Hearthstone

Famm_sl said:

Its win more.

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This is a term used around here quite a lot, and I'm not sure people really understand it.

Ramp/taunt druid is already not that good. This one card isn't going to change it enough. If you have the luxury to cast this at turn nine then you are already in control. If you aren't in control this card isn't enough to change the game when its so easy to remove and susceptible to silence. Sometimes you'll drop that big bomb next to it but often you'll just waste nine mana.

I'd be more interested in seeing some of the smaller end of the curve cards help druid gain more of an early tempo.

But why push for dropping a lot of minions in one or two turns really? Unless they have charge, who cares?

One brawl, an owl + any hard removal, even just a silence plus damage from on-board minions, a fucking betrayal or lightbomb or whatever the hell else. There's a million ways to break your wall of death. Deathwing the new meta!

Hey, someone might come up with something creative. We shall see. If I had to bet though, I'd say that it is a dead card that people will try to make work but eventually not use. Trog not Boom.

Win more is actually a perfect way to describe Avian.

It does seem like there are people around here who don't understand what win more means.

Fawe_sl said:

Yep, don't want to empty your hand, but there are a lot of cards that help you the turn they are played without having Charge. It will take a bit of experimenting and also playing smart to bait out removal.


Emperor will make minions cost 0:
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Her discount is calculated 1st then Emperor's, so if you can proc Emperor 1x before playing Aviana, any minion that was in your hand will be 0 cost when you play her

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That would be much stronger but is even more combo-y and unreliable.

With these new mechanics I bet something breaks. They probly should have tested it, but who am I kidding we are always beta testing this game.

Gavinmad_sl said:

Win more is actually a perfect way to describe Avian.

It does seem like there are people around here who don't understand what win more means.

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Getting cards out of your hand is not a 'win more' situation. Having cards in your hand most definitely doesn't mean you're winning in Hearthstone. So you tell me, what about playing multiple minions in a turn is 'win more'.

Caal_sl said:

Getting cards out of your hand is not a 'win more' situation. Having cards in your hand most definitely doesn't mean you're winning in Hearthstone. So you tell me, what about playing multiple minions in a turn is 'win more'.

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That is not a very useful argument. Having cards in your hand most definitely doesn't mean you're losing in Hearthstone. As it stands, Avi by herself requires at least 1 other slow card in your hand to follow up with. Unless it's a card that has immediate board/game effect, if you're behind, you will most likely stay behind (and lose your sexy neat legendary in the process, or just the game). With a perfect setup and combo of cards in your hand, she's great, but if you have all of that you're in a winning position even if your opponent doesn't know it, YOU know it.

She doesn't enabled you to play anything you couldn't have played without her UNLESS you setup with Emperor, or have innervates sitting in your hand late game, except for a 5/5 body that does nothing else until your next turn. If you're losing, that's not enough itself to matter in most situations. If the other minion is strong enough to go from losing to winning by playing it, you could have played it ANYWAY, without any gimmicks or combos or sculpting a deck entirely around 1 card and weakening your first 8 turns in the process. Playing multiple minions in a turn means nothing unless you're already winning and just solidifying your advantage (although making it more vulnerable to big turn arounds like Brawl all well).

Edit: Burgle and Thoughtsteal don't reduce cost at all so it'd run into the same problems as it will in a normal druid deck, except without the advantage of deck design and innervates.

Caal_sl said:

Getting cards out of your hand is not a 'win more' situation. Having cards in your hand most definitely doesn't mean you're winning in Hearthstone. So you tell me, what about playing multiple minions in a turn is 'win more'.

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By the time you are in a situation to be able to dump your hand (or a part of your hand) onto the board, another nine drop would also likely be just as useful without you having to tailor your deck to using this one. Your win condition is one that is already a win most of the time without building a deck around a card that isn't central to its efficacy.

The win condition for late decks is *getting to turn nine or ten*. This card might be fun once you get there but you don't need it to get there. So it doesn't really matter.

The entire idea behind the card is being able to get multiple minions out of your hand, which is a catch up mechanic. The card is basically a reverse style Kel'Thuzad. Instead of requiring an already established board position to get use out of KT, all you need is Aviana + whatever else in your hand. I'm sure Druid or Control Warrior players can picture a situation where they have 10 mana and 5+ cards in their hand.

I have golden warrior, about 3/4ths of which is from low ranked control warrior play, I've experimented with just about everything in control warrior and I can't picture ever running Aviana because control warrior has a super low threat density and you want to lower that threat density even further to include a gimmicky card that is beyond worthless by itself. If I have Nefarian in hand, I'm damn sure happy to just play him and not give a shit if I'm putting out another 5/5 body as well, especially not if the cost of including that 5/5 body was cutting Ysera from the deck.

Ramp druid decks typically curve out heavily at 5-7, with the occasional KT or Cenarius rounding out the top end. The point of ramp druid is not to accelerate into a bunch of lategame bombs, the point is to jump ahead in the mana curve and leave your opponent playing catch up as he's trying to contest your 5 drops with 3 and 4 drops. Now if I ever opened Aviana, I would absolutely test her out in ramp in place of Cenarius, but I doubt she'd push the deck out of the middle of the pack mediocrity it's been sitting in.

Caal_sl said:

The entire idea behind the card is being able to get multiple minions out of your hand, which is a catch up mechanic. The card is basically a reverse style Kel'Thuzad. Instead of requiring an already established board position to get use out of KT, all you need is Aviana + whatever else in your hand. I'm sure Druid or Control Warrior players can picture a situation where they have 10 mana and 5+ cards in their hand.

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You are only going to get for certain ONE card out, and that's assuming ten mana. You realize that this isn't a permanent effect like emp, right? As soon as she's dead/sheeped/hexed/silenced you have no benefit anymore.

Fawe_sl said:

I see her as an insurance policy for getting Kel'Thuzad out with a Taunter on 1 turn, instead of hoping the Taunter survives a turn.

And who cares about Warrior when this is a Druid card? lol.

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Yeah Warrior wasn't worth mentioning, mb.

Ramp is not very good. Aviana is unlikely to change that.

Itzena_sl said:

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That is fucking amazing. His opponent just rapes him with unstable portal over and over and over, and then Kripp pulls the double rng hail mary and wins the game. I'm pretty sure that based on the board state, that particular combo was the only possible way to win the game.

Unreal.