Cad
scientia potentia est
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Because the opportunities are there but they're being denied by choices made by you or on your behalf. There is nothing "society" can do about this except separate you from your parents/culture.
I do not believe in equality
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Cad
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I mean the kid can't help it so in that sense, he didn't have that opportunity. But there's nothing "we" can do about it. What do you suggest?
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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I'm not suggesting anything. Several people here implied or flat out said everyone has the same opportunity. I said "I don't agree" and asked questions to see why they felt that way. Then I gave some off the cuff examples of things that exist in this country that prove it isn't equal. Then I got called a left wing fanatic just for disagreeing that every single person has equal opportunity, accused of being a troll, even had my sex life called into question in some bizarre "gotcha" attempt. People thought I was arguing for a certain position when all I was doing was arguing against one particular statement simply because it just isn't true.
I care about inequality but not because I want to help people and I want everyone to be happy and healthy and well fed. I care about it because I feel it's tied to the insane volatility of the economic state of this country and that effects me personally. I have empathy for people who have been dealt a shit hand in life but that's as far as it goes. I'm not volunteering at soup kitchens or with at risk youth. I care enough to say "that sucks" and that's about it. I'm pretty selfish. But at least I'm honest about it.
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The US is a funny place though if you think about it. Its comprised from 100s of nationalities, religions, races, truly unique place in the world. And yet after 100s of years they are still really segregated. The only people that integrated with each other is the whites, like Irish, Saxons, Poles, Germans... But all other races and religions are still pretty much segregated keeping to themselves. Either its still deep rooted bigotry and hate, thats masked and hidden by todays PC culture, but there is really no other way to explain it. And in order for all this shit to get better, there really needs to be a push for more integration.
Cad
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Well I think you're using the terms differently so you're talking past each other (standard for rerolled). When I say equality of opportunity, I am assuming that you are doing what is possible to maximize the opportunities given to you by society; so for example your parents aren't hamstringing you by teaching you a different language, teaching you that school is for suckers, or calling you an Uncle Tom for learning the white man's way. To my mind, that child had opportunities; but he, through his parents, decided not to use them.
You're rolling up parents/culture/location/everything into "opportunities" and saying if a kid's parents sabotage him then he didn't have opportunities. And yea, I think everyone would agree with that, defined that way. But it's also an intractable problem until you start removing kids from parents. So I think most people are talking about the first definition.
But whatever, if thats what you're trying to say, then yes, some people are probably just fucked. So what? What are you prepared to do? What do you suggest we do? If it's just a suggestion that we check our privilege, I think you know how thats going to go over.
Khane
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That's what I don't get. That's the second time you've said "check your privelege". You gotta stop going to those threads here man, how many people have you run into out in the real world who actually think and speak that way? Someone who would actually say "check your privelege"? I already told you, I don't really care enough to do anything about it other than say "Inequality exists, it effects things in this country, would be nice if someone else wanted to figure it out and had a good plan. But I'm gonna go play golf, throw away this chicken sandwich because I don't like how much mayo is on it, and tell the cashier no when she asks if I'd like to donate to the current flavor of the month charity".
Khane
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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Because what you're asking us to do is a differently phrased way of saying check your privilege. If you don't want me to say that, stop asking us to do it.
Cad
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radditsu
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Look into the re segregation of classes after peak integration in 1988. You can see most of the gains since the 60s start to erode and you get the non homogeneous classroom/school systems you see today. How can one mesh with society if as a child you never have a chance to mesh with each other in society? You see some of the Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in New York do this intentionally do keep their ideological purity. Also the Mormons have increasingly done this over the last few decades. There are AWFUL fights in school board meetings because they want to bus people from "black" neighborhoods to "white" schools all over the country. Where people actually use "coded" language... like calling fucking fifth graders thugs, to prevent this from continuing.
He can help it though is my point. It is unlikely that he will and that's the difference between what Khane is saying and what I am saying.
Everyone has the opportunities, whether they make the choices necessary to take advantage of what is in front of them or not is on them just as much as society. One person making it through the specific adversity that you claim is insurmountable or the reason why you haven't succeeded invalidates your complaint.
This isn't the "squandering chances" thread, this is the "equality" thread.
Cad
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Check your privilege means be aware of your inequality and show some empathy for those less fortunate. It's not a "call to action" just recognize that you are privileged and think about it.
Which is literally what you're suggesting.
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You know its funny, bro. someone here, i forgot who, asked me "So how is this SJW thing effecting you in day to day life?" that made me pause a bit and think and look back and I cannot say it really has.
But it does effect me when I watch the TV and surf the internet on a daily basis, and I hate what it stands for, pushing feminism down our throats and trying to enact Orwellian thought police and shitting on our right to free speech. Because they want to sensor it. Its one of the reasons I dont go to Something awful anymore. I used to surf there and argue about games and shit, but ever since they blatantly censored any and all discussions about SJW in the beginning days of gamer-gate, I left never to come back. Not that i gave a shit about gamer-gate, but I did give a shit about the censorship act itself.
So yeah in effect it is affecting me in some miniscule way every day, not in my real day to day interactions with people, but rweal life interactions with anonymity on the internet. And to me its kind of frightening, this whole movement, because its not good.
Khane
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So you think it's bad advice to understand where people from other walks of life are coming from? People saying shit like "You should realize you're fortunate" and "There is always someone who has it worse" are in ancient proverbs Cad. What are you even talking about? That shit is rotting your brain. I can't imagine how much you hate The Statue of Liberty.
Khane
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You know what else is ridiculous? The Anti crowd shoving the "Fight the feminazis" bullshit down my throat and pretending anything even a little liberal in belief or speech is a goddamn call to arms to take away all your freedom.