Heroes of the Storm

Amzin_sl said:

Not only that but as the streamers who got the invites aren't moba players to begin with, they aren't likely to stay with HotS as their main attraction. Not to mention you can only watch someone that has no idea how to play for so long before it's just pointless. You don't learn anything about the game from watching someone that isn't bothering to learn anything about the game themselves. I said earlier on that it looks like it's more fun to play than it is to watch and I still think that's true, although I haven't gotten to try it yet. The dynamics of the team fights / skirmishes from an observers point of view are just not there right now.

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I always find it odd the most popular people on twitch are generally those who are objectively bad at video games. TB is bad, JP is bad even Day seems bad. It isn't like SC2 professionals would quit playing SC2 since it's their money supply to come over and play some HOTS. So you are left with some Diablo streamers, a game that requires literally zero skill, trying to play a fast paced ARTS and consistently falling on their face. The only person I really watched was LastShadow because I knew he was at least good at Starcraft2 so he has to be somewhat competent making decisions quickly and playing fast. But even then he didn't seem to know much about positioning and when to pick a team fight like a seasoned DOTA2 player.

Because streaming is entertainment, and most of the pros have the personality of a goldfish..

Column_sl said:

Because streaming is entertainment, and most of the pros have the personality of a goldfish..

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I guess I come at streaming with a different viewpoint. I only watch streams of competitive games to learn what they're doing better than me. I rarely watch streams as a form of pure entertainment. I can't wrap my head around watching someone play a single player game as being fun. Must be a ton of younger brothers who weren't allowed to be P2 as a kid

Tenks_sl said:

I always find it odd the most popular people on twitch are generally those who are objectively bad at video games. TB is bad, JP is bad even Day seems bad. It isn't like SC2 professionals would quit playing SC2 since it's their money supply to come over and play some HOTS. So you are left with some Diablo streamers, a game that requires literally zero skill, trying to play a fast paced ARTS and consistently falling on their face. The only person I really watched was LastShadow because I knew he was at least good at Starcraft2 so he has to be somewhat competent making decisions quickly and playing fast. But even then he didn't seem to know much about positioning and when to pick a team fight like a seasoned DOTA2 player.

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The vast majority of popular dota2/LoL streams are pros or high-level players. There are some crappy gamers mixed in but they're significantly less popular than the actual skilled players.

You are coming at it all wrong, and is another reason a lot of pros fail at streaming.

Streaming isn't just passive entertainment, it is a place for people to hang out and talk in a chat room. It's a community that forms around these streamers,and the interaction the streamer has with his audience which makes it so popular.

You can be the best dota 2 player ever but if you play your obnoxious music all day, and ignore the people that support you completely you will have a very hard time retaining anyone's attention for more then 10 min.

Amzin_sl said:

The vast majority of popular dota2/LoL streams are pros or high-level players. There are some crappy gamers mixed in but they're significantly less popular than the actual skilled players.

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He's talking about twitch as a whole tho

Column_sl said:

You can be the best dota 2 player ever but if you play your obnoxious music all day, and ignore the people that support you completely you will have a very hard time retaining anyone's attention for more then 10 min.

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This is what surprises me about Kripparian's stream and its popularity. It has an utterly toxic channel and he basically ignores his subscribers and the chat completely.

He talks all day long on that stream with his gaming group.... If he had an awful personality no one would watch him.

He's not sitting there silent playing shitty music all day, with a crappy looking stream.

Also before he was really popular he did talk to the chat all the time, when you reach 10k a night it is impossible to even deal with that anymore.

Column_sl said:

He's not sitting there silent playing shitty music all day, with a crappy looking stream.

Also before he was really popular he did talk to the chat all the time, when you reach 10k a night it is impossible to even deal with that anymore.

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Yeah, fair enough. I never watched his stream before it was popular. Just know his chat is fucking worthless.

Kripp is definitely one of the odd balls tho. For some reason his stream is just really enjoyable to listen too, almost like background noise.

I know A lot of people keep his stream on while they are playing games, and to sleep too.

Something about that monotone voice that is very peaceful. That being said most people couldn't copy Kripp with the same success. He's a one of a kind streamer.

Column_sl said:

He's talking about twitch as a whole tho

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But people who watch CS:GO aren't going to watch HotS. People who watch Diablo 3 aren't going to be interested in watching HotS. HotS is, mostly, a moba, and will be watched by moba audiances and needs to appeal to them if it's going to be popular on Twitch. Obviously, being Blizzard, it will draw in plenty of new people as well, but if they could get some big League/dota streamers playing HotS it would do wonders for their viewer numbers. The other problem is that people can't just go play HotS after they see it on stream. Most League watchers also play League, same with dota.

Personality is important, but you have people like Wildturtle and Bjergson who BARELY talk to their viewers and they regularly have 10k+ viewers. They play the game, make comments occasionally, and yea have some kind of UI and music going on. Contrast that with Trump, who constantly talks about what he's doing and interacts with the viewers, but has basically no UI and does not play any music. He has smaller viewer numbers than a lot of League streamers but still breaks 10k often enough. Different audiences.

For a new game, that isn't accessible to the general public for who knows how long, that is fairly complicated and not intuitive, you need someone who can explain what they're doing and why. None of the random Diablo/Hearthstone streamers really were doing that. Add on a tiny champion pool and it gets old for the player and viewer very fast.

But people who watch CS:GO aren't going to watch HotS

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Its the streamer man... Summit is one of the better american CSGO players ,and he can play a fucking MMO and still retain his same audience.

You are talking about a very small viewer base that just tunes in to learn a game that they are playing. In the big scope it's entertainment.
That's why Kripp can play a MOBA ( which he admits he never plays) and still get over 10k.

This all explains why the big streamers are popular despite being mediocre at gaming. Trust me, it's way worse when you play with these people.
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors going on, and you would be surprised how many people help them to even look half way competent.

Or you could have tits...

Sulrn_sl said:

Twitch streams are like used sharps - I only handle them to a disposable container because otherwise AIDS. . .

I never disputed the difference in available productions quality, only the generic opinion that the content is superior - which is purely subjective.

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Its not purely subjective when 20,000-150,000 people are tuning into these pro games, if the HoTS content was superior it would garner more viewers no? Right now there is nothing to watch involving HoTS other than personalities playing it like TB/Kripp/Day9 whoever.

It sure seems like you desperately need to convince yourself that this game that isn't even out of Beta yet can't compete with your beloved older MOBAs.

Dandain_sl said:

Its not purely subjective when 20,000-150,000 people are tuning into these pro games, if the HoTS content was superior it would garner more viewers no? Right now there is nothing to watch involving HoTS other than personalities playing it like TB/Kripp/Day9 whoever.

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My point is that not every person can make every game attention grabbing or popular. MOBA gameplay is a lot different from most of the games these guys play (and obviously way different than all the single-player games). I am not saying HotS content is more or less entertaining than League or Dota, but I am saying the wrong people are streaming it. Yes, they have their own viewers they're bringing with them, but do those viewers want to watch an extremely team-based, heavily skill reliant game where their 'celebrity' has no idea what's going on, how to play, is very limited in scope, and where the viewers have no chance to participate themselves?

Not everyone watches streams to improve themselves, no. But very very few people watch streams of a game they've never played or never will play, and most of those are people who watch esports because of word of mouth or something like that, League probably has more non-League players watching streams than all the other games combined have of similar demographics, and it's STILL not a very big chunk.

khalid_sl said:

It sure seems like you desperately need to convince yourself that this game that isn't even out of Beta yet can't compete with your beloved older MOBAs.

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Keep telling yourself, someone posted why has this game fall off the face of the earth as far as stream viewing goes, that's the conversation we've been having if you've read it. I hope this game is successful, its success doesn't impact league or dota in any meaningful way.

Added the newer people

for me, watching a great player with little personality is boring. On the other hand, people like Jesse Cox are incredibly entertaining to watch and listen to. I don't care if he's good, he's enjoying to watch because when he gets his crew running with him? it's like they're just hanging out and having fun. A while ago they did a video of Guns of Icarus Online. It was jesse, cry, markiplier and dodger against TB, angryjoe and 2 other people I can't remember. They both recorded it and Jesse's team was so much more enjoyable to watch because they were just goofing around having fun. Even though they lost, it was more fun.

THat because said, there's something to be said about watching a game to learn how to be better. But you're not doing that for entertainment so who cares about the personality of the person streaming/recording

Utnayan_sl said:

LoL and DOTA 2 are good games in their own right, but there is way too much micromanagement for me.

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I very much agree with this. I love the "concept" of LoL and Dota, but the last hitting, denial, extremely complicated build and items, make them both very inaccessible to new players.

I don't have access yet but two good friends of mine are and they won't shut up about how fun this game is. These same people played the tutorial of LoL and couldn't get into it because of the above.