Guild Wars 2

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Man Dmitry, I was a huge GW2 fanboy pre-launch and really enjoyed the game when it came out. But you can't defend the Arenanet against the charges of lack of content. The Story Line shit is nothing special and it amounts to 5 new daily quests every few weeks. It's really nice that they are constantly changing the world and evolving the lore, and I commend them for that. However, in the span of 2 years, that sort of content should of been in conjunction with new maps, new classes, new skills.
The commentary here about the shift away from exploration and toward smaller chunked event oriented content never made me entirely happy BUT, remember they have added a lot more content than you are giving them credit for:

You have the two SAB boxes, great Halloween and Christmas ad-ons and the wonderful Marionette boss fight (and the not so wonderful Lion's Arch fight). You have Zephyr Sanctum, Southsun, Edge of the Mists, three new fractal dungeons (indeed you could count all ten or so fractals as new content since it's post release), two new SPvP maps, and Queens Pavilion for new zones (I would not really count Kessex Hills as it's not changed all that much). You have two major bosses added to the open world that are massively challenging. Not to mention hundreds of little story changes along the way that you could do if you were logging in during the two weeks they were live.

I don't know of any game that ever did as much in that period of time. I'd love an expansion too but as I have said before:

Content delivered in comic book form is terrific even if some people prefer George RR Martin One book every 3 years (ala WoW).
 

Nija

<Silver Donator>
2,010
3,964
I only stuck around for a quarter of the first halloween event. Virtually everyone I knew checked out around that time. It wasn't very far after release.

The thing is - how much of this living story bullshit still exists to this day? I mean, I played WoW at release - skipped two expansions, and when I fired it up I was able to wander into entirely new areas and do a ton of shit that simply didn't exist before.

Do they have anything like that, or are they piddling around adding a fucking warp graphic in Lion's Arch that goes to some thing that only exists for 2-4 weeks that I'll never see again, or adding yet another path to that firestorm temple or whatever.

Are there new lands with entirely new content to explore? Can any classes use weapons that they couldn't use at release? It's a serious problem I think. It would be a hard fucking sell to get me to reinstall this game, even when everyone effectively has a lifetime subscription.
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
The commentary here about the shift away from exploration and toward smaller chunked event oriented content never made me entirely happy BUT, remember they have added a lot more content than you are giving them credit for:

You have the two SAB boxes, great Halloween and Christmas ad-ons and the wonderful Marionette boss fight (and the not so wonderful Lion's Arch fight). You have Zephyr Sanctum, Southsun, Edge of the Mists, three new fractal dungeons (indeed you could count all ten or so fractals as new content since it's post release), two new SPvP maps, and Queens Pavilion for new zones (I would not really count Kessex Hills as it's not changed all that much). You have two major bosses added to the open world that are massively challenging. Not to mention hundreds of little story changes along the way that you could do if you were logging in during the two weeks they were live.

I don't know of any game that ever did as much in that period of time. I'd love an expansion too but as I have said before:

Content delivered in comic book form is terrific even if some people prefer George RR Martin One book every 3 years (ala WoW).
I wonder if I wouldn't be happier if they just delivered content on monthly basis instead of every fortnight. It's really hard to keep playing continuously, unless you are working on your legendary, since most of the other things are just new skins that don't make your character stronger and there's rather limited set of things to do if you want ascended gear, so every patch turned into "weeklong grind to get new skin for my backpack"
 
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I only stuck around for a quarter of the first halloween event. Virtually everyone I knew checked out around that time. It wasn't very far after release.

The thing is - how much of this living story bullshit still exists to this day? I mean, I played WoW at release - skipped two expansions, and when I fired it up I was able to wander into entirely new areas and do a ton of shit that simply didn't exist before.

Do they have anything like that, or are they piddling around adding a fucking warp graphic in Lion's Arch that goes to some thing that only exists for 2-4 weeks that I'll never see again, or adding yet another path to that firestorm temple or whatever.

Are there new lands with entirely new content to explore? Can any classes use weapons that they couldn't use at release? It's a serious problem I think. It would be a hard fucking sell to get me to reinstall this game, even when everyone effectively has a lifetime subscription.
So I get your question to be "If I log back in, how entertained will I be?" Assuming you like PvE primarilly and are level 80... you have the fractals you'll want to do (couple of days of casual play). Southsea island thing has two jumping puzzles and is kinda fun to explore... few hours there. See Kessex and Lion's Arch changed (maybe an hour if you are a real explorer type). Zephyr Sanctum and those events (maybe two days casual play). Queens Pavilion and those events (maybe a week depending on how much you like solo PvE fights). The survival game, the frog burp game and sanctum sprint... maybe a couple of nights of playing.

The two new PvP maps... for me a few rounds at 15 minutes a round for each but if you like PvP then a few more than that. The new WvW map is really pretty fun in the evening maybe a few nights of that map.


The two current events are good ones and the fractals are the best dungeons in the game and well worth doing if you never did those.
No new weapons but there has been a lot of rebalancing to make some lesser used ones more viable (He said as a shield and pistol nade engineer still after 2 years).

edit: Oh I'd do the Karka Queen and Frostgorge events too at least once. Those are both kinda fun.
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Due to zone instancing it's not really noticeable, but there are bots farming rare mats for sure.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
The commentary here about the shift away from exploration and toward smaller chunked event oriented content never made me entirely happy BUT, remember they have added a lot more content than you are giving them credit for:

You have the two SAB boxes, great Halloween and Christmas ad-ons and the wonderful Marionette boss fight (and the not so wonderful Lion's Arch fight). You have Zephyr Sanctum, Southsun, Edge of the Mists, three new fractal dungeons (indeed you could count all ten or so fractals as new content since it's post release), two new SPvP maps, and Queens Pavilion for new zones (I would not really count Kessex Hills as it's not changed all that much). You have two major bosses added to the open world that are massively challenging. Not to mention hundreds of little story changes along the way that you could do if you were logging in during the two weeks they were live.

I don't know of any game that ever did as much in that period of time. I'd love an expansion too but as I have said before:

Content delivered in comic book form is terrific even if some people prefer George RR Martin One book every 3 years (ala WoW).
I duno, Rift added more content than that. It's like saying WOW adds a ton of content everytime there is a holiday event or darkmoon faire. Or rift added a ton of stuff by adding new styles of Rifts.

No other game really added that much 'stuff' over time, because it's really not content, it's just extra scripted events or minigames added to the game. It's cool stuff, but it's not impressive or "expansion" worthy stuff.

I guess you can count that dragon event they added as a big thing.

Also what's with your GRR Martin meme you're trying to start? WOW isn't the only game out there. If you want to talk real content additions that aren't WOW you can talk about Wildstar, Rift and FFXIV if you like.
 

Xaxius

Lord Nagafen Raider
531
147
No other game really added that much 'stuff' over time, because it's really not content, it's just extra scripted events or minigames added to the game. It's cool stuff, but it's not impressive or "expansion" worthy stuff.
This really doesn't make any sense. Just because you don't like it and it's not progressive, doesn't invalidate it as content. Granted the content GW2 adds is grindy, zergy, random and shallow... but it's still content. :p

It's usually really pretty through.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,391
285
The commentary here about the shift away from exploration and toward smaller chunked event oriented content never made me entirely happy BUT, remember they have added a lot more content than you are giving them credit for:

You have the two SAB boxes, great Halloween and Christmas ad-ons and the wonderful Marionette boss fight (and the not so wonderful Lion's Arch fight). You have Zephyr Sanctum, Southsun, Edge of the Mists, three new fractal dungeons (indeed you could count all ten or so fractals as new content since it's post release), two new SPvP maps, and Queens Pavilion for new zones (I would not really count Kessex Hills as it's not changed all that much). You have two major bosses added to the open world that are massively challenging. Not to mention hundreds of little story changes along the way that you could do if you were logging in during the two weeks they were live.

I don't know of any game that ever did as much in that period of time. I'd love an expansion too but as I have said before:

Content delivered in comic book form is terrific even if some people prefer George RR Martin One book every 3 years (ala WoW).
I keep seeing that comic book analogy, but that's not what they did for the last year and a half. Unless in your country the comics you buy are all confiscated and destroyed when the next issue comes out. I would love to read me some marionette fight comic right now but duh. That's a huge issue really, the thing I hated most about living story, and I'm really glad they are changing that. Now for Season 2, you can call comic book form. Right down to being able to pay a bit extra for back issues, and it's great change.

You also list a ton of shit that's temp (recurring) as new content. You reduce WoW to the expansions but they do have content updates (too fucking few for their scrooge mcduck money hats but still). WoW has all recurring temp content as well covering like half of the year (darkmoon, fishing stuff, a multi-week event for every holiday under the sun and then some). I dunno, list seems biased, but maybe your glass is just half-full. And I'm not in the "quit after 2 months" crowd, I played every GW2 release until last Halloween, missed the fractals and christmas releases, then played again since the marionette release. I like the game, I can still critize the aspects I find flawed.

On the other hand yea of course fractals count, they were added like 3 months after release and are their biggest addition since the game launched. The same patch even added southsun too, even with a huge event to introduce the zone (although it was pretty empty until they reworked it).

I wonder if I wouldn't be happier if they just delivered content on monthly basis instead of every fortnight. It's really hard to keep playing continuously, unless you are working on your legendary, since most of the other things are just new skins that don't make your character stronger and there's rather limited set of things to do if you want ascended gear, so every patch turned into "weeklong grind to get new skin for my backpack"
If you look at season 1 I think monthly releases with a bit more meat would've been better (although some releases did last a month, some others only 2 weeks). Going forward into season 2 it kinda depends on how much of the content you retain indefinitely after unlocking it (I'm hoping 80%ish). If you can replay most of it whenever you like they can patch weekly for all I care, but I would still vote for monthly to allow for more QA and polish (some S1 releases really showed a lack of QA). In the same vein, S1 was very much a circus show for a new backpack every other week, but with the S2 stuff being permanent they do much more then just wasnt feasible for 2-4 week content.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
Every bit of paradigm breaking, outside the leveling, GW2 made the game worse in the end. It would have been a fine game with tanks, healers, a level grind, and a yearly expansion cycle.
 
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Does choosing an Order matter for anything other than armor atheistic?
There are some areas to access but there is only some lore in them. Nothing major. Those ten levels of living story are really good though and you should do them all at some point.
 
368
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I duno, Rift added more content than that. It's like saying WOW adds a ton of content everytime there is a holiday event or darkmoon faire. Or rift added a ton of stuff by adding new styles of Rifts.

No other game really added that much 'stuff' over time, because it's really not content, it's just extra scripted events or minigames added to the game. It's cool stuff, but it's not impressive or "expansion" worthy stuff.

I guess you can count that dragon event they added as a big thing.

Also what's with your GRR Martin meme you're trying to start? WOW isn't the only game out there. If you want to talk real content additions that aren't WOW you can talk about Wildstar, Rift and FFXIV if you like.
Come on. Neither of those games adds that much content. WoW in particular is awful at adding things and only the competition of GW2 has sped them up.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,534
24,150
The combat is great, but there's no reason they couldn't let people be dedicated healers if they wanted to. They have a healing stat that you can stack, but it just doesn't do very much compared to stacking damage stats.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Come on. Neither of those games adds that much content. WoW in particular is awful at adding things and only the competition of GW2 has sped them up.
How many weeks of a living story do you equate to a 10 man raid zone with 6 bosses or a 20 man with 15?

How about a dungeon? New classes? New zone.?

I would compare a whole season of living stories about equal with a dungeon or small raid.
 

TheYanger

Bronze Knight of the Realm
264
30
How many weeks of a living story do you equate to a 10 man raid zone with 6 bosses or a 20 man with 15?

How about a dungeon? New classes? New zone.?

I would compare a whole season of living stories about equal with a dungeon or small raid.
That's very generous of you, I would equate the ENTIRETY of content they added with living stories to basically: whichever jumping puzzles were in there (one every patch approximately?), and some graphics you had to grind boring shit to unlock. That's it.

Whoever said 'oh you may not consider it content' can eat a fucking dick, anyone that considers the ability to grind fucking mobs or some menial shit event for a week to no real end besides a piece of transmog is functionally retarded. By that logic any time they add a new daily quest in wow that I can grind they've just matched an entire living story patch. Shit, this patch added 5 daily quests? JUST OUTDID 3 MONTHS OF GUILD WARS FUCK YEAH!

Nobody needs patches every two weeks unless the content you're putting in is so god damn boring that people can't pursue it for longer than that. The fact that most living stories could be EXHAUSTED of content within a couple of hours is completely telling - they put themselves on a schedule that almost entirely precludes making it interesting in the least. Oh, it takes you a week of solid grinding to finish it, but by then you're nto doing NEW content, you're doing the same content 200 times to get your cool wind catcher for your back or whatever. People bitch about having to run Siege of Orgrimmar for a year, but fuck dude I would rather run siege 52 times, and have legitimate fun the first 10 or 20 of those, than do a GW living story cycle where I do the same thing HUNDREDS of times and maybe have fun once.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,391
285
I would have a more positive view about the grind you mention if it happened in new locations. if they want to use old areas (which I'm fine with, also love the downleveling feature) then they need to use event chains, scavenger hunt-style stuff or story steps. Grinding at the same ground spawn that triggers mob in Dredgehaunt every other month, just with xmas/hologram/aetherblade themed mobs got old. Preferably, they need to bite down and provide new zones more often then once every 2 years (only permanent zone addition since release is southsun cove).

Put out a new map, expand on it with 3 months of story and content additions while transitioning through it, then open another map and repeat. That way they have their bi-weekly episode content without turning the bore up to 11. Of course they can still place story steps and such in old zones, just not exclusively, and especially not the same fucking spawn points every time. Do that for two years and the comparison to other games looks better too, since there are all those new zones that became permanent.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
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My issue with GW2 is the dev team was so damn full of themselves they wouldn't listen to what players were telling them when it was still early enough to change.

I was the ~200th alpha tester and am the one the got the majority of players on this forum into the alpha/beta. I played the game for a year before it released and then for another ~6 months after it was released.

All I could think was a big fat "We told you so" when I saw the steep decline that GW2 experienced.

I have no idea what they've changed since I stopped playing but I know they wanted it to be a competitive eSport game which is what dictated many of their decisions. They gambled and failed horribly on that front.

The testers told them thousands of times that limiting their PvP to capture point maps was a seriously bad decision.
We told them the PvP needed hooks: rankings/ladders/statistics etc.
We told them GW1 had a very good formula in place with how the Hall of Heroes (Heroes Ascent) and how Guild Battles were setup. These were the 2 hardcore PvP modes in GW1 and THEY WORKED. For some assinine reason the GW2 team decided to throw away shit that worked and do retarded shit. If they wanted to be inventive they could have hit a gold mine if they did what Smite is doing. GW2's systems could definitely work as first person MOBA. Too bad nobody thought of it back then, but the devs would have been too stubborn to listen anyway.
I personally loved and still love Heroes Ascent & Guild Battles from GW1 but I never play that game anymore. If they improved those formats and implemented them into GW2 it might actually make me play GW2 again.

Regarding PvE... I can't describe the pain I felt every time a new bad decision was implemented. Their focus was always on gating and gold sinks and ignoring any sort of progression. They soon realized their flaw and added the ascended armor after the game was live for a while but it was too little too late and it was only half the equation. They still lacked any meaningful end-game zones. GW1 had The Underworld and Fissure of Woe and shit but GW2 lacks anything of substance. The Dynamic events were a nice novelty but were easily figured out and fail to work properly with low population. The open world dragons are purely zerg fests.

WvW is the last main area of content and was the one everyone was most hopeful for. I spent more time testing WvW then actually playing it on Live. Myself and many other testers wrote essays on the format. Again, devs were set in their ways and wouldn't listen to the players. WvW needed progression, rankings, advancement, etc. All ignored. WvW was too easy to snowball - how many times did the map always look like 1 color? How many times is the match over days in advance simply because the other servers wouldn't be able to catch up in points? This all occurred in alpha/beta and never fixed.
WvW was built for zergs.

All that said, GW2 is a gorgeous game. I love the art. In fact, they are so obsessed with the aesthetics, they probably spent more time designing & coding the bland cut-scenes than putting any amount of thought into progression & hooks.

The PvE is good enough to experience once. I can't see much reason stick around, though.
Since the Dev team decided to not have raiding or guild battles or much of anything that requires a guild or group, the game feels like you're playing a solo player game. Everyone just does their own little quests or hops into the lifeless zerg to farm WvW or Dynamic events.


Again, this was my experience and Im sure some things have changed in the 1.5 years since I logged in.