Yeah, 9 months. Luckily I"ve had a few weeks before this to make peace because like I said this isn"t horribly unexpected. It still doesn"t suck any less though.
Girls who broke your heart thread
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holy fucking shit a woman who knows whats going on in her headAlcestis said:
tarrant, in what way have you acknowledged that you"ve changed or are making a point to change? She brings it up every now and then, right? I"m curious, because I was thinking about it and don"t know when this "I"m still skeptical" thing ends, since really people put on a front in their relationships for up to a year.
What if you corrected her when she brings it up. Next time she says "I really like hanging out with you now, but I need more time to make sure blah blah" how about interrupting and clearly saying that you are not different than you were, you still like x,y,z, work still stresses you out more than it maybe should. The only difference is, your attitude about how to handle those things has changed.
The point I"m trying to get across is that if you represent change, she is always gonna be unsure about it. But if you verbally say you are still the same person just with a better attitude, her good feelings won"t go away, but it still strips her of the "this could go sour" idea.
I"m working off an idea I read about a while ago. I think it was Cajun who said that when a girl talks about what she likes in a guy or what she likes in him, he"ll often disqualify himself and say, for example, "well I do work hard, but sometimes I"ll slack off and not do as much as I wanted to." It strips him of having to live up to that expectation, so the girl has nothing in her mind to think "well, its good now but if x,y,z changes I"m not gonna be interested anymore."
It"s rambling and I have little time so it may not be clear or make sense, but it seems like there is no end to the "I need to wait." The waiting could get boring for both of you and this whole thing could fizzle out from stagnation.
Tarrant
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This is something actually that has been brought up already. Not long ago she asked how work was going and I told her me and my boss had just went rounds about asking me to do things outside my job description (we have a contract about duties...what is and isn"t mine) and that if this was going to be a routine thing that we would have to renegotiate my pay. there was much more to it then that, but my ex knows that usually I just go with the flow at work so I don"t have to deal with teh stress of it and she was surprised by it.Dabamf said:
She asked if I was alright, I told her yes, it was stressful but I would be okay. She commented again (much like the time before when work had been brought into our conversation...my boss chewing me out over the phone in front of my ex) about how it didn"t seem like it was bothering me.
I informed her that no, it did, and it was stressful to deal with but I made the choice to not let it get me down, there are some things we can"t change and in those instances, why let them effect our daily lives when there"s no point....we cant change them so we may as well accept them for what they are and leave it at that. I don"t let those things effect my daily life anymore, work is at work, everything else is everything else.
It"s things like this that I have done to alter my life, small on the outside, but big when compiled with a number of other smaller things. I"ve found life to be much easier and more enjoyable since doing this, another reason why I don"t worry about reverting back to my old ways.
I"m going with option C based on your other posts:Etoille said:
You just don"t know what"s really going on. That doesn"t mean it"s not still happening in relationships around you. But that"s not important. The important thing is you"re happy in your relationship. Honestly, I"m happy for you, because that"s rare. I"m glad it"s working out for someone.
The key point behind what I suggested was to correct her and say "no, I am not a different person. If you think I am a different person, you are making a mistake. (...long pause) I have just adjusted my attitude. If you didn"t like the person I was when we broke up, you won"t like me now (long pause). but if you like the person I was but simply couldn"t deal with my attitude towards things, then maybe we can build on that.Tarrant220 said:
The key is to firmly state, with a long break before any elaboration, that you are NOT a different person. Ultimately it"s someone"s attitude that we are mostly attracted to, and obviously this applies to her because she is once again interested in a person she had previously broken up with. We distrust "I"m a changed man" because that can"t happen without YEARS of hard work and self-reflection, but attitude changes can happen overnight and last forever.
If you clearly assert that you are the same person, it removes that conscious piece of doubt in her head because you are essentially telling her that her doubt is true. It doesn"t work without being slightly confrontational about it (e.g. "hold on hold on, -look intensely into eyes- "blah blah" very seriously) You are disarming her doubt. But since people"s feelings are based on behavior, not words, the way you say it, body language,etc...the whole frame of the interaction that you set, SAYS "I"m a new man" even if you verbally say you are not.
Hope that makes sense. There is one flaw in that a good balance is necessary to avoid going overboard and actually making herfeellike her doubt was right. That"s my disclaimer, but I think this is a good go-to move if you don"t see any significant progression on Sunday. Stagnation will kill you and that"s a guarantee. You"ll become bored/frustrated with it eventually and come to resent her. Take action before that happens.
BTW my words come off as dogmatic and "I know more than you" because I"m lazy and don"t feel like tacting it up. I"m just giving my opinion that I know is sometimes wrong.
P.S. Etoille, whoever said it is right I think, you probably just aren"t aware of what"s going on below the surface. Everyone compares their "status" with that of other people, people naturally pair off with those who are similar in status, and subtle relationship games happen under the surface to test that status whether you are aware of it or not. Obviously some people play less games. My idea scenario is not have to play any. But then I think "what if this girl I was really impressed and intrigued by at first started calling me every day and acting like I was so great after just one date." I wouldn"t be able to help myself in suddenly becoming less intrigued by her, because if she is into me that quickly, even if we are ultimately perfect matches for each other and she can glimpse that future, I will wonder what"s wrong with her that she fell so quickly.
In the past I didn"t think that stuff applied to me. I never noticed even a hint of it and I talked down about anyone who operated on those principles. It was only when I set out to learn why & how most girls do it that I was able to notice similar, though MUCH less, principles in myself.
About the earlier post talking about girl hating and whatnot. Girls set the rules. You can"t blame guys for playing games because girls are biologically and historically the gate-keepers, which means they set the rules. We just aren"t afraid to openly acknowledge them, and follow them exactly as they have been laid out.
Maybe. *shrug* I don"t see why my girlfriends would lie to me about that when I know far shittier stuff about them than "being a game player". Plus theres no game when it comes to interacting with me - people who play games dont just limit it to romantic relationships. And I typically have good judgment about people in terms of who to trust/who not to. Like I said maybe its all just flawed. Given what I know about my friend ships, work relationships, everything I just don"t think so. But thats a pretty indepth conversation and a whole lot of "I"m really awesome" talk that I dont typically like to do. We"ll have to agree to disagree on that just because I have more info on that than youDabamf said:
Its funny that you say girls set the rules. Because 2000 years of history would like to have a few words with you. Female empowerment is a VERY new concept historically speaking and as we see in many countries still very nonexistant.
I think the perception of "girls have it easier" or "are the gatekeepers" is a function of bias tbh. Because again I know girls that would say because of that 2000 years of history its a guys role in asking a woman out so they are the gatekeeper.
I definitely did do the "what has to be wrong with him that he likes me thing" - which isn"t a game really. You weren"t doing that for power or control it was a self confidence issue. Maybe the issue is that I define game playing as something thats done with intention to screw with someone"s head or with a goal of maintaining some crazy status quo. Like I said I think everyone is fucked up to some extent.
Good luck with everything though y"all.
On a board of misogynists, that"s the best compliment there is. Thanks.Dabamf said:
For every society that now doesn"t have any semblance of female empowerment, there is another society (usually of the matriarchal type) where women are expected to be at the helm of relationships. I"d actually agree with females being "the original gatekeepers", speaking from an evolutionary standpoint. I"d even go as far to say that "female empowerment" is actually a very OLD issue experiencing a... resurgence, if you will. It might be incendiary to some - but in prehistoric times, a woman was far more "valuable" than a man based solely on her ability to carry children. One man can inseminate many different women to infinity if he could hold out, but a woman is biologically limited in reproduction based on length of gestation and other factors. Scarcity creates demand. Demand means she can have her pick of suitors or sperm donors. Thus, by necessity, she had to be her own gatekeeper. Her "yes" and "no" is the final word. That"s a hell of a lot to be empowered about.
Fast forward to today. Social constructs and civilized societies are built. Some diverge and reject this concept, for whatever reason. Some don"t. A man asking a woman out first doesn"t mean that he is the gatekeeper; it merely means that he is an instigator. Very much like a caveman signaling interest in bumping rhino-blood stained loincloths with a cavewoman, it"s still ultimately up to her to say "yes" or "no".Thatis what makes her a gatekeeper, based on my definition below.
The person (male or female) who isfirstapproached by the other and has the choice to pursue the relationship or not is the one who sets the rules.
More often than not, in my experience, it"s usually the girl who is asked. And even when... even when a girl throws off her social constraints (should her society have the kind restricting HER movement) and asks a guy out first, usually he defers to her if he agrees, which still makes her the gatekeeper/helmswoman/rule-maker in the end... based solely on her demonstrated amount of will. I can only hazard a guess as to why this works this way, but I think it"s because humans respond instinctively to this "caveman" arrangement on some level.
In absence of a clear scientifically determined answer, personal experience starts to have a place in propping up reasoning. There"s a clear biological and historic precedent to females doing the filtering. I reject that I"ve reached this conclusion based on bias of some variety - I have no personal stake in the matter, no "girl who broke my heart", nothing like that except for being a member of what I believe to be the "gatekeeper" sex.
My thoughts on the matter.
tl;dr: Fuck cavebitches. Get money.
Brad2770
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I am pretty sure I already know the answer, but I am posting because I want to know if I am right. I am trying to learn how to cope with this shit and stay strong, without giving in to shit:
Since we had sex, I have left her alone again. She has texted me a couple of times, if it warranted an answer, I made it very short.
Last night, I had to goto a pre pre-school orientation for my son. Its a Mother"s Day out type of event. I was originally going to meet her there, but she texted me saying she was running late and asked if I would mind picking her and my son up (it was on the way).
I stopped, but told her I would drive her car. I didnt have my son"s car seat in my car because I had taken it out when i got my car fixed.
When we started on our way, she started up about work and the fact that one of her friends is moving to Cali. She talked about new pants she got, some new team lead, at her job, that annoys the shit out of her. Etc... I just listened.
When we got there, we sat through the orientation and while it was going on, she kept flicking my ear and then when i would look over, she would give this silly "Cute girl" smile and then do this little baby wave at me, like she was innocent. It really annoyed me because it felt like empty flirtation-
"Pay attention to me, but I will ignore you when you do."
I ignored her and it kept happening.
After the orientation, we had to finish his registration and then meet his teachers. After this, they had punch and refreshments for the kids and then they were allowed to go play for a little bit. This whole process lasted about an hour. I didnt talk much. I didnt really have anything to say. Nothing positive, anyways. Mainly just bitch about work, but I kept it to myself.
When we got back to her place, she invited me in and said she needed to talk about a few things. I came in and she told about some guy she thinks is stalking her (one of my Grandmother"s neighbors...). She asked if I could talk to the guy and I said I would.
She then asked if I could start taking care of the lawn again, that she would pay me 65 bucks a month to do so. She has really let it go since I have moved out. The money isnt a big deal. I figure there are hidden reasons behind her asking me.
Since we had sex, I have left her alone again. She has texted me a couple of times, if it warranted an answer, I made it very short.
Last night, I had to goto a pre pre-school orientation for my son. Its a Mother"s Day out type of event. I was originally going to meet her there, but she texted me saying she was running late and asked if I would mind picking her and my son up (it was on the way).
I stopped, but told her I would drive her car. I didnt have my son"s car seat in my car because I had taken it out when i got my car fixed.
When we started on our way, she started up about work and the fact that one of her friends is moving to Cali. She talked about new pants she got, some new team lead, at her job, that annoys the shit out of her. Etc... I just listened.
When we got there, we sat through the orientation and while it was going on, she kept flicking my ear and then when i would look over, she would give this silly "Cute girl" smile and then do this little baby wave at me, like she was innocent. It really annoyed me because it felt like empty flirtation-
"Pay attention to me, but I will ignore you when you do."
I ignored her and it kept happening.
After the orientation, we had to finish his registration and then meet his teachers. After this, they had punch and refreshments for the kids and then they were allowed to go play for a little bit. This whole process lasted about an hour. I didnt talk much. I didnt really have anything to say. Nothing positive, anyways. Mainly just bitch about work, but I kept it to myself.
When we got back to her place, she invited me in and said she needed to talk about a few things. I came in and she told about some guy she thinks is stalking her (one of my Grandmother"s neighbors...). She asked if I could talk to the guy and I said I would.
She then asked if I could start taking care of the lawn again, that she would pay me 65 bucks a month to do so. She has really let it go since I have moved out. The money isnt a big deal. I figure there are hidden reasons behind her asking me.
Brad2770
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Yes. Plain and simple.
BUT, I am 100% tired of her games and childish attitude. This is the reason I have avoided talking to her in text and really do not talk to her at all unless I have something positive to say. And even then, I really hardly say anything at all.
I dont mind listening to her bitch and complain, but I am trying to keep the negative parts of my life to myself.
BUT, I am 100% tired of her games and childish attitude. This is the reason I have avoided talking to her in text and really do not talk to her at all unless I have something positive to say. And even then, I really hardly say anything at all.
I dont mind listening to her bitch and complain, but I am trying to keep the negative parts of my life to myself.
Tarrant
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You need to realize there will always be negative things in your life, be they things that directly effect you or not, they will always be there. You cant avoid them, you can however let them not bother you. Stop letting negativity show through, don"t let it get to you...how you handle those things will directly effect your chances of getting back with her.
Second, stop acting like the time you DO spend with her causes you physical pain. If you can"t be easy going and enjoy yourself around her, why would she want to be with you? It just seems like the times you spend with her are awkward and if you don"t think she can pick up on that then you"re only fooling yourself.
You need to learn how to be able to carry on a conversation with her that is positive, no matter how shitty things are, there are always things to talk about that aren"t negative, show her you"re fun to be around. She was flirting with you, ignoring that isn"t good. She tried to pull you in and all you did was push her away. You need to learn how push/pull works, instead of ignoring her you should have just gave her a playful smile, a wink....SOMETHING......acting like it pissed you off wasn"t the best of choices.
You need to relax and enjoy yourself when you are around her, if you can"t enjoy yourself, she"s not going to enjoy being around you and you"re back to square one.
Second, stop acting like the time you DO spend with her causes you physical pain. If you can"t be easy going and enjoy yourself around her, why would she want to be with you? It just seems like the times you spend with her are awkward and if you don"t think she can pick up on that then you"re only fooling yourself.
You need to learn how to be able to carry on a conversation with her that is positive, no matter how shitty things are, there are always things to talk about that aren"t negative, show her you"re fun to be around. She was flirting with you, ignoring that isn"t good. She tried to pull you in and all you did was push her away. You need to learn how push/pull works, instead of ignoring her you should have just gave her a playful smile, a wink....SOMETHING......acting like it pissed you off wasn"t the best of choices.
You need to relax and enjoy yourself when you are around her, if you can"t enjoy yourself, she"s not going to enjoy being around you and you"re back to square one.
Brad2770
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Well, until her words change, I am not going to change. Her actions do not follow what she says. Those are games. I do care for her and do want things to work, but I have put forth a large amount of effort.
What has helped me here recently is what Debamf said- "You" havent changed, but you are better on controlling what gets to you. I needed to change my attitude on certain things.
The reason I dont want to talk to her about my negative things in my life is because new friendships arent flooded with things like. I want to start from fresh. At least on my end.
At this point, I am not trying to win her back or change her mind. I am treating her like a "new" friend and doing what i would feel comfortable doing with someone I just met (minus the sex, of course... I have no self control. I hate that she drives me crazy in the weiner.)
What has helped me here recently is what Debamf said- "You" havent changed, but you are better on controlling what gets to you. I needed to change my attitude on certain things.
The reason I dont want to talk to her about my negative things in my life is because new friendships arent flooded with things like. I want to start from fresh. At least on my end.
At this point, I am not trying to win her back or change her mind. I am treating her like a "new" friend and doing what i would feel comfortable doing with someone I just met (minus the sex, of course... I have no self control. I hate that she drives me crazy in the weiner.)