Health Care Thread

karma · Dec 17, 2015

Our local hopsital (less than a mile from the house) and BCBS were not able/willing? to come to an agreement, so now the hospital is no longer "in network". If Im dying they will still see me, but if I can drive an hour before I die, they would prefer I do that.

This in network out of network bullshit is tiresome, Im going to channel General Anthony for a moment and say we need to fuck some shit up and start all over.

Rescorla_sl · Dec 17, 2015

Quaid_sl said:
lol.

Also, the country with the best healthcare technology and practitioners on the planet has the 33rd healthiest population. It couldn't be because your system itself is broken. Nope!

I would be more than welcome to read your recommendations on how you would use the government to forcibly change the lifestyle habits of Americans. I agree with you its something we should be ashamed. I'm just not sure how in a free society you can force people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Rescorla_sl · Dec 17, 2015

Quaid_sl said:
You can't even imagine a national healthcare system where your doctor acts as something more than a treatment machine, can you? You don't have a concept of preventative measures being taken to manage your ongoing health. Visiting a doctor several times per year just to talk about your general health. You think our doctors don't give us shit and help us with plans if they notice us gaining weight or if our cholesterol is rising? Do you think this kind of prevention is cheaper that waiting for catastrophic health concerns leading to massive treatments?

Do you not see how free psychiatric care could prevent self medication via illegal drug use? How that has cost saving influences to a socialized health care system?

I'm honestly at a loss. No wonder the US is in the hole that it's in regarding health care. Your leaders have convinced half the country to ram their own heads up their asses on the topic.

Give me a break. I'm honestly at a loss to find you making such silly assertions. If you are fat and lazy and your doctor tells you to go on a diet and start exercising to lose weight or you risk diabetes or a heart attack, it's not his or the healthcare system's fault if you don't possess discipline, judgment and basic common sense to take care of yourself. What does it say about a person who needs a doctor to even tell them that in the first place? Shouldn't you be able to figure that out on your own?

Abefroman · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
I would be more than welcome to read your recommendations on how you would use the government to forcibly change the lifestyle habits of Americans. I agree with you its something we should be ashamed. I'm just not sure how in a free society you can force people to live a healthy lifestyle.

He didn't say a thing about the government forcing people. He is strictly speaking of having health insurance and care available to everyone which allows everyone to go to a doctor. Someone calling you a fatass isn't as influential as a doctor telling you if you don't get your shit together you will die. It also allows things to be caught much earlier which can prevent things from getting much more expensive or life threatening. America, the country where we treat cars better then our own bodies.

Quaid · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
Give me a break. I'm honestly at a loss to find you making such silly assertions. If you are fat and lazy and your doctor tells you to go on a diet and start exercising to lose weight or you risk diabetes or a heart attack, it's not his or the healthcare system's fault if you don't possess discipline, judgment and basic common sense to take care of yourself. What does it say about a person who needs a doctor to even tell them that in the first place? Shouldn't you be able to figure that out on your own?

Do you think Americans are inherently worse people than Canadians? The French? Germans? The Japanese? Or any of the other 28 countries who blow you out of the water on public health? That's what you think is going on? More Americans are just 'lazy'?

Keep on truckin' I suppose.

Quaid · Dec 17, 2015

Three years ago at a routine checkup I casually mentioned to my doc that I had picked up smoking again. He asked me if I wanted to quit, I said yes, and handed me a 2 month supply of Nic-patches for free. He also gave me some reading material to help, and made an appointment to check on my progress 60 days later. I was smoke free 90 days later.

I wasn't forced, but I was helped. That single act probably saved me or my government tens of thousands of dollars.

Rescorla_sl · Dec 17, 2015

Quaid_sl said:
Do you think Americans are inherently worse people than Canadians? The French? Germans? The Japanese? Or any of the other 28 countries who blow you out of the water on public health? That's what you think is going on? More Americans are just 'lazy'?

Keep on truckin' I suppose.

How difficult is for you to comprehend? Poor lifestyle choices negatively affect your health. As a society I think it's fairly obvious American citizens make poorer lifestyle choices compared to other countries, especially when it comes to drug abuse.

Quaid · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
How difficult is for you to comprehend? Poor lifestyle choices negatively affect your health. As a society I think it's fairly obvious American citizens make poorer lifestyle choices compared to other countries, especially when it comes to drug abuse.

Why do you think Americans choose to use illegal drugs at a higher rate than other nations?

Are Americans weaker than others? Are they lazier? Less intelligent?

Or, just maybe, Americans are self medicating because they aren't cared for by their country. Who knows?

Frenzied Wombat · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
Did you just fabricate the percentage number of 1% being able to afford quality healthcare out of thin air? That is nothing but absurd hyperbole and renders any point you made invalid. I'll debunk that easily.

Roughly 10-12% of the US workforce are Union members. These workers are traditionally loyal Democrats voters. One of the perks of being in a union is access to "Cadillac" health plans, which are considered the best healthcare plans out there. Many non-Union companies who offer healthcare as a benefit give their employees a choice between basic plans and Cadillac plans. My employer gives that option and I went with the Cadillac plan. I am definitely not a super rich 1%er.

When you combine the union workers along with everyone else who has Cadillac plans, that number is well over 1%.

That's not what I said. Someone paying cash is not the same as your "Cadillac" reference. I have a gold tier plan through work that has a 0$ in network annual deductible and $2000 out of network one. It also has something called "whiteglove health" where I can call a 1-800 number from anywhere in the city and have a nurse practitioner show up at my location within two hours to make basic diagnoses and issue prescriptions-- at no charge. Yet even this doesn't approach the quality of service I am referencing for people who pay cash, either locally or through medical tourism. Someone that travels and pays cash gets a) a limo at the airport, b) NO wait at doctors office/hospital, a private room, a dedicated nurse, and recovery at a hotel and/or by the beach depending on location. Case in point, despite my "gold tier" plan, when Obamacare hit the scene my internist (who is rated top 10 in Dallas) decided he wouldn't see patients outside a new "premier plan" service he setup and that he has a new doctor on staff for patients that did not want to pay for the plan. In exchange for $3000/year, you get to continue to see him, as well as getting access to a plethora of other perks, like same day appointments and his cell phone number. This is the type of service that is the 1%, and this is the service that exceeds what you can get in Canadia. Your "Cadillac" plans make no difference in terms of quality of service, they just have lower deductibles and co-pays, and may cover services like IVF. You want to go to that top tier doc out of network? Pay the fuck up.

Cad · Dec 17, 2015

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
That's not what I said. Someone paying cash is not the same as your "Cadillac" reference. I have a gold tier plan through work that has a 0$ in network annual deductible and $2000 out of network one. It also has something called "whiteglove health" where I can call a 1-800 number from anywhere in the city and have a nurse practitioner show up at my location within two hours to make basic diagnoses and issue prescriptions-- at no charge. Yet even this doesn't approach the quality of service I am referencing for people who pay cash, either locally or through medical tourism. Someone that travels and pays cash gets a) a limo at the airport, b) NO wait at doctors office/hospital, a private room, a dedicated nurse, and recovery at a hotel and/or by the beach depending on location. Case in point, despite my "gold tier" plan, when Obamacare hit the scene my internist (who is rated top 10 in Dallas) decided he wouldn't see patients outside a new "premier plan" service he setup and that he has a new doctor on staff for patients that did not want to pay for the plan. In exchange for $3000/year, you get to continue to see him, as well as getting access to a plethora of other perks, like same day appointments and his cell phone number. This is the type of service that is the 1%, and this is the service that exceeds what you can get in Canadia. Your "Cadillac" plans make no difference in terms of quality of service, they just have lower deductibles and co-pays, and may cover services like IVF. You want to go to that top tier doc out of network? Pay the fuck up.

Or marry an asian so that half the in-laws are doctors and you can call them 24/7 for free. I have an in law thats a pain doc, one thats a radiologist, one thats a familly doc, and one thats a pathologist. A cousin is a pharmacist.

Living in HP a bunch of my kids friends parents are all doctors too and very friendly. I wouldn't pay extra to have an internist on call, I'd call my brother in law and be like, call in this prescription or I pound you at Thanksgiving, faggot.

Frenzied Wombat · Dec 17, 2015

Cad_sl said:
Or marry an asian so that half the in-laws are doctors and you can call them 24/7 for free. I have an in law thats a pain doc, one thats a radiologist, one thats a familly doc, and one thats a pathologist. A cousin is a pharmacist.

Living in HP a bunch of my kids friends parents are all doctors too and very friendly. I wouldn't pay extra to have an internist on call, I'd call my brother in law and be like, call in this prescription or I pound you at Thanksgiving, faggot.

Well, my stepdad is a neurosurgeon right here in Dallas, so in terms of accessibility I have no issues getting appointments with specialists when a problem crops up. He just tells me to call X specialist's office and I throw his name out there and I get a priority appointment. I absolutely *hate* bothering my stepdad for any non-critical medical issue though, probably for the same reason that I hate it when family calls me about their bullshit IT problems. For me paying the 3K is worth it-- I have stomach and back problems and was spending way too much time in the waiting room and missing time at work. Now I just roll up, throw the keys at the valet at the hospital, and walk straight into the examination room. I used to have to spend way too much fucking time getting the doctor or nurse to deal with prescription renewals and pre-approvals, now some "premier plan" admin wench at my doctors office sits on the phone with BCBS and deals with it. But again my situation is atypical, costs money on TOP of great insurance, and demonstrates to Rescorla what the cost of truly superior service is..

But if you can find me a hot Asian with doctor relatives I'm game. Stepdad is transitioning into retirement and I'm using my emergency wildcard.

a_skeleton_03 · Dec 17, 2015

Well happy Kwanza to me.

Sitting here at the airport and just got a call from the hospital and they overcharged me $1500 for curing my cancer so they are mailing me a check. Guess we need to reduce curing cancer down to $7k. Totally unreasonable.

They were doing a check on all their patients and saw that I hadn't applied to a special program for Neulasta so they took the liberty and called for an address to mail me a check.

Vaclav · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
Thanks for taking the time to type all of that out. Here is all you really need to know. The number of Union members with access to Cadillac plans is so large that for multiple national elections the Democrats have kicked the can down the road and delayed the penalty in fear that it will hurt the Democrat party's electoral hope. They did it again just last night. My guess is they saw how much Union support was going Trump's way.

"For multiple national elections"? The term "Cadillac Plan" wasn't something even referenced to in any law until THIS UPCOMING ELECTION. (Well that's mostly true, it TECHNICALLY was referenced in law as of the passing of the ACA - but it doesn't do anything until this upcoming year)

And if Democrats really care so strongly about it, why is it 27/188 that are standing against the bill on those grounds? Shouldn't it be overwhelming Democrat support? There's an obvious logic failure here that you're completely blind to. Did Merlin change account names or something?

Vaclav · Dec 17, 2015

Rescorla_sl said:
I only listed 3 of a countless number of factors because that was all I needed to make point. Quaid and others are operating under the mistaken assumption that health metrics based on sociological factors is somehow indicative of the quality of the healthcare system in that country. That is absurd. Just yesterday a study was released that 9 out of 10 cancer cases are due to poor lifestyle choices.

Up to 90% of cancer 'could be wiped out by avoiding triggers' | Daily Mail Online

It is widely known the US has a major problem with obesity. Do you think the healthcare system in the US is in any manner to blame for that problem?

You're using the Daily Mail as a source? Bad news bro, I hope you know that's a tabloid....

The Daily Mail Song - YouTube

Vaclav · Dec 17, 2015

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
and may cover services like IVF.

Got any links to plans that cover IVF? (And genetic testing if you're aware)

I'd love to find one that does if the pricing is reasonable - having a rugrat was something I put off as prohibitively expensive to do thanks to requiring IVF + genetic testing to dodge passing on my condition - would be awesome if there's a plan I'm unaware of. Has always assumed it wasn't a thing, so never went looking.

Cad · Dec 17, 2015

Vaclav_sl said:
Got any links to plans that cover IVF? (And genetic testing if you're aware)

I'd love to find one that does if the pricing is reasonable - having a rugrat was something I put off as prohibitively expensive to do thanks to requiring IVF + genetic testing to dodge passing on my condition - would be awesome if there's a plan I'm unaware of. Has always assumed it wasn't a thing, so never went looking.

If you're willing to get an 8-9 week abortion you can always do chorionic villus sampling and skip IVF. How likely is it to pass on your condition? If its a relatively low chance you go natural and do the tests early and see.

Frenzied Wombat · Dec 17, 2015

Vaclav_sl said:
You're using the Daily Mail as a source? Bad news bro, I hope you know that's a tabloid....

The Daily Mail Song - YouTube

Don't people get tired of that stupid video, or attacking the source but not the content? If you have issue with the stats, then dispute them. Attacking the source without discrediting the content is lame, because ALL sources are biased or incorrect at some point. If you want to deal with Rescorla's stupid rationale, it's better to point out that the US has lower rates of Cancer per 100,000 people than Germany, Norway, Belgium, UK, France, and numerous other nations.. So are Americans more unhealthy than Europeans or not?

Vaclav · Dec 17, 2015

Cad_sl said:
If you're willing to get an 8-9 week abortion you can always do chorionic villus sampling and skip IVF. How likely is it to pass on your condition? If its a relatively low chance you go natural and do the tests early and see.

50/50 chance - and as far as my geneticist said the only testing known - when I lost spoke to them in 2013, at least - works with IVF only. (blood test to verify the condition in adults was a recent discovery - like 2009 or something - previously it was just a clinical diagnosis based on symptoms presented [not that microcornea and digital syndactyly have too many other things they can be])

Frenzied Wombat · Dec 17, 2015

Vaclav_sl said:
Got any links to plans that cover IVF? (And genetic testing if you're aware)

I'd love to find one that does if the pricing is reasonable - having a rugrat was something I put off as prohibitively expensive to do thanks to requiring IVF + genetic testing to dodge passing on my condition - would be awesome if there's a plan I'm unaware of. Has always assumed it wasn't a thing, so never went looking.

Dunno. Ours doesn't cover it but we had an employee start that used to work at some large wall street investment firm and it was covered under his plan there. He specifically delayed moving firms until his wife got pregnant from the treatments so he could avoid paying out of pocket.

Vaclav · Dec 17, 2015

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Don't people get tired of that stupid video, or attacking the source but not the content? If you have issue with the stats, then dispute them. Attacking the source without discrediting the content is lame, because ALL sources are biased or incorrect at some point. If you want to deal with Rescorla's stupid rationale, it's better to point out that the US has lower rates of Cancer per 100,000 people than Germany, Norway, Belgium, UK, France, and numerous other nations.. So are Americans more unhealthy than Europeans or not?

If you actually read the article itself, it never cites anyone for the 90% source, its just a lead-in title with no meat that verifies it - just makes the claim then quotes the generally accepted 30-40% number.

You know, like a tabloid does. Takes a fact like someone saying "rates might even be better than we though" and blows it up to some overstated figure that gets attention. (even the video again says "as much as 4 in 10" - aka 40% or maybe a smidge less)

Bad article is bad - and for reasons of tabloiding up the actual figures with a terrible title - it's a fine article if you ignore the title though. Or if they alter it to "30-40% maybe even a little better than that" - rather than assuming "might be a bit better" = 2-3x off.

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