EQ TLP 2024 Teek (Random loot) & Tormax (Traditional) #neckbeardnostalgia

Lumi said:

I definitely don't remember being able to do more than like 3-4 casts of that shit but I guess with tower gear and stuff. I also don't remember it doing THAT much damage and it's also MR with no neg resist check so still kinda seems wild to me that they can out damage wizards. Definitely shouldn't be a thing.

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Its 1200 dmg base. 1800 with puretone(once an hour disc). It costs 800 mana. Bards atm have around 5.1k because of tower gear. So in these super short fights they get 6 casts off at 1.8k each + the pitiful melee during.

It is like you said though, if you get any resist, you drop hard. Velious has a few mobs its good on though, more so if you can get someone running debuffs.

And it has to be a short fight, these 30 second yeli or KT kills are the supreme time for it, you can do well up to say 60 seconds, but you start dropping the longer it goes.

Do you really want to see 72 rogues backstabbin for 45 sec till the dragon is dead?

Korzax Stonehammer said:

Do you really want to see 72 rogues backstabbin for 45 sec till the dragon is dead?

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It’s all I’ve ever wanted

DickTrickle said:

Don't know if they fixed it but I thought OW Khati Sha would get bugged out a lot. On Mischief, we never batphoned it (but maybe part of that was just it being out of the way and everyone already overflowing with loot).

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There is no yellow text, no great tracking method, and it's got a long respawn timer. We killed her in OW almost every spawn and were never contested.

Lumi said:

I definitely don't remember being able to do more than like 3-4 casts of that shit but I guess with tower gear and stuff. I also don't remember it doing THAT much damage and it's also MR with no neg resist check so still kinda seems wild to me that they can out damage wizards. Definitely shouldn't be a thing.

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Nah this has been a thing on TLP since at least Phinny, but it's only good for fights short. It was actually even more OP for a little while on Selo because it's AoE and wasn't capped at 4 targets, Bards were pulling entire zones and soloing them so it ended up getting nerfed back down to 4 targets.

Tower gear does give them 1 or 2 more casts compared to normal Velious gear. It's a singing mod song. So prior to Luclin you only have puretone and epic to mod it. So Prior to Luclin it doesn't do much damage outside of Puretone. After Luclin Bards get Amp(song), AAs and Clickies to mod it so it starts doing good Dmg without Puretone.

Lumi said:

wtf how can bards be outdmgn wizards and sks?

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Vicious Mockery

Mrniceguy said:

Nah this has been a thing on TLP since at least Phinny, but it's only good for fights short. It was actually even more OP for a little while on Selo because it's AoE and wasn't capped at 4 targets, Bards were pulling entire zones and soloing them so it ended up getting nerfed back down to 4 targets.

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I am going to miss solo/duoing plane of fire field2 for my AA, thats for sure.

Rajaah said:

Unsure if you're suggesting RI's losing because of hoops. We've got the parses that show RI used a lot more hoops than we did on a few of those fights. But yes, soon we'll all run out (thank God), assuming we're on an even playing field and were both caught off guard by this change.

SK's going to keep being good, yeah. I think if someone asked me to pick the single best class in EQ from start to live, SK would likely be the winner. They have some lulls and low points, but none of them are terribly low, and the highs are high. Some classes are S-tier on raids, or in groups, or at soloing. SK's S-tier at all 3. Their toolkit and ability to pull, tank, DPS, sustain a fight, are all off the charts too. So they'll always be good. However I think with Luclin boss HP being what it is, SKs are going to fall behind and it'll be all about wizards/monks/rangers with SK in 4th (maybe even 5th behind a BIS rogue). At launch SKs will still be strong, but over time with equipment and AA gains it'll shift away from them for the time being. The class moves back into S-tier in OOW+ though.

Bards are obviously the kings of short fights in the meantime and it's pretty awesome to see. I knew bards could blow away the competition on a shorter engage and was rooting for them. Bard's another class that's top-tier for pretty much the whole life of the game. SK+Bard+Shaman can be dropped into literally any era of EQ and excel.

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This you?



From the OW Yeli sock Saturday that was decided by ~40k damage of hoops from your team. Some serious projection going on with your hoop conspiracy bullshit

ronne said:

This you?

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From the OW Yeli sock Saturday that was decided by ~40k damage of hoops from your team. Some serious projection going on with your hoop conspiracy bullshit

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You burned a number of them on the Yelinak before that and lost. You burned 99~ charges on the AoW DPS race you won (The only dps race you've won against us since the exp bonus iirc). Though I think the bigger difference on the AoW was our DPS dying to your trains. I think the difference in damage was about 10k

It doesn't matter. In a week Hoops will be back, they'll just cost more to get but it doesn't matter when a krono is 500k.

Zaide said:

You burned a number of them on the Yelinak before that and lost. You burned 99~ charges on the AoW DPS race you won (The only dps race you've won against us since the exp bonus iirc). Though I think the bigger difference on the AoW was our DPS dying to your trains. I think the difference in damage was about 10k

It doesn't matter. In a week Hoops will be back, they'll just cost more to get but it doesn't matter when a krono is 500k.

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What does this have to do with Rajaah projecting about some weird hoop conspiracy

Yea before lynuga got GM killed or whatever there were like 120 hoops getting burned per raid, it was indeed really stupid

Korzax Stonehammer said:

Why do you think the classes need to be balanced again?

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Let me turn the question around: Why do you think classes should not be balanced? Do you think it's healthy for a fantasy MMO to have most players gravitate to a few overpowered classes like monks and enchanters?

Every class should be desirable to play.

We're talking about TLP class balance not the the live expansion EQ. We are not talking about perfect balance (strawman fallacy), we are talking about relative balance.

I suspect that FOH members might not like the concept of class balance for self-serving reasons, because they believe it would impact them and their current OP class.

From a game design perspective, classes should at least be balanced which means that serious effort should be expanded to ensure all classes have relatively equal utility in groups, relatively equal dps. Class balance is not hard at all. It just takes effort, talent, and will, something that Darkpaw has in short supply.

No game director is going to tell their class designers:

"Please spend a few months making a crappy class that nobody wants to play"

I don't know if you know what "balance" means. They do tune-ups constantly. Wizards, Rogues, Shaman, Druids, all got big fucking buffs over the last decade on TLP's in early expansions. What'd they do? +x damage mostly. That's usually enough. The Innate _____ AA's getting buffed is their quickfix solution. If you want "balance" that means reworking all sorts of dumb shit like giving druids in kunark a 2.5k heal and shaman a group torpor or some shit. That's a LOT of work and the butterfly effect can travel down the line and fuck shit up at the later game even with changes in the first 4 expacs.

They're constantly buffing the shit classes by upping their damage, and that's basically what they SHOULD be doing. The other way to balance is to nerf shit like Monk not being affected by MOTM in the same way as other DPS. Rogues suck for two (ish) expansions and then a good rogue will be crushing it consistently on overall and with AA's actually show up on the boss fights they want.

The problem is the TLP mindset has gone from "I wanna roleplay a _____ and get cool armor/weapons!" to "_____ is the most effective character in my small group/box group, so why would I ever be anything else?" You see it here. 72 wizards and SK's. 30 monks in botter DZ's. It's all min/max. There's always going to be a min and always going to be a max, you're just asking for them to swap around which is which.

EQ does get "balance" later, but no one who complains about this shit ever plays beyond OOW so they just don't know. At some point you have warriors topping parses, Paladins topping heals, and people begging for druids and enchanters in their group. The balance is there, but there's so few tools besides adjusting numbers in the early EQ era that they can do much more about it than they already do.

ronne said:

What does this have to do with Rajaah projecting about some weird hoop conspiracy

Yea before lynuga got GM killed or whatever there were like 120 hoops getting burned per raid, it was indeed really stupid

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Idk I guess I don’t see the hoop conspiracy in his post. Both raids I mention are post Lynuga abduction.

Old Man Potter said:

Let me turn the question around: Why do you think classes should not be balanced? Do you think it's healthy for a fantasy MMO to have most players gravitate to a few overpowered classes like monks and enchanters?

Every class should be desirable to play.

We're talking about TLP class balance not the the live expansion EQ. We are not talking about perfect balance (strawman fallacy), we are talking about relative balance.

I suspect that FOH members might not like the concept of class balance for self-serving reasons, because they believe it would impact them and their current OP class.

From a game design perspective, classes should at least be balanced which means that serious effort should be expanded to ensure all classes have relatively equal utility in groups, relatively equal dps. Class balance is not hard at all. It just takes effort, talent, and will, something that Darkpaw has in short supply.

No game director is going to tell their class designers:

"Please spend a few months making a crappy class that nobody wants to play"

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EQ is not broken. It's old. it's not designed for pvp, so classes don't need to be balanced, they need to be fun. Which class is not fun to play?

Rajaah said:

Me saying "parses show RI used more hoops than we did on some of these fights" = "a weird hoop conspiracy"?

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Bro this is factually not true.

I usually stay far away from this stupid drama bait but every time you come in here it's to post the actual opposite of reality and it makes my fuckin eye twitch



+6 total SK count for that Yeli from you guys, with SK's averaging ~8k damage with a hoop or ~6k without. The good SK's got in 8 drain souls, middle of the road people got 6

Accounting for 2h white damage hoops are ~20% of SK DPS output and you boys had a fucking mountain of them to burn.

You guys are weird.

ronne said:

Bro this is factually not true.

I usually stay far away from this stupid drama bait but every time you come in here it's to post the actual opposite of reality and it makes my fuckin eye twitch

View attachment 546330

+6 total SK count for that Yeli from you guys, with SK's averaging ~8k damage with a hoop or ~6k without. The good SK's got in 8 drain souls, middle of the road people got 6

Accounting for 2h white damage hoops are ~20% of SK DPS output and you boys had a fucking mountain of them to burn.

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This is an sk count. Just show spirit taps (or whatever hoop is) per guild.

ronne said:

Bro this is factually not true.

I usually stay far away from this stupid drama bait but every time you come in here it's to post the actual opposite of reality and it makes my fuckin eye twitch

View attachment 546330

+6 total SK count for that Yeli from you guys, with SK's averaging ~8k damage with a hoop or ~6k without. The good SK's got in 8 drain souls, middle of the road people got 6

Accounting for 2h white damage hoops are ~20% of SK DPS output and you boys had a fucking mountain of them to burn.

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You guys are talking about different parses. There are like 4-6 mobs per day lol why are we focusing on this one parse? Who even cares?