Hearthstone

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

I imagine any adapt can be silenced regardless of how it was applied.

That card might actually be nuts, we have to assume its one adapt choice that affects all murlocs on the board, but still with Finja seeing some play these days it could start to get pretty crazy with that dude on top. And its a beast so would fit into the Curator decks.

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

I figure we will also see stuff that allows you, or forces you, to adapt enemy minions as well. That would give priest a way to activate SW: Death on stuff. Also you could taunt then Black Knight stuff, but that's a lot less consistent to apply. Or simply make overstatted minions that force you to adapt an enemy as the battecry.

Ravishing · Feb 28, 2017

Famm said:
I imagine any adapt can be silenced regardless of how it was applied.

Taunt/Deathrattles/etc can always be silenced but +Stats could have been a Transform/Jade Golem type deal, but seems to not be the case here.

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

Arena/Small Time/Spirit Claws patch is live.

zzeris · Feb 28, 2017

Expansion looks pretty damn good. Already saving up for it.

Amzin · Feb 28, 2017

zzeris said:
Expansion looks pretty damn good. Already saving up for it.

Really? They revealed 5 cards if you count the leak, and the only ones that might see constructed play after the first week of chaos might be the Murloc Adapt dino (but doubt it), and MAYBE the priest quest but losing a card in your opening hand as priest that is not great.

Like, maybe the expansion could be good. But there's no evidence of that so far

The only confirmed "adapt" card is too weak to probably ever be used, AND it's a class card so it should be one of the stronger ones. The Mage legendary is probably garbage, even for a super control meta (2/2 doesn't even trade with a lot of other 2 drops and some 1 drops, so what added value are you even getting?), Volcano is gimmicky and probably garbage (turn 5 is too slow vs. aggro and the card itself is terrible vs. control and probably tempo), the priest quest reward is fantastic but the quest itself is only ever going to happen vs. other control decks and you don't have the option of NOT drawing the quest as an opening card vs. aggro. The Murloc Adapt dino could potentially be usable but it doesn't scream OP so again, probably won't see much constructed play.

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

All three of the new mechanics have promise. Elemental interactions should make some good tribal decks, quests are at least new and fresh, adapt is already better on paper than worthless inspire and joust.

Mahes · Feb 28, 2017

Will try Arena now. Will be interesting to see how the changes effect game play. I also approve of the ranking lock. That has been needed for a long time.

Pirate got a little slower...

Ravishing · Feb 28, 2017

Amzin said:
Really? They revealed 5 cards if you count the leak, and the only ones that might see constructed play after the first week of chaos might be the Murloc Adapt dino (but doubt it), and MAYBE the priest quest but losing a card in your opening hand as priest that is not great.

Like, maybe the expansion could be good. But there's no evidence of that so far The only confirmed "adapt" card is too weak to probably ever be used, AND it's a class card so it should be one of the stronger ones. The Mage legendary is probably garbage, even for a super control meta (2/2 doesn't even trade with a lot of other 2 drops and some 1 drops, so what added value are you even getting?), Volcano is gimmicky and probably garbage (turn 5 is too slow vs. aggro and the card itself is terrible vs. control and probably tempo), the priest quest reward is fantastic but the quest itself is only ever going to happen vs. other control decks and you don't have the option of NOT drawing the quest as an opening card vs. aggro. The Murloc Adapt dino could potentially be usable but it doesn't scream OP so again, probably won't see much constructed play.

So much analysis over 5 cards!

Your 1st 5 words is all you had to say. The rest means nothing. We don't know what the meta will do, what will be good, etc. The fact you think the dino might be good is funny, I think it's trash. The fact you have doubts about the priest card is funny, I think it's too strong. Clearly neither of us can accurately judge anything right now.

Amzin · Feb 28, 2017

How would you ever play 7 death rattles against a non-control deck as a priest? It's not going to happen. Priest doesn't even usually RUN 7 death rattles, even in N'Zoth, so either you inflate your deck more with whatever rattles or you wait until after you play N'Zoth on turn 10 to hit that 7 number and finish your quest and THEN you get to play your sweet 5 mana 8/8 super reno. It's a super powerful swing in control vs. control for sure but it's garbage in every aggro matchup which, let's face it, is going to be over 50% of the matchups unless they change how ladder works or just make insane control-only cards somehow (which people have bet on before and been wrong every time).

My entire point of the response was how could someone say that it looked damned good already? We have seen nothing so far, as you say. But historical trends give some weight to these cards being meh at best. The only reason the murloc dino MIGHT be playable is because you can shit out murlocs and giving them bloodlust or windfury on turn 4 is OK, although all the other effects would be pointless.

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

Its Rav, he always gets hyped over the slowest most win-more cards in every set that never see competitive viability.

I will say that card could make the most annoying Reno/N'Zoth priest ever for wild, hard to see it being very usable in standard pending any new deathrattles.

The reason the dino might get nutty is mostly Finja. If we hadn't started to see that card actually showing up as a threat lately it would seem pretty meh though.

Ravishing · Feb 28, 2017

Famm said:
Its Rav, he always gets hyped over the slowest most win-more cards in every set that never see competitive viability.

I will say that card could make the most annoying Reno/N'Zoth priest ever for wild, hard to see it being very usable in standard pending any new deathrattles.

The reason the dino might get nutty is mostly Finja. If we hadn't started to see that card actually showing up as a threat lately it would seem pretty meh though.

Elise, Reno, C'Thun, Yogg, N'Zoth
They are all "super slow" and all have seen play.

We don't know what new deathrattles will come in the new set yet. There are plenty of early deathrattles already which you could load up on, the card is also suitable in a "Reno" Priest deck. It's a card you might rarely get to play on 5 mana but even if not, it's a more powerful reno for later. Priest has always been a late game control class, only in this current meta is it so fast that even Priest has a hard time.

I'm more concerned with Jade Druid than aggro. If the game slows even a tad then Jade Druid will be everywhere.

Famm · Feb 28, 2017

I'm talking more about gimmicky hard to set up shit like Aviana which is more what I find this card comparable to. None of those cards are remotely as difficult to set up, except maybe Elise and that only worked in hardcore control decks, mostly warrior and its still not as clunky as Awaken. The card simply doesn't have any support to build around it in standard right now. They could load up a ton of nice deathrattles on curve for the set, but after GvG I think they are gun shy on doing so.

Jade definitely feels like a problem going forward. Terrible mechanic IMO.

Ravishing · Feb 28, 2017

Aviana is a gimmick I had hopes for early on, but it's funny that she's actually used now.
Aviana+Kun is a nice combo, I don't see it going away either.

I think you underestimate these quests, it's not difficult to setup at all, it's literally a 1 mana cost spell that you are guaranteed to start with if you choose, can easily cast it later after you have a deathrattle in hand, don't need to keep it either if you're worried about aggro.

I would say it is clunky and would be hard if not for the fact there are 6 1-drop deathrattles you can choose from, none of which are rotating out.
Then you have Loot Hoarder, Thalnos, Harvest Golem, Shade, Infested Tauren
Add Cairne/N'Zoth for late game and whatever else comes in the expansion.

Doesn't seem hard to complete imo.

Amzin · Feb 28, 2017

The 8/8 Set your health to 40 isn't a win condition. It's not even really a come back condition against control if you're in a bad spot, if you're even but hurt it's a nice swing for you but nothing earth shaking. You can't throw in a bunch of 1-mana shitty death rattles for the promise of having a slightly better Reno later on in the game. It's not that it's hard to complete, it's just that if your goal is to complete it, you're just going to lose most of the time anyway. If your goal is to survive against aggro (which again, every single expansion so far except maybe LoE has made aggro stronger sooooooo just a safe bet) then completing the quest will be nonexistent and the card is just wasted. I specified it could be good against control matchups, which it could be, but it doesn't help at all against the aggro-dominant meta. So you're putting in a card that's dead against half the matchups you'll face (more than that after the first couple weeks, probably) and only, again, a neo-Reno against control decks.

It's honestly not even that NEAT of a card, it's just Reno 2.0 for priests only, unless they add in a bunch of priest shit that does stuff based on your health total. Oh and I guess you could play Molten Giants for 0 mana at 15 health so there's that.

Who knows, maybe they got their heads out of their asses 8 months ago (before all the more recent feedback and clusterfuck of MSG) but it seems pretty fucking unlikely.

Mr Creed · Feb 28, 2017

Amzin said:
The retroactively adding Elemental type to cards really shows the advantages and also the lack of foresight required for the digital CCG format. Like, Magic had creature types of every single creature card from the get-go in the early 90s. Why didn't HS implement that for at least basic things even if they had no cards to take advantage of it yet? Retroactively adding tribal power to cards because of synergy but making it selective is pretty goddamn dumb.

Because they are ignorant as fuck. They'll get around to many things WotC learned in the last 20 years, at a rate of one good idea per year. I mean, they're just now taking the same step MTG took with revised edition and remove cards from the base set. Took MTG like 6-9 months to figure that out in 1993/94. How long did it take the Hearthstone team to come to that conclusion?

Derpa · Feb 28, 2017

Mahes said:
Will try Arena now. Will be interesting to see how the changes effect game play. I also approve of the ranking lock. That has been needed for a long time.

Pirate got a little slower...

I should play my arena I started during or before league of explorers lol.

Ravishing · Feb 28, 2017

Amzin said:
The 8/8 Set your health to 40 isn't a win condition. It's not even really a come back condition against control if you're in a bad spot, if you're even but hurt it's a nice swing for you but nothing earth shaking. You can't throw in a bunch of 1-mana shitty death rattles for the promise of having a slightly better Reno later on in the game. It's not that it's hard to complete, it's just that if your goal is to complete it, you're just going to lose most of the time anyway. If your goal is to survive against aggro (which again, every single expansion so far except maybe LoE has made aggro stronger sooooooo just a safe bet) then completing the quest will be nonexistent and the card is just wasted. I specified it could be good against control matchups, which it could be, but it doesn't help at all against the aggro-dominant meta. So you're putting in a card that's dead against half the matchups you'll face (more than that after the first couple weeks, probably) and only, again, a neo-Reno against control decks.

It's honestly not even that NEAT of a card, it's just Reno 2.0 for priests only, unless they add in a bunch of priest shit that does stuff based on your health total. Oh and I guess you could play Molten Giants for 0 mana at 15 health so there's that.

Who knows, maybe they got their heads out of their asses 8 months ago (before all the more recent feedback and clusterfuck of MSG) but it seems pretty fucking unlikely.

It's not meant to be a sole win condition, it's part of the priest value game. It's insane value and it also is a safety against combo decks, something priest have yearned for. 5 mana 8/8 has a lot of implications in priest. You can bounce it back with brew, or combo with faceless or do some divine spirit stuff. Lots of options due to how cheap the minion is, plus you add nzoth for a final board flood.

slippery · Feb 28, 2017

I started skimming so I don't know if some of these things got pointed out in response to things

The new Quest cards are in your starting mulligan, you have the option to mulligan it away. You aren't forced to keep it in your hand

The priest Quest uses the word Summon not Play, which means if you revive a deathrattle minion that counts. That gives a lot more options in how to get the quest done.

Arbitrary · Feb 28, 2017

It's cool seeing a new card type and the effect looks powerful but being down one card in the early game is rough for any deck. The mana cost is also not insignificant. It could really matter in the first couple turns of the game that you blew one mana on a card that did absolutely nothing.

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