Health Care Thread

Synj

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I get that, which is what happened when she thought she'd be paying $169/mo. or whatever. That part sucks, and the mistakes are really shitty. Beyond that when you plug the actual numbers in, the rest of the story is bullshit. A silver plan has a $250 brand name deductible, which is how much she claims to pay in just 1 month for drugs. The government will kick her back $3600/yr. in subsidies. She can deduct her health insurance costs on her taxes. She's in a different state, so the rates may be a little different, but the subsidies are based on federal poverty figures, not state figures.

So she's going to save $2,000/yr. in prescription drugs
She'll get a kickback of $3,600/yr. through subsidies
She'll get to deduct her $380/mo. health insurance costs, which saves her maybe another $1000 a year from taxes
And both her and her son will have healthcare

Her net monthly cost for healthcare is like $120.
Like I said, not 100% on this, but the article says that those figures were a goof and the actual tax credit was $110 and that the original subsidy she thought she would be getting ($452/month) was a mistake. Either I missed something or I'm just misunderstanding it. Sorry.
 

bleedat

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Calm down. I didn't insult you, please don't insult me. If you really believe that the government is a haven of efficiency and that the best and brightest are government employees, then that is your prerogative. I just don't agree. Maybe I should rethink my stance considering how well the ACA rollout has been...
you're wasting your time with that moron.
 

Synj

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You never said it, you implied it.
Christ man, at least tell me why you are so confident instead of trying to weasel my words into something I didn't say. The bolded part is mine and notice, it has nothing to do with stupidity.

Bureaucracy: Since being coined, the word "bureaucracy" has developed negative connotations for some.[9] Bureaucracies are criticized for their complexity, their inefficiency, and their inflexibility.[10] The dehumanizing effects of excessive bureaucracy were a major theme in the work of Franz Kafka, and were central to his masterpiece The Trial.[11] The elimination of unnecessary bureaucracy is a key concept in modern managerial theory,[12] and has been a central issue in numerous political campaigns.[13]

Nepotism: Nepotism is favoritism granted in politics or business to relatives.

Laziness: Laziness (also called indolence) is a disinclination to activity or exertiondespite having the ability to do so.
 

Burnem Wizfyre

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I agree with you, I think no matter what Obama does regarding healthcare it will be wrong. But that's because I don't really feel that government has any place in healthcare in the first place.I don't think government bureaucracy is capable of running the simplest of things let alone a system as complex as healthcare but that may be a paradigm shift from those that believe in a more centralized government.
You are stating you believe government is incapable of running the simplest of things, yet some how government runs all sorts of shit that you would flip the fuck out if they were to suddenly vanish. Your comment was fucking stupid, accept it and move on.
 

Zhaun_sl

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I think Burnem makes a valid and interesting point: Why is our government incapable of implementing a system pretty much all our European friends already have?

It isn't like a new and unknown and untested system is being put forward. This is a system with dacades of use by other countries, one they are generally happy with or even proud of.

We're supposed to be the greatest country ever or some such. Yet many people who would scream as much until blue in the face turn and say our country is unable to implement a system dozens of others already have.
 

Zhaun_sl

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As an addendum I will put forward this:

How can the Unitied States both be responsable and capable enough to be trusted with the greatest armed forces and nuclear capability on the planet, yet not be resposable and capable enough to provide health care to its own population?

That seems to fail a test of reason.
 

Burnem Wizfyre

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I think Burnem makes a valid and interesting point: Why is our government incapable of implementing a system pretty much all our European friends already have?

It isn't like a new and unknown and untested system is being put forward. This is a system with dacades of use by other countries, one they are generally happy with or even proud of.

We're supposed to be the greatest country ever or some such. Yet many people who would scream as much until blue in the face turn and say our country is unable to implement a system dozens of others already have.
They are capable, there is a lot of things we are capable of doing that we simply do not for one reason or another, being incapable is not one of those reasons. One of many problems that tends to happen is you have people who think government is incapable of doing anything, with direct evidence to the contrary staring them in the face at every turn. Then when you point out the stupidity in what they said they try to turn to well they can't do it without any inefficiency and that there will be people who will exploit it, so why bother!
 

mkopec

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I think Burnem makes a valid and interesting point: Why is our government incapable of implementing a system pretty much all our European friends already have?
Smaller countries with less people. Also those systems come with their own problems. But I agree. We should just jump all the way in instead of trying to soak our pinky toe like we are doing with this shitty system we have.
 

Hoss

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If other first world countries can manage single payer,
See, here's where your argument falls down. They don't. Of all the countries that use single payer, only one has a health care system that can be considered anywhere near as good as ours, and that country is significantly smaller. Canada and England are horror stories we've been trying to warn you about for 6 years now.
 

mkopec

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Yeah like the dude in my office from Canada. They put his ass on a 6 month waiting list for a back surgery where he was pretty much debilitated. Being married to a American, he ended up getting insurance here somehow and got the back surgery done in less than a week.

Now he lives here with a dual citizenship.
 

Synj

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As an addendum I will put forward this:

How can the Unitied States both be responsable and capable enough to be trusted with the greatest armed forces and nuclear capability on the planet, yet not be resposable and capable enough to provide health care to its own population?

That seems to fail a test of reason.
The better question would be why should the government be responsible for the health care of its population? I'm all for the greater good and yadda yadda but I just don't know how that became the government's role?

You guys can place all the trust in government you want, it's just not my thing.
 

Sebudai

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Yeah like the dude in my office from Canada. They put his ass on a 6 month waiting list for a back surgery where he was pretty much debilitated. Being married to a American, he ended up getting insurance here somehow and got the back surgery done in less than a week.

Now he lives here with a dual citizenship.
Seems legit.
 

Eomer

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See, here's where your argument falls down. They don't. Of all the countries that use single payer, only one has a health care system that can be considered anywhere near as good as ours, and that country is significantly smaller. Canada and England are horror stories we've been trying to warn you about for 6 years now.
How exactly is Canada's health care system a horror story? Sure, we've get our issues here and there, but overall our healthcare outcomes beat the living shit out of the US's in every imaginable way, and we spend about the same amount on our ENTIRE healthcare system as the US spends on Medicare, as far as I understand it. And it's not even Federally administered! Each province does more or less what it wants. States rights!

Sounds like it's working pretty well.

No, there isn't any sort of "one size fits all" health care system, even within single payer systems. Every country has different systems, with different methods of delivery, different proportions of public vs private delivery/provision/funding and so on. I personally think that some aspects of Canada's health care system should be opened up to allow more private delivery in order to reduce costs (basically anything to take power away from nurses unions). But you would be hard pressed to find a single Canadian of average wealth/means that would have even the slightest interest in switching to the abortion that is the American system. Snowbirds (seniors who live in Arizona or Florida in the winter) ensure that they live in the US less than six months a year, so they don't lose their health coverage in Canada.

We all sit here and fucking laugh at how horrific your health care system is for all but the rich.

rrr_img_49899.jpg
 

Eomer

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Sebudai_sl said:
Seems legit.
Timely access to specialist care in non-life threatening situations can sometimes leave something to be desired in our system. But it's not nearly the issue that people make it out to be, and never a problem where someone's life is at risk. Shit like knee/hip replacements and so on.
 

Hoss

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LOL why the hate? I admitted to being a paper salesman for fuck sake, not exactly the coolest thing I've ever done with my life.
Paper salesman is a noble profession. My dad did it for a while. As he would always say, at least you never stooped low enough to sell used cars.

And I only said Andy because I couldn't remember phyliss's name. So you got an upgrade!
 

mkopec

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The above is not what concerns me. What concerns me is the quality of that care and how much of a degradation will it involve.
 

Eomer

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The above is not what concerns me. What concerns me is the quality of that care and how much of a degradation will it involve.
Cite some research that indicates quality of care delivery declines in single payer or socialized health care schemes vs. entirely private ones. I'm genuinely curious to see if any such research exists. I'm inclined to think not.

Oh, another:

rrr_img_49901.jpg