So do it.
Build a deck like you described and show us you beating rush decks with it.
Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Build a deck like you described and show us you beating rush decks with it.
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
- 3,053
- 133
The game is not very friendly for brand new players. My only advice is to make sure you do all of the hidden achievements which can net you about 1,000 easy gold. Then either spend that money on packs, run Arena or a combination of both. Also remember that your first Arena is free (so a free pack of cards even if you simply hit retire) and the first card you disenchant is worth a bonus 95 dust (so if you D/E a common you get 100 dust which is enough for a rare).
Running Arena is probably a good way to go for a newbie. You're going to get curb-stomped but you can start to see what does and does not work. You'll get the same amount of packs, roughly, from doing nothing but Arena with that bonus 1,000 gold as if you buy straight packs but the experience you get from running Arena will be huge.
- 11,220
- 2,366
On warlock stuff, still think Blood Imp is OP. Nerf I'd do is make it only buff adjacent mobs. It would still be very strong and for the most part won't affect all that much, but you won't see retardation when there's 2imps and 5other shit mobs that are now out of every aoe but flamestrike because of the imps, it's just dumb. Even worse in arenas when you can get 3 or 4 imps on the board and the imps themselves are out of any aoe range. Other than that I wouldn't touch anything, think the class is fine overall just blood imps are annoying as fuck. But even without nerfing them warlocks aren't all powerful. Even the old antimage druid deck works ok against warlocks, and with a few modifications slaughter warlocks.
First time I actually retired in arena before 3 losses. Couldn't be arsed to continue from 2-2 with the most useless piece of shit mage ever.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,014
- 511
Dude, you are out of your element here.
I have run all three types of decks a fair bit, a mid range "pally with sword", a board control shaman, and the warlock rush deck.
You are wrong when you say the deck is 100% rush. You are not to strictly go straight to the face 100% of the time with the deck as in a "100% rush" deck. You are supposed to take favorable trades when you can which can often lead to complete board control in this deck. I have won many games with the deck well past turn 10. I'm already running into many people running "counter" decks and I'm still fairing pretty well against them. Control druids with abominations+heals, mid range soj pallies, board control shaman, all your supposed "counter" decks still constantly lose to this deck.
Since I have played a lot of mid range pally and board control shaman I can say those decks against this deck can quickly come down to the draw. Of course those slower decks will wreck if they can ever get tempo, but often times by the time it happens they are in the 4-8 hp range giving the warlock a chance to still finish them off if they even make it to late game.
You do not have to hope to get the player down to 10 hp and have leeroy + po/soulfire, I do not even have leeroy so I substituted sylvanas which is much slower and the deck still will get kills on turn 6 while still taking favorable trades; although I have ended many games with a po or soulfire, sure. The deck has good burst like that, that you play the board control game and when you have a chance for lethal you take it, you don't blindly charge to the face and hope you kill him before he gets his/her aoe or taunt.
I highly disagree, a mid range sword pally played properly should destroy that deck every time.
100% rush object is to do damage to lethal, not to control the board until late game. If you are playing it as a control deck with Sylvanas you are no longer playing the rush.
That doesn't mean you are supposed to just blindly throw cards at his health, it means that you want the outcome to be a fast game with minimal trades that stop the rush.
The above list with leeroy isn't built to survive late game with a good player playing control. If anyone doesn't believe it, load that deck up, and look at the new meta that has shifted to anti lock decks.
If you really think SOJ pallys and Control shaman are at a disadvantage after that then you must have the greatest RNG in the game,
100% rush object is to do damage to lethal, not to control the board until late game. If you are playing it as a control deck with Sylvanas you are no longer playing the rush.
That doesn't mean you are supposed to just blindly throw cards at his health, it means that you want the outcome to be a fast game with minimal trades that stop the rush.
The above list with leeroy isn't built to survive late game with a good player playing control. If anyone doesn't believe it, load that deck up, and look at the new meta that has shifted to anti lock decks.
If you really think SOJ pallys and Control shaman are at a disadvantage after that then you must have the greatest RNG in the game,
- 11,220
- 2,366
Rush decks don't win all the time, but they win or lose fast generally, and as long as your winrate is 50+%, you will hit legendary since as far as I could tell from looking at high ranks people, even at that point losing still loses only one star and winning still wins one star. And you can absolutely lose even with a counter deck because of not drawing the right cards or the warlock having all the right cards and so on. No deck is 100%, but as long as you win more than half, you're fine. Especially when you play short games which lets you work that positive winrate faster to climb up.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,014
- 511
So I have good rng when I play warlock and everyone I face and myself has bad rng when doing the things that you say hard counter it?
Just stop dude, the person who made the deck and made it to legendary said you should be taking favorable trades, I'm not playing a different "board control" variation just because I have sylvanas instead of leeroy. I didn't say I was playing it as a control deck I said just taking favorable trades with the deck allows you to have full board control in many cases. And I never said mid-game pallies and control shamans are at a disadvantage, I'm merely stating the deck is really powerful and it is painfully obvious you don't know how it plays with the things you are saying, those so called "hard-counter" decks probably win ~50% of the time.
Just stop dude, the person who made the deck and made it to legendary said you should be taking favorable trades, I'm not playing a different "board control" variation just because I have sylvanas instead of leeroy. I didn't say I was playing it as a control deck I said just taking favorable trades with the deck allows you to have full board control in many cases. And I never said mid-game pallies and control shamans are at a disadvantage, I'm merely stating the deck is really powerful and it is painfully obvious you don't know how it plays with the things you are saying, those so called "hard-counter" decks probably win ~50% of the time.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,014
- 511
You won't make it to legendary with 50% win rate because you don't earn bonus stars for win streaks rank 5+.
Of course you are look at the cards you removed from that deck, Early game card draw, taking out Fairy dragons for card specifically tailored to only hit minions, subbing in Sylvanas for Leeroy.
Your whole mentality isn't even in the same mind set as the deck was intended for.
Taking favorable trades is a requirement to survive. That's why a deck that is forcing a Lock to constantly trade off until late game will win against that deck.
Thats the whole purpose of a control deck.
Don't be afraid of locks people they are not even in the same league as pre nerf mages/druids/rogues
This is why the meta has just turned against locks, everyone sees this.
- 11,220
- 2,366
I said 50+, not 50. Technically if you can only lose 1star for a loss regardless(I've never seen it lose 2 but maybe it does), as long as your winrate is superior to 50, even if it's 51, you will reach legendary eventually. I'm more talking about like 60% though, where you will progress all the time.
Also one advantage of the warlock decks and why they tend to have better winrate than they would "in theory", is that they're decks that can capitalize on the opponent having a shitty draw. Mulligan everything, still gets shit cards, if you're playing a control druid, then you're ok, the druid won't do all that much regardless since their strat is to use cheap removal to keep the board clear during the first few turns until they start playing the big guys(as soon as turn 3 with innervates but generally not before turn 5). So even if you don't play anything for 3turns, druids will rarely drop you under 25health.
On the other hand, if you draw shit against an extreme warlock aggro deck, there's a solid chance you're under 20 at turn 3 and if they have a blood imp up you probably can't even board clear easily when you start being able to play, so you'll probably be dead by 5 or 6 to soulfire/power overwhelming rush.
That means that almost everytime someone plays a warlock and they get fucked on their starting hand+draw RNG, they will lose to a warlock, while against a slow control druid, they won't necessarily and against a midgame paladin they might be alright too depending on how fast they recover and if their hero power can be used to clear recruits.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,014
- 511
Talking to you is the equivalent to talking to a child with their fingers in their ears going "lalala....i'm not listening."
What are you talking about look at the cards I removed? I only substituted sylvanas for leeroy because I don't have leeroy. You said you have to have him in hand to win games. I'm telling you, you don't know what you are talking about since the deck has done really well even without him. Yes, if I had him instead of sylvanas I would have been able to end some games sooner, but the deck can go to late game and still win, something else you said the deck can not do, but again, I'm telling you, you do not know what you are talking about because I've actually played the deck; something you obviously have not done.
I'm not saying the deck is unstoppable like pre-nerf mages, etc. Like many have already said it just has a pretty good win rate, even against its counters, and its pretty fast so you can rank up quickly with it.
Never said that, I said with that deck with leeroy the object is to use it for lethal.
I never once said you can not do a variation of that deck ,and not win.
Leeroy, and a combo card are essentially a pyroblast on round 3/4/5
Pfft it's way easier to talk in absolutes and call everyone out, rather than providing proof.
Wrong, I said the warlock deck that waspostedhas hard counters, and I still believe that an SOJ pally is its hard counter.
Even Mures conceded there are counters for that deck, and it is no shape or form like a truely over powered meta.
- 11,220
- 2,366
I guess that means when everyone is running a deck that beats every other decks but its mirror, vs current situation where the most run deck is strong but definitely not stronger than everything else, so balanced. That seems to be what the conversation is about at least, that warlock isn't OP.
Mages are back today. Running minion rush+burn to finish, which wasn't nerfed at all.
Also no one in the higher ranks is running that version of the Warlock rush deck. Very few are running anything over 4 mana for Warlock rush. Arcane Golems are now pretty common. 14 1 drops is pretty standard. Zero spells outside of 1 PO and 2 Soulfires. But it isn't a pure face deck at all, you make efficient trades and chip away at them. Versus some decks (Druid late-game) it plays out as rush because they have fuck all on the board so what else are you going to go for.
Also no one in the higher ranks is running that version of the Warlock rush deck. Very few are running anything over 4 mana for Warlock rush. Arcane Golems are now pretty common. 14 1 drops is pretty standard. Zero spells outside of 1 PO and 2 Soulfires. But it isn't a pure face deck at all, you make efficient trades and chip away at them. Versus some decks (Druid late-game) it plays out as rush because they have fuck all on the board so what else are you going to go for.