were a couple more tidbits from the Brunch, but I'll need a little clarification before posting. I'm not going to make the same mistake again.

Ambiturner_sl said:

Wasn't this shit supposed to be extremely close to beta months ago according to Smed? And weren't there publications saying they saw a sneak preview and it was supposed to be incredible a long time ago as well?

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Well, Smedley said we'd get our hands on an actual release of what they're working on this year. But nobody was expectingthe Scarlet InquisitionEverQuest Next Landmark.

And MMORPG and TenTonHammer only saw it back in June during E3...not that long ago, really.

tad10_sl said:

PVP
-Latest is there is no PvP (or maybe just super limited PvP like an Arena) on Norrath (the main continent). There is PvP associated with EQN and exactly how it is being implemented will be announced next year, I'm not going to speculate heavily. Maybe on an entirely separate unannounced continent? Maybe totally instanced? I don't know. Mea culpa for misunderstanding what was going on. By way of clarification, there were lots of unintentionally dropped hints of stuff at SOE Live (especially at the pool party ;-)), so I guess I went too far based on one of those without getting clarification.

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I'm not much of a PvPer, but that's kind of disappointing. I was really expecting some EVE zone control type shit, even though I doubt I'd really join that kind of server.

tad10_sl said:

Combat Example
-The example I gave of combat is reasonably accurate as of today (things can change). But what I was told seems to differ from McPherson's tweet. I was told that they are getting rid of needing to form a group by finding 1 cleric, 1 tank and 1 DPS/CC because everyone will, in time, have access to those classes (support/healing class, heavy armor class, dps/cc class) and can fill those roles if necessary.

So I think Talisker is being disingenuous with the quote because not only was what I was told just confirmed again, but the various SB combat AI slides/PP around on the Internet support my example. So yes, you don't need the Trinity, because everyone will have access to multiple classes and group formation becomes: "I'll tank/dps this time around, you dps/off-tank and you stay behind us and heal/support and/or range dps" and everyone then selects an appropriate class from their owned classes and an appropriate loadout. What's gone is taunting (obviously this is the big one) and the need for a specific class, so we'll see how that works out with the AI.

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This honestly seems to go against pretty much EVERYTHING they said in the class panel and Q&A's. I dunno Tad...

Teekey_sl said:

This honestly seems to go against pretty much EVERYTHING they said in the class panel and Q&A's. I dunno Tad...

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That's what I thought but I don't know. The final comment on grouping at the class panel was you want to group with people with skills who know how to play their character. And if you look at the AI examples, you've got tanky guys in front blocking the mob from getting the wiz behind them.

It's not the trinity as we know it - but it's much more than the everybody dps they were saying at the Panel.

To be perfectly honest, the only SOE person who seemed to really understand StoryBricks AI was Moorguard. So I wouldn't be surprised if Talisker and Co. are a little off base. I do not see how you can play the game as its designed without someone acting primarily as a support class and another persons taking on the mobs.

Erronius_sl said:

That logic doesn't make sense.

"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [art direction], this isn't their first [MMO] using [art] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [character models], this isn't their first [MMO] using [character models] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [class roles], this isn't their first [MMO] using [classes] after all."
"Honestly I don't know why you would worry much about [cash shops], this isn't their first [MMO] using [cash shops] after all."

And remember, this is SOE - just when you think they've gone and done something outstanding, they somehow manage to shit in their own mouth. Not to mention that they're adding a bunch of other shit to it such as voxels, and frankly I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there are a bunch of issues that don't get ironed out until a couple of years post release, at the earliest. I mean you MIGHT be right, maybe the performance will be spectacular, but having used the engine (once?) before isn't a predictor of future success with it.

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Doesn't help that PS2(Same engine) had a lot of optimization problems, I think they still exist to this day.

Teekey_sl said:

I'm not much of a PvPer, but that's kind of disappointing. I was really expecting some EVE zone control type shit, even though I doubt I'd really join that kind of server.

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They say they are open to change. Reddit has a poll on this.

tad10_sl said:

I have some additional info that changes some things this is mostly but not all from Dev Brunch (Friends telling me what was said, I wasn't there so possibly some phone game data corruption ;-) )

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What a wild ride. I feel like I am in a totally different place than I was expecting to be after SOE Live. I think I am more excited for EQN Landmark than I am for EQN. I have also gone from questioning the developer's design decisions to questioning if there is even a game coming in the next 2-3 years. Every single presentation/panel/interview given by the developers was 98% "Here's what we're hoping/thinking/aiming for." They talk so much about EQN being different, but this is exactly the same as almost every MMO before it: HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE -> TALK TALK TALK TALK -> HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT.

All those guesses about beta coming out after SOE Live were WAY off. They are basically still at the design stage of this game. All they have actually accomplished is a limited amount of artwork and some modifications to the PS2 engine. I fully expect at least 1/3 of the features they discussed at SOE Live to be cut before release because "we realized it just wasn't going to work."

tad10_sl said:

That's what I thought but I don't know. The final comment on grouping at the class panel was you want to group with people with skills who know how to play their character. And if you look at the AI examples, you've got tanky guys in front blocking the mob from getting the wiz behind them.

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"No one specific role, or pair of roles is integral to unlocking the strategy of defeating each encounter"

I really don't know how else to take a statement like that.

tad10_sl said:

I do not see how you can play the game as its designed without someone acting primarily as a support class and another persons taking on the mobs.

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The real million dollar question is: Do mobs have auto attacks? Is every mob attack or ability going to have a telegraph?

To me, everything they've said somewhat leans towards a huge reliance on movement to avoid telegraphed damaging attacks.

With this system though I can somewhat forsee how Utility and Tanks could fit in. Perhaps there's some telegraphs that can't be avoided, as in no matter where the player moves to, the telegraph moves and a Fireball is homing in on them. However, a Tank may be able to step into the line of sight and in harms way and use a Spell Reflect utility spell, which shoots the Fireball back at the mob and protects their ally from being hit.

Now perhaps the spell could have also been interrupted by a Rogue's Kick, or Spell Warded by an Enchanter, etc. But it's one method to allow a active defensive tanking style, without making it required to have one or necessarily detrimental to bring one along.

tad10_sl said:

Edit: I'm going to standby my LOLMMO comment. You will be fighting each other LOLstyle somehow in this game. I just don't know how that's going to happen. We find out next year.

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I would be very happy with a LOL MMO both with the classes & the itemization (Lifesteal, Spellvamp, Rylai, Deathfire Grasp, Aura Tank Items, Heal Potions)
If you look at EQ/Vanguard, the classes without a heal were "specialists" (Rogue, Warrior, Sorcerer/Wizard, etc etc) add in some Lifesteal/Shields/Bandages and you'll probably never need a "dedicated healer".
You can still keep the "MT" concept alive (if you want) using /defensive rotations with classes like War/Mnk/SK/Pal after the have itemized for tanking (i would prefer raids designed for 4x6 but bring what you want)
Also "weapon related skills" is not a bad idea (want to stun as a melee ? get a mace.... want to hamstring ? get a short sword / dagger).
I just hope they don't add stance-dancing & stance related skills (A big FU to Blizzard for making Thunderclap not usable in def stance for over 2 years).

There are a billion good ideas out there (see WH triggered raids/events) implementation has always been the issue.