Health Care Thread

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Loser Araysar

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I just wish these guys would make up their minds as to what falls under the fascist label. You can't lump Islam, Nazi's, Mussolini, Commies, and liberals all together as fascists. It doesn't make any sense, lol. Words have meanings.
Its awesome because they think that fascism = Nazis. So obviously the leap in logic is Muslims = Nazis = Fascists, hence "islamo-fascism" whatever that means. I dont think any of these morons understand that there is hardly a better example of a perfect fascist model than United States of America.


Fascism: pretty much America to a T

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
 

BoldW

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no, you guys are right.

Pakistani teen shot for backing girls' education awarded EU human rights prize - but failed to capture the Nobel Peace Prize?* - NY Daily News
She deserved it.
Prevalence of female genital mutilation by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Women need to know their place.
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History of Jihad against the Americans (2001 - ongoing)
Christians Facing Genocide in Muslim World :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I could go on but there's no possible argument that would get you to change your minds or even get you to think about what you're saying.
If only we ignore brutal dictators and countries that believe in horrible, horrible things, they'll go away.

I'm done with y'all. The fact that you actually support these countries, and think we can coexist with them when they flat out tell us they want us dead for the singular reason we don't agree with them, amazes me. You should move there. You'd like it.
 

Arbitrary

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Excellent! Now explain how a couple hundred thousand civilian deaths and a few million displaced Iraqis helped any of that. How did we make the Middle East better by blowing Iraq to shit and leaving.
 

TheBeagle

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I'm done with y'all. The fact that you actually support these countries, and think we can coexist with them when they flat out tell us they want us dead for the singular reason we don't agree with them, amazes me. You should move there. You'd like it.
WTF is this guy talking about?

Who supports brutal dictators? If I don't support invading 55 different countries that are ruled by brutal dictators then I now somehow support them?

Dude, you are out of your god damned mind. We aren't the world's police. We can't right every wrong on the planet. We are broke. We have our own citizens to take care of. Your idea of carrying out social justice at the end of an M-16 is perverse and has been shown time and time again to be an absolute failure of an ideology.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
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no, you guys are right.

Pakistani teen shot for backing girls??T education awarded EU human rights prize ??" but failed to capture the Nobel Peace Prize?* - NY Daily News
She deserved it.
Prevalence of female genital mutilation by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Women need to know their place.
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History of Jihad against the Americans (2001 - ongoing)
Christians Facing Genocide in Muslim World :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I could go on but there's no possible argument that would get you to change your minds or even get you to think about what you're saying.
If only we ignore brutal dictators and countries that believe in horrible, horrible things, they'll go away.

I'm done with y'all. The fact that you actually support these countries, and think we can coexist with them when they flat out tell us they want us dead for the singular reason we don't agree with them, amazes me. You should move there. You'd like it.
I dont think anyone claimed that we support or defend all these countries. I think we were merely pointing out how fucking stupid it is to pick countries at random to invade based on whatever "freedumb" argument we feel like peddling at the moment.

Tell us more about your worldview. Who's your favorite author? Publication? Book? Magazine? Do you want a president you can have a beer with?

P.S. And name me at least one "islamo-fascist" country pleaaaaaase!!!!
 

BoldW

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When you give no solutions to anything and only attack my position while making wild assumptions, you guys are no better than the teatards you pretend to hate so much.

I say it's good we removed Saddam. You say I'm crazy and attack my position, therefore I can only assume you disagree with me.
I say regimes which mistreat their own people and want to kill us all are a threat, you laugh at me, therefore I can only assume you disagree with me.

All the while you make wild assumptions about my position based on nothing I actually said. I never once said that we should be attacking any other countries, or that we should have even attacked Iraq/Afghanistan. I said it's good that they're gone and that we should look to removing other totalitarian regimes, which you disagreed with, so of course I'm going to think you support them because you don't want them gone. You disagree with me, and that's fine, but you haven't given any reason why, other than lol you're stupid. I don't know why I would expect anything else from you bunch. But let's be clear. I never once mentioned Nazis, Aray did (since he has some morbid fascination with them), nor did I say we should be world police,or ever imply anything about social justice at the end of an M-16. I'm sorry you guys are so bored you have to make shit up to amuse yourselves. I'm not surprised, of course. Aray, tell me where I mentioned Nazis. Beagle, show me where I said we should invade any other country. Go on. You wonder why this board sucks ass? It's because if someone posts a position you don't agree with, you immediately imply shit and then laugh at it. You are literally laughing at shit you made up.

(to be fair, I think there was one or two actually thoughtful posts, definitely not from Araysar or Beagle - Which reminds me, Aray, one of my favorite books is Darwin's chronicle of his voyage on the HMS Beagle - A couple parts bring me to tears).
 

Loser Araysar

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When you give no solutions to anything and only attack my position while making wild assumptions, you guys are no better than the teatards you pretend to hate so much.
You want my solution to Iraq?

Dont invade.

I love how your position is basically "Doing something stupid is better than doing nothing as long as we are doing something"
 

Loser Araysar

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Re: nazis

We asked you to clarify your position on islamo-fascism, you dodge us both times and then get indignant when we start drawing our own conclusions on what you could have possibly meant. I love how you spew out two dozen neo-con talking points straight out of the PNAC manual and then get upset when people assume your ideology shares the rest of that platform.
 

Loser Araysar

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TheBeagle

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You want my solution to Iraq?

Dont invade.

I love how your position is basically "Doing something stupid is better than doing nothing as long as we are doing something"
Tad logic. Make up a crazy theory with as little evidence as possible and when confronted with people calling him tadtarded come back with "well what's YOUR theory genius?"

I never once said that we should be attacking any other countries
I said it's good that they're gone and that we should look to removing other totalitarian regimes
In the span of two sentences you completely contradicted yourself. At this point you are just babbling. I don't know why your vagina is so sandy today, but maybe it's time to take a breather.
 

BoldW

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In the span of two sentences you completely contradicted yourself. At this point you are just babbling. I don't know why your vagina is so sandy today, but maybe it's time to take a breather.
Do you even English? How is that contradictory? There are other ways to remove a regime than militarily attacking it. You do know that removing a regime and attacking a regime are two different things, or are you that historically and politically retarded? Just because I'm glad one regime is gone does not mean I want to remove others in the same manner. In no way did I say this, explicitly or implicitly. This one's on you. Learn some comprehension.

You want my solution to Iraq?
Dont invade.
Don't Obamacareghazi.

Did I Araysar properly?
 

Loser Araysar

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Bro, you gonna tell us about these islamo fascists?
 

Zhaun_sl

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Isn't Saudi Arabia far more theocratic and is even a monarchy, so arguably more fascist as well, compared to Iraq's old regime?
 

TrollfaceDeux

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Iraq was i think very secular. Saddam didn't tolerate religious fervor and asked complete obedience to his party. Saudi Arabia is a complete theocracy, combined with Arabian tribal tradition of tributes and family lineage.

Think Bush was able to invade Iraq because USA was able to isolate Iraq from the rest of the world, including Russia, for a very long, long time. With exception of a few French oil companies, none did any business with Iraq. Untapped resource was too much of an allure. American energy companies (Chevron/Exxon/etc) were eying for access to these resources.

Same is true with Ukraine conflict at the moment. I think Ukraine has a ton of shale gas that's being explored right now.

so yeh, who knows. invading Iran and NK is like invading a whole other regions at the same time, unlike Iraq.
 

frqkjt_sl

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Iraq WMD arguments, seriously? I go away for a day, and this is the level of discussion remaining?

I'm interested in this topic: regardless of whether ACA increases or decreases federal spending, it does increase access to healthcare, and how that changes how healthcare is paid for. We have things like premium increases for some, and subsidies for others.My central thesis is that the particular distrubtion of costs of the new system unwisely penalizes those who create wealth, for the benefit of those who do not, and that the former group is already experiencing difficulties.Furthermore, we can consider what implications such policy has for the future.

Re: Obamacare enrollments at 7 million
This entire discussion is bullshit, just like the whole website thing. Who gives a fuck? The website will eventually work, and most people will eventually sign up.

Both Dems and Repubs have incentive to keep discussion of real ACA issues sidelined, and so public debate on ACA is a circus, where common sense is suspended. Why? They're either bought or clueless. In either case, just play the blame game, get re-elected, and live the good life.

Common sense like: businesses pass their costs on to those who buy their products/services, and 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'. It infects even intelligent people. We had Vaclav here telling us insurance co's will pay subsidies out of their profits (as if they will just absorb the cost rather than pass it on in officially sanctioned ways - to the young, healthy, successful, and entrepreneurs). hint: insurance co profits are guaranteed by the ACA (i.e. they're not paying subsidies out of profits).

Nevermind that the middle class is shrinking, and we can only expect more and more Americans to need that subsidy (leaving fewer to pay for the subsidy - no free lunch). Just have those few who aren't yet on the gov't dole (except those execs and corps who qualify 'too big to fail') pay more! It's a can't fail plan. Account for the fact that the true, financially independent middle class disappears by redefining middle class as 'median income', and don't consider that purchasing power of median income is in steady decline, to the point that median income earners need a handout just to afford health insurance for their families (my grandfather would have been ashamed). What does middle class have to do with being able to afford a certain quality of life or financial independence anyway?(/s)

This is a cultural problem. There is not a purely political solution. Americans are not ready to face up to the new reality. 1) we're getting fucking poor, and it's our fault, 2) you don't fix 'poor' by going deeper into debt and taking gov't handouts on the back of wealth creators (middle class, entrepreneurs), while crony capitalist parasites at 'too big to fail' institutions destroy what remains of a free market***.

There is no mega-conspiracy. Just a lot of people who don't want to admit the truth and would rather find scapegoats, a media eager to give such people exactly what they want (It's the Reds! No, it's the Blues!), opportunistic corporations chasing profits by any means, in an environment where they're rarely held accountable, and flawed ideology determining public policy (Keynesian econ, Marxism, etc).

Countdown to denouncement of me as a partisan 5... 4.. (He's a Red! Aaaaaughibbrgubugbugrguburgle)

Meanwhile in 1% land:
Jon Corzine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
jon corzine beach - Google Search

***I realize healthcare did not exist in a free market pre-ACA. This does not impact the truth of the above statement. The point is not that ACA does not reduce costs; the point is rather how ACA distributes costs is unwise, and perhaps even that we may not be able to afford what the ACA promises.