Health Care Thread

chaos_sl said:

Bro you have EIGHT? Oh my god, I am never complaining about 3 ever again.

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He's single-handedly doing his part to keep the Republicans relevant. Someone's gotta counteract those welfare queens.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Nah, the more kids he has the more government aid he gets.

The same government aid that he doesn't think anyone but him should get.

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Your so ignorant. My girls eat solid foods now, were no longer on WIC, and we receive $183 a month in food stamps for 5 children, which lasts about 4 days. You really need to move out of moms basement and start living life to understand how things work in the real world.

Ohh yea, we have government loans for school as were both full time college students. In case you didn't know, unless your fucking independently wealthy, the only way to get school loans is through the government. So we have no choice. We are not living large through Uncle Sam you ignorant fuck. My wife works full time and goes to school full time, and I work part time and go to school full time. We get a whopping $183 bucks a month through the government.

chaos_sl said:

Bro you have EIGHT? Oh my god, I am never complaining about 3 ever again.

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Hah yea but only 5 count. (As if thats a huge improvement). We just bought a house and moved out of our 700sqft apartment though, so things are looking up.

Don't have kids you can't afford?

Merlin_sl said:

Your so ignorant. My girls eat solid foods now, were no longer on WIC, and we receive $183 a month in food stamps for 5 children, which lasts about 4 days. You really need to move out of moms basement and start living life to understand how things work in the real world.

Ohh yea, we have government loans for school as were both full time college students. In case you didn't know, unless your fucking independently wealthy, the only way to get school loans is through the government. So we have no choice. We are not living large through Uncle Sam you ignorant fuck. My wife works full time and goes to school full time, and I work part time and go to school full time. We get a whopping $183 bucks a month through the government.

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Would it piss you off to know that I get more money per month on my link card for just me than you get for a family of 7?

Merlin_sl said:

Honestly, I don't know. I don't hear singing praises from the European model. Brain drain, long waiting times, etc.....Obamacare sucks. Maybe a mix of the two? I'm honestly not educated enough in that to even pretend to form an opinion on the perfect model Beagle.

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Smartest thing I've ever heard out of you.

Seriously, find something else to do. Or actually read what the aca does (in a book) instead of 4 paragraph articles on the blaze all day every day.

Otherwise just shut the fuck up.

Merlin_sl said:

Honestly, I don't know. I don't hear singing praises from the European model. Brain drain, long waiting times, etc.....Obamacare sucks. Maybe a mix of the two? I'm honestly not educated enough in that to even pretend to form an opinion on the perfect model Beagle.

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Hasn't the whole "wait time" aspect been debunked thousands of times for the Canadian and European model? People that you know, that actually live in those countries, have said the opposite of what our shitty agenda-based news and politics have been spouting for years. I have heard nothing but praise from people from/living in Canada personally and I also have a bunch of family that lives in England (where my parents and their family are from) that have had numerous major surgeries (one with cancer) that had very little problems. My dad's cancer surgery in the states, in a heavily populated city (top 30), had a longer wait time than my uncle before the ACA ever started. That surgery also costs him roughly $15k out of pocket after insurance coverage. Gotta love those $10 paper towels in the ICU!

The amount of misinformation and agenda spouted about healthcare blows my mind, and people just gobble it up. But i guess it should be obvious, the people of the US gobble up Christianity and Catholicism like no other country. Gotta love those fairytailes!

Lost Virtue_sl said:

Hasn't the whole "wait time" aspect been debunked thousands of times for the Canadian and European model? People that you know, that actually live in those countries, have said the opposite of what our shitty agenda-based news and politics have been spouting for years. I have heard nothing but praise from people from/living in Canada personally and I also have a bunch of family that lives in England (where my parents and their family are from) that have had numerous major surgeries (one with cancer) that had very little problems. My dad's cancer surgery in the states, in a heavily populated city (top 30), had a longer wait time than my uncle before the ACA ever started.

The amount of misinformation and agenda spouted about healthcare blows my mind, and people just gobble it up. But i guess it should be obvious, the people of the US gobble up Christianity and Catholicism like no other country. Gotta love those fairytailes!

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It's a partial truth on the "wait times" - for cosmetic surgeries and minor quality of life surgeries (stuff like knee surgeries - stuff you can live with a wait on, it's just how long you're using mobility devices instead of walking normally) it usually does get a bit longer in most of those nations. But for all the "scary, I need help now!" type cases they're almost always faster or tying us - usually faster.

I have recently begun to think that one of the big reasons the European/Canadian social nets work so well - and they have the money to fund them - is essentially because we take care of their defense in the US. We spend 10x as much on defense as any other Euro country, and 2-4x as much as a share of GDP. So, all that money that would be going to defense gets poured straight back into their citizens in the form of generous pensions, those healthcare systems, etc.

Of course, there are also higher taxes, a bunch of other factors at play, but part of it has to be the expenses on defense that the US shoulders for the world. And those nets do not help when Russia is at the gate and all your militaries put together don't match up, and the US is like, uhhhh, yeah, that's your problem.

I am all for such a model in the US, but the cost is something that would be prohibitive, I think, without either a slew of new taxes (hi VAT!), a vast cut in defense spending (which screws half the world), and mucking with something that is like what, 25% of our economy (health care = big money).

Somewhere around 10% of that 25% you're quoting is in administration costs that would basically disappear in single payer (they'd not disappear completely but the majority would) - and there's no reason we need to be the World Police, other places can afford to defend themselves.

Heck, half the places we defend these days don't want us there and don't appreciate the "defense".

Yeah, I am not even sure of the 25% number, I can't find the article where I saw it now. But still, it is a huge portion of the economy to tinker with and you have to imagine there will be repercussions.

I would have to do a deep dive into various numbers, but my basic hypothesis is that many countries actually can't afford to defend themselves due to the cost incurred from their social programs, but they don't have to, because they are de facto defended by the US.

In France the public insurance (s?curit? sociale) has an administrative cost of 3% while the private insurers are above 20%. The US spend more per capita, and in % of the GDP than any other country, so you can't blame whatever problem on the lack of funding, so as a starter private sector is 20% more expensive.
Another thing is that median income in France is 33k USD/y and a physician generalist is paid about 130k USD/y on average, while in the US the median income is 28k USD/y and the average salary of a physician generalist is about 200k USD/y, that's 50% more (or 80% if you compare to the median income). I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that doctor are paid nearly twice as much as in european countries (I would expect most other european country to be roughly the same as France).
So I've only looked at administrative cost (+20% / gdp) and a generalist physician (+80% / GDP), but I would expect other costs to be inflated as well (drugs mostly, then) and that would pretty much explain why the us spend more per capita than any other country rather than the easy "americans are fat".

Vaclav_sl said:

Heck, half the places we defend these days don't want us there and don't appreciate the "defense".

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In public they claim this. In private they need us very badly.

Agraza_sl said:

In public they claim this. In private they need us very badly.

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Shrug, I'm sure it depends on each place to a degree -List of United States Army installations in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia- 42 just in Germany alone seems excessive and at least some unneeded.

I'm not just talking about active FOBs, more talking about the old school ones from WW2 era that are pretty dated - now admittedly Germany is the most extreme example I'm sure by far - but still, I'm sure we could get away with 10 in Germany. Germany isn't that big in the first place.

BBC News - Carson Allen Caesarean death caused by cut to head during surgery

Sounds like they should use electronic records.

But what does that say about us as Americans to be willing to fund endless wars, death and destruction but scoff at paying for healthcare and subsequently the veterans we send to war?

Edited for stupid autocorrect

Gurgeh_sl said:

In France the public insurance (s?curit? sociale) has an administrative cost of 3% while the private insurers are above 20%. The US spend more per capita, and in % of the GDP than any other country, so you can't blame whatever problem on the lack of funding, so as a starter private sector is 20% more expensive.
Another thing is that median income in France is 33k USD/y and a physician generalist is paid about 130k USD/y on average, while in the US the median income is 28k USD/y and the average salary of a physician generalist is about 200k USD/y, that's 50% more (or 80% if you compare to the median income). I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that doctor are paid nearly twice as much as in european countries (I would expect most other european country to be roughly the same as France).
So I've only looked at administrative cost (+20% / gdp) and a generalist physician (+80% / GDP), but I would expect other costs to be inflated as well (drugs mostly, then) and that would pretty much explain why the us spend more per capita than any other country rather than the easy "americans are fat".

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The doctors in Europe also are pretty much 100% reimbursed for their cost of college, med school, and further training (past and ongoing training), so you need to put that into perspective. Those doctors are also void of Malpractice as it is paid/provided by the public funds. SO yes, pure salary alone there is quite a difference, but then you have to factor in the perks that European doctors receive.

The largest health issue is due to the cost of healthcare in the US, we are a reactive system. We only go to doctors when something is wrong, not for basic health checkups that could potentially save a lot of money/agony down the road. It may not be nearly the same thing but put it into perspective like this based on my own personal story. I didn't got to the dentist for 3 years as my teeth never bothered me. I finally went and in the last 4 months, I have spent nearly $4k out of pocket (maxed my insurance in the first month) to get dental work done such as root canals, crowns (2), fillings, etc. If I had gone for checkups during that time, I may have spared myself the crowns and root canals by getting much less expensive fillings. Now, this is dentist-related procedures/billing which is a fraction of what you would spend for more standard bodily stuff.