EQ Never

Siddar_sl said:

It's likely also that PvP battle grounds will be a major part of EQN highend play.

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This. Having watched the panels and Q&A's, the panel seemed defensive and avoiding on every question and was trying to speak about the "DESTRUCTABLE ENVIROMENT" at any given time.
Instead of convincing the audience they have a great product they overly used words like "amazing" and "incredible" when talking about controversial issues.
The simple fact is that this game looks a bit deprived of content and is being presented as a League of Legend clone.
"AND HOW ABOUT THAT DESTRUCTABLE ENVIROMENT FOLKS!!!"
I get this "pre-owned" car dealer salesman vibe of this.
"CAN I GET AN AMEN ON THAT?!!!"
They are sort of ridiculing the fans asking questions and forcing aplauses.
As long as all classes can obtain all skills, and there are no need for healers or tanks the fans need a good explanation as to how this will enrich the game.
The answers are not convincing. It seems like they are building this game as a sandbox PvP machine where the players are on a constant grind for the next best skill.
But with "DESTRUCTABLE ENVIROMENT!"

Woolygimp_sl said:

Oh, and vagueness & "let's poll the community" just reeks of indecisiveness which is an indicator that this game has no foundation and SOE really has very little idea as to how they're actually going to make this game. That alone should be setting alarm bells off in everyone's head. When you create a game, before you start coding, you should have some idea as to the basic tenets of your game.


IT'S LIKE THEY ARE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO (WINGING IT) and simply saying, "wow, these are cool ideas let's throw them together in a game." Except half the ideas are NOT fucking cool and will not work, much less work together.

This game has no foundation. The developers are basically like, "well... we're not sure how our own game is going to work but... IT SOUNDS COOL AMIRITE?!" And there are people excited about this?

They can't even fucking properly hype in a genre that has been nothing BUT hype for the last 10 years.

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They are making it up as they go along. It's alot of yellow legal pads with coffee stains, butcher paper on the wall with all of the coolest features of the hottest games of 2011 on it, and Jeff Butler having a PTSD meltdown over the trinity.

Kharza-kzad_sl said:

Seems like a very large amount of carrying capacity will be needed to store class related gear. Maybe they will do a magic closet where you put all your armor.

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As much bag space as you can buy with Stationcash.

So I sat down and was watching the Hatfields & McCoys Miniseries and decided to argue with myself..

I thought about how much I loved EQ than and how much I love LoL now. Maybe not a fair comparison, it's apples and oranges but each are how I spent my time in their respective parts of my life.

I really love LoL and if EQNext in terms of combat and feel lends itself toward LoL, that is not necessarily a negative. I play a lot of support in LoL. As discussed previously, I just tend to play healing/support roles in games. I'm sure that EQNext will offer "support" roles. Someone will have a heal but probably not an entire bar worth of healing abilities. Who knows, maybe equiping certain maces and/or staffs will give more healing abilities but we'll see.

Anyway, now that I am warming up to the idea a bit more I do have concern that if EQNext's combat and abilities are leaning towards LoL and GW2, each of the those works primarily in a PvP world. I have a hard time seeing those concepts translate to beating on NPC's. The AI and even the world itself is really going to need some attention and careful thought in my opinion to make it work. We will see but I still have concerns that they may have taken some great ideas and have them swirling around in their minds but implementation time and beta with a few thousand people may give very different results.

Bentern_sl said:

The answers are not convincing. It seems like they are building this game as a sandbox PvP machine where the players are on a constant grind for the next best skill.
But with "DESTRUCTABLE ENVIROMENT!"

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There's no sandbox.

There's no (meaningful) PvP.

So basically the only thing there is...

...is a destructable environment.

Not following this thread, but I thought the music was absolutely beautiful. And then they show that live gameplay that looked like an action platformer for kids. WTF... Anyways, game could still turn out to be awesome. I say turn out, since I got the feeling they didn't have shit implemented.

Muligan_sl said:

So I sat down and was watching the Hatfields & McCoys Miniseries and decided to argue with myself..

I thought about how much I loved EQ than and how much I love LoL now. Maybe not a fair comparison, it's apples and oranges but each are how I spent my time in their respective parts of my life.

I really love LoL and if EQNext in terms of combat and feel lends itself toward LoL, that is not necessarily a negative. I play a lot of support in LoL. As discussed previously, I just tend to play healing/support roles in games. I'm sure that EQNext will offer "support" roles. Someone will have a heal but probably not an entire bar worth of healing abilities. Who knows, maybe equiping certain maces and/or staffs will give more healing abilities but we'll see.

Anyway, now that I am warming up to the idea a bit more I do have concern that if EQNext's combat and abilities are leaning towards LoL and GW2, each of the those works primarily in a PvP world. I have a hard time seeing those concepts translate to beating on NPC's. The AI and even the world itself is really going to need some attention and careful thought in my opinion to make it work. We will see but I still have concerns that they may have taken some great ideas and have them swirling around in their minds but implementation time and beta with a few thousand people may give very different results.

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...except EQN isn't a PvP game. They don't even know if they're going to include it until they have a poll on reddit.

It's definitely not a sandbox when they were so firm that you couldn't intervene as a villain in rally call events.

Muligan_sl said:

I really love LoL and if EQNext in terms of combat and feel lends itself toward LoL, that is not necessarily a negative. I play a lot of support in LoL. As discussed previously, I just tend to play healing/support roles in games. I'm sure that EQNext will offer "support" roles. Someone will have a heal but probably not an entire bar worth of healing abilities. Who knows, maybe equiping certain maces and/or staffs will give more healing abilities but we'll see.

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Darrin McSomething lead designer said that there will be no pure healing, that everybody in a PvE fight will do dmg and some with healing spells selected could do support in between. So yeah, more or less what you are implying.

14:31

One of the problems with no holy trinity is how to make battles hard. If no specific class/player is going to controll the fight then random groups will be an uncontrolled aggro fest, based on experience of others, resulting in wipes and insults, or the hardness of the fight will be dumbed down into a no brainer buttonmash with guaranteed success. I really hope they will have a way of avoiding the GW2 shortcomings. A dungeon should be hard and challenging with your best mates playing and really really hard with random groups. Without the trinity or at least specialized classes I have a hard time seeing this balance well.

Woolygimp_sl said:

Oh, and vagueness & "let's poll the community" just reeks of indecisiveness which is an indicator that this game has no foundation SNIP

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The Round Table is a marketing initiative and nothing more. In fact so far everything Customer facing is PURELY driven by marketing needs (I won't comment on howincompetentit is to announce a game more than 12-14 months before its release and with so little locked down). I'm sure I've read a Georgeson comment where he said MARKETING would decide when beta starts.

MARKETING DECIDES WHEN BETA STARTS. JESUS CHRIST.

Woolygimp_sl said:

There's no sandbox.

There's no (meaningful) PvP.

So basically the only thing there is...

...is a destructable environment.

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I can see this is upsetting you...



There is a very long way to go. Relax a little.

We dont know what we dont know.

We were shown the world in a unpopulated state. We dont know what combat is until we see the AI in action. The two are interrelated and each are meaningless on their own.

This is a good quote from a Massively article

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08...nics-and-more/

One thing that I think deserves mentioning is something that a couple of devs mentioned to me -- it's not that they are intentionally withholding information just to be cruel, but they want folks to have time to really wrap their heads around the new concepts and vision before really delving into the nitty-gritty details. Without a solid understanding of the basis, the features won't make much sense. And as was witnessed in numerous questions from attendees, players kept trying to fit the square peg of EQN in the round hole of their current MMO understandings. So let's give our fellow gamers time to acclimate to this new way of thinking.

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Keep that in mind. There is ALOT more to learn. I kind of look as it as if we were taken into a really large dark room and only could see what a flashlight was shined on.

Big Flex_sl said:

14:31 @ video

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Actually what's most disturbing here is 11:00+ as they point blank say that there is _no_ limitation to how many classes you can collect. Basically you can have every ability from every class with the only limitation on race restriction.

GW2 was horrid because of the undefined roll premise where everyone just did DPS. EQ was the game that defined the Holy Trinity and it worked just fine. Sounds like they are so hung up on doing something different, that they are forgetting what made Everquest....Everquest. I am not really that concerned because it sounds like this game will launch in 2015 in its current state. I am hoping that sometime between now and then the older developers remember some of the things that made Everquest. That line about the "One person leaving the guild thus causing the downfall of an entire group of players" just goes to show how little he understood Everquest. The Drama is what made the game. It will fail if these basic concepts are not implemented.

1. You can solo, but the rate is about 10 times less than if you just go ahead and find a group. Also I would add that the loot quality would not be as good.
2. Guilds must compete for the best bosses. The 24 hour race needs to exist or it is just another clone. Drama is what made the game memorable.
3. Dying has to hurt. What is the point of doing anything if there is no risk of time involved. How can players really learn and become better players if they never fall.
4. Defined rolls need to exist or the game will either be way to easy, or impossible to balance. This means either a lack of long term enjoyment or everyone playing certain class combos because they are over powered, while other class combos are never used.

So far the new Everquest sounds like GW2 where the PvP got substituted with destructible terrain, which will fail miserably.

I have a feeling that the new catch phrase for this game will follow the path of Vanguard's " Too much Brown"

"Too much Destructible Terrain" : Insert random image of explosion here

tad10_sl said:

EQ3
-The two scrapped versions of the game were not WoWlike as has been reported. At least one was the hardcore EQ3 some of us were looking for (this is not speculation, confirmed at the Dev Brunch). Sorry etchazz.

-EQN Devs are aware of the "concern" over the class/combat mechanics (again confirmed at Dev Brunch but probably didn't need to be). When making EQ3 as an additional game was suggested to some of the EQN Dev team, there was a lot of pushback and it was stated that making EQ3 was a lot more difficult than has been suggesting on this forum (I wasn't at this brunch but I can guess that when I wrote earlier that it would be 80% done with just the EQN stuff, I must have been way off).

However, after the end of the EQ3 discussion at the Dev Brunch, and this again is not speculation, the EQN Devs participating in the discussion "didn't rule it out for the future." (Quote is from friend paraphrasing the end of the conversation, not an exact quote of the devs). I have no idea what "not ruling it out for the future" means as I'm just relaying info from a few of my friends who were at the Brunch. So take that with as big a grain of salt as you want. Maybe the Devs just said it to get the people asking the question to shut the hell up. ;-)

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Pretty much bummed as shit after reading this.

Terial_sl said:

Actually what's most disturbing here is 11:00+ as they point blank say that there is _no_ limitation to how many classes you can collect. Basically you can have every ability from every class with the only limitation on race restriction.

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Yeah.. they don't know what they want. At 14:31 they say they won't do something, then someone says they like that aspect of EQ, so the next thing he says is they WILL do it.

tad10_sl said:

I have some additional info that changes some things this is mostly but not all from Dev Brunch (Friends telling me what was said, I wasn't there so possibly some phone game data corruption ;-) ):

PVP
-Latest is there is no PvP (or maybe just super limited PvP like an Arena) on Norrath (the main continent). There is PvP associated with EQN and exactly how it is being implemented will be announced next year, I'm not going to speculate heavily. Maybe on an entirely separate unannounced continent? Maybe totally instanced? I don't know. Mea culpa for misunderstanding what was going on. By way of clarification, there were lots of unintentionally dropped hints of stuff at SOE Live (especially at the pool party ;-)), so I guess I went too far based on one of those without getting clarification.


...........

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What. The. Fuck.

If they don't have PVP servers with PVP on Norrath and few restrictions it will be more moronic than the sand watercolors intro to the event.

Terial_sl said:

Actually what's most disturbing here is 11:00+ as they point blank say that there is _no_ limitation to how many classes you can collect. Basically you can have every ability from every class with the only limitation on race restriction.

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I dont think it matters how many classes you can collect. What matters is not giving the ability to change rapidly and a good depth of progression into each class. If thats the case then there is no actual difference than collecting a class and having an alt. Im pretty sure everyone will have a "Main". Otherwise they wind up being the proverbial "Jack of all trades, master of none". Basically the Cheesecake Factory of players. Passable at alot of things, but not really good at anything.

IN RE to what Tad10 wrote about no PvP on main continent... What that screams to me is that there will a continent with full pvp and fully destructible player made structures. Castles, keeps, ect.. Group PvP minecraft/clash of clans/planetside with swords. IDK. But if they respond to questions about pvp with "destructible environment" then its not a far leap to assume that destructible environments are going to play a huge role in PvP.

Lleauaric_sl said:

I dont think it matters how many classes you can collect. What matters is not giving the ability to change rapidly and a good depth of progression into each class.

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Lleauaric_sl said:

IN RE to what Tad10 wrote about no PvP on main continent... What that screams to me is that there will a continent with full pvp and fully destructible player made structures. Castles, keeps, ect.. Group PvP minecraft/clash of clans.

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So in other words a larger instanced battleground that they think enables the entire game to be labeled a sandbox.

You're (no longer) in our world now! (You're in your own)

You have ruined your own lands, but you can only temporarily damage mine!