Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

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Chysamere

Chysamere

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Palum said:
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Looked up RDM and SAM which are the two main jobs I play and both have new buttons. Argh.
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Are you sure they have new buttons?

For Red Mage, Jolt 3 replaces Jolt 2, Vice of Thorns appears on the same button as Embolden when you use it, Jolt 3 changes to Impact when it's available, Cineration replaces Manafication when used and enchanted Moulinet combo is one button. No new buttons.

I'm less familiar with Samurai but I believe they merged Shoha and Shoha 2 (so you save one button there) and also Tsubame-Gaeshi is now linked to the same button as Meikyo (saving another button) - you got 1 new ability on its own new button - Zanshin, so overall you have one less button than before.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure like I said, no new classes have straight up extra new buttons (without reducing button bloat on other abilities) except Scholar.
 
Palum

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Chysamere said:
Are you sure they have new buttons?

For Red Mage, Jolt 3 replaces Jolt 2, Vice of Thorns appears on the same button as Embolden when you use it, Jolt 3 changes to Impact when it's available, Cineration replaces Manafication when used and enchanted Moulinet combo is one button. No new buttons.

I'm less familiar with Samurai but I believe they merged Shoha and Shoha 2 (so you save one button there) and also Tsubame-Gaeshi is now linked to the same button as Meikyo (saving another button) - you got 1 new ability on its own new button - Zanshin, so overall you have one less button than before.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure like I said, no new classes have straight up extra new buttons (without reducing button bloat on other abilities) except Scholar.
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Hmmm where do you see button location? I'm looking at the official class guides and vice of thorns for example does not say that, but grand impact says impact becomes it when requirements are met and it can't be placed on action bar. So to me that means new? I would think it would say replaces embolden when requirements are met?
 
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Chysamere

Chysamere

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Palum said:
Hmmm where do you see button location? I'm looking at the official class guides and vice of thorns for example does not say that, but grand impact says impact becomes it when requirements are met and it can't be placed on action bar. So to me that means new? I would think it would say replaces embolden when requirements are met?
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It would, you are correct, I was wrong. Enjoy your extra button! I was bamboozled by the way the guy said it in the Job breakdown I watched.

Odd for them to not have it on a single button. I wonder if that will be an option in the future similar to them moving 1-2-3 combos to a single button.
 
Palum

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Chysamere said:
It would, you are correct, I was wrong. Enjoy your extra button! I was bamboozled by the way the guy said it in the Job breakdown I watched.

Odd for them to not have it on a single button. I wonder if that will be an option in the future similar to them moving 1-2-3 combos to a single button.
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I have come to loath new buttons in MMOs. I don't want to remap my keys or buy a massive MMO mouse. :(

Seems every game is intent on this at some level.
 
Pyros

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Palum said:
Hmmm where do you see button location? I'm looking at the official class guides and vice of thorns for example does not say that, but grand impact says impact becomes it when requirements are met and it can't be placed on action bar. So to me that means new? I would think it would say replaces embolden when requirements are met?
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You cannot see it from the description. The descriptions will only mention it if the skill cannot be placed on the hotbar at all, but for many of the new skills replacing a button, they can also be placed on a bar separately(if you don't want to cast them by mistake if you're spamming the oGCD they come from). This is the case of Vice of Thorns, which replaces Embolden button(you can only use it after Embolden anyway). You can choose an option ingame to make it not replace Embolden and put it somewhere else if you want.

There's no good way to check these out other than media tour. Red Mage has 0 new buttons. Vice Thorns replaces Embolden, Grand Impact replaces Jolt, Prefulgence replaces Manafication and Enchanted Moulinet 2/3 replace Enchanted Moulinet(even though the single target combo is still 3 buttons).
 
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Palum

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Pyros said:
You cannot see it from the description. The descriptions will only mention it if the skill cannot be placed on the hotbar at all, but for many of the new skills replacing a button, they can also be placed on a bar separately(if you don't want to cast them by mistake if you're spamming the oGCD they come from). This is the case of Vice of Thorns, which replaces Embolden button(you can only use it after Embolden anyway). You can choose an option ingame to make it not replace Embolden and put it somewhere else if you want.

There's no good way to check these out other than media tour. Red Mage has 0 new buttons. Vice Thorns replaces Embolden, Grand Impact replaces Jolt, Prefulgence replaces Manafication and Enchanted Moulinet 2/3 replace Enchanted Moulinet(even though the single target combo is still 3 buttons).
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Ah ok if that's the case that's great. Weird because the class guides seem pretty comprehensive.
 
Palum

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So what's the TL;DR on Viper? Reading the class guide it seems like you get prompted to do specific combos, so something like discount ninja?
 
Pyros

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Palum said:
Ah ok if that's the case that's great. Weird because the class guides seem pretty comprehensive.
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I think they might add it later with an UI screenshot of how it looks ingame maybe, or they'll add something in the tooltip somewhere to signify you can decouple them. I think generally anything that replaces an oGCD with another oGCD that can be used instantly can be decoupled.
 
Pyros

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Palum said:
So what's the TL;DR on Viper? Reading the class guide it seems like you get prompted to do specific combos, so something like discount ninja?
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It's a bit of a mix of several classes. The main combo is somewhat like Dragoon maybe, with 2 branching paths, but you just kinda alternate so there's never really any choice. Technically it's 2 branching paths x2 so 4 outcomes but the outcomes combo into each other so there's no choice of what to do next, you start by buffing then using the skills that don't buff but do more dmg then rebuffing etc. Besides that it has 2 different "special modes", one is a cooldown based two-handed phase which is a separate 3step combo that generates special ressources with a slower GCD and the other is a Reaper-like speed phase where you get lower GCD for 5moves+finisher by consuming gauge. That's pretty much the whole class, it has a gapcloser as usual and also has a range attack ressource based attack that lets you get good damage at range for a few GCDs for downtime, but nothing else, no utility, no defensive.
 
Palum

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Pyros said:
It's a bit of a mix of several classes. The main combo is somewhat like Dragoon maybe, with 2 branching paths, but you just kinda alternate so there's never really any choice. Technically it's 2 branching paths x2 so 4 outcomes but the outcomes combo into each other so there's no choice of what to do next, you start by buffing then using the skills that don't buff but do more dmg then rebuffing etc. Besides that it has 2 different "special modes", one is a cooldown based two-handed phase which is a separate 3step combo that generates special ressources with a slower GCD and the other is a Reaper-like speed phase where you get lower GCD for 5moves+finisher by consuming gauge. That's pretty much the whole class, it has a gapcloser as usual and also has a range attack ressource based attack that lets you get good damage at range for a few GCDs for downtime, but nothing else, no utility, no defensive.
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Interesting. I was really hoping to like it but sounds kind of flat the way you describe it, especially since it seems like SAM 2.0 utility wise?
 
Pyros

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Palum said:
Interesting. I was really hoping to like it but sounds kind of flat the way you describe it, especially since it seems like SAM 2.0 utility wise?
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Well I'm biased cause I'm not interested in it at all but yeah at least for me it doesn't look particularily fun to play, although it's flashy and fast so should appeal to a lot of people. And yeah it fits the same role as SAM, it has no party buff at all, you just kinda want to line up your burst with 2mins windows from other people. On the flipside early sim looks like it might be one of the strongest class if not the strongest and it's also very consistent damage instead of massive burst phases so it'll probably do well in parties with low party synergy.

I'll level it anyway and maybe I'll end up liking it, just looks kinda boring to me.
 
Chysamere

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I'll try it, because I try everything and level it to max, but I don't like positionals and Viper has what, 4? No thanks.

I'll stick with Samurai for the rare times I play Melee dps.
 
Folanlron

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Much better video that goes into the Viper stuff more in-depth..



That is bout as close as a "overview" as you can get till we can actually play.
 
Pyros

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Chysamere said:
I'll try it, because I try everything and level it to max, but I don't like positionals and Viper has what, 4? No thanks.

I'll stick with Samurai for the rare times I play Melee dps.
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I mean SAM has positionals too. Viper has like one positional per 3GCD combo(that alternates between back and flank), and the 2H combo alternates 2 positionals in a row(you choose which one you start with but the 2nd one is always the other one) but it also has like 2.5s GCD even with the speed so pretty easy.

So it's more positionals than SAM but it's also not like crazy positionals like old monk.
 
Chysamere

Chysamere

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Pyros said:
I mean SAM has positionals too. Viper has like one positional per 3GCD combo(that alternates between back and flank), and the 2H combo alternates 2 positionals in a row(you choose which one you start with but the 2nd one is always the other one) but it also has like 2.5s GCD even with the speed so pretty easy.

So it's more positionals than SAM but it's also not like crazy positionals like old monk.
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2 more positionals than Sam is 4 more than I wish I had to deal with. Sam has the least positionals of any melee class (other than Ninja I guess) - I never play melee in any content that matters anyway.
 
Mao

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It feels like they really need to dump the positionals. I know is a relic of days gone, but each time I see a big boss that is off the side of the arena and only has a frontal hitbox I just sigh inside. Perhaps those bosses are set to specifically ignore the positional mechanics and all, but its just... why? Sure, its a way for skilled played to be +1 gooder, but with a lot of the movement and outside the arena bosses, it just feels outdated.
 
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Rangoth

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Im not sure I agree that it outdated, but you do raise a fantastic point about many battles simply do not allow for side/back. Maybe it is like you said where ignores positional attack requirements for those fights. But if you are going to have stuff like that, you can’t gimp it in a significant portion of boss fights
 
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