I do not believe in equality

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khalid

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I'm not seeing where Cad said he got through school on a full ride. Certainly that post you quoted doesn't say that.
 
Cad

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khalid_sl said:
I'm not seeing where Cad said he got through school on a full ride. Certainly that post you quoted doesn't say that.
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No he's quoting me saying my tuition was $40k/yr. Which it was! I just didn't pay it. Was trying to compliment Noodle on doing great, which Khane takes out of context to make me a liar.

Which of course doesn't go to his ultimate point, he's just salty now so he's personally attacking me.
 
Khane

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Cad_sl said:
No he's quoting me saying my tuition was $40k/yr. Which it was! I just didn't pay it. Was trying to compliment Noodle on doing great, which Khane takes out of context to make me a liar.

Which of course doesn't go to his ultimate point, he's just salty now so he's personally attacking me.
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Hahaha, what? You literally said "paid 40k/yr" in that post. I can't believe you won't actually stop. This is like watching a train wreck. Are you even a lawyer?
 
Cad

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Khane_sl said:
Hahaha, what? You literally said "paid 40k/yr" in that post. I can't believe you won't actually stop. This is like watching a train wreck. Are you even a lawyer?
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Extra salty!
 
Khane

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Cad come on dude. Don't do this to yourself man. I'm gonna start to feel bad.
 
Abefroman

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Bunch of fucking white people posting at work while being paid arguing about black people. White people problems.
 
chaos

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khalid_sl said:
Maybe its a cultural thing. No family member or friend has ever came up to me and said "Man, you sure were lucky to have gotten your PhD!" and if they did I would be fucking irritated. No bro, it didn't just magically happen to me, I had to work for a really long time on it. It diminishes the work that you did.
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I don't understand why people keep going from "hey we're lucky" to "your own work and effort played no part in your achievements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It doesn't diminish the work you did to acknowledge that some degree of chance may have played in at certain stages. So what? Without the work to back it up all those chances are just wasted opportunities. Don't be so sensitive.
 
Titan_Atlas

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Khane_sl said:
What would your wife do without you Titan? It's actually a little shocking you hold the beliefs you do if that's the case.
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She would function same as before. I married her a year and a half ago she was 30 . She takes meds and does a good job at life. Not perfect, not successful, but functionally lower middle class. My original point has not changed, I do not believe in equality. I believe in equal opportunity and I also believe we as a country have accomplished that. The fight going on currently is people who do not understand that humanity is a hierarchy and our continued existence depends on that. Nobody needs a leg up, they need to set a goal and accomplish it, move to the next goal. Some people have farther to climb, but the ones who deserve it will do exactly that. Stop feeling sorry for people. By and large they are in a place of their own making or their parents.
 
khalid

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chaos_sl said:
I don't understand why people keep going from "hey we're lucky" to "your own work and effort played no part in your achievements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It doesn't diminish the work you did to acknowledge that some degree of chance may have played in at certain stages. So what? Without the work to back it up all those chances are just wasted opportunities. Don't be so sensitive.
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It is because not remotely everything went my way. I had plenty of hardships in life that I worked past. So yeah, when you come up and say "You are so lucky!" that is exactly what you did. It is also as vacuous as some religious person saying I was blessed by God. Get the fuck out with that shit.

I don't think that is being sensitive, it is simply acknowledging what is being said. I don't immediately go off on this person. It just fucking irritates me because it isn't true. I was "lucky" in some ways and "unlucky" in others.
 
Khane

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Titan_atlas_sl said:
She would function same as before. I married her a year and a half ago she was 30 . She takes meds and does a good job at life. Not perfect, not successful, but functionally lower middle class. My original point has not changed, I do not believe in equality. I believe in equal opportunity and I also believe we as a country have accomplished that. The fight going on currently is people who do not understand that humanity is a hierarchy and our continued existence depends on that. Nobody needs a leg up, they need to set a goal and accomplish it, move to the next goal. Some people have farther to climb, but the ones who deserve it will do exactly that. Stop feeling sorry for people. By and large they are in a place of their own making or their parents.
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Well, I don't believe in equality either. Anyone who does can't be taken seriously.

That hierarchy comment completely betrays your position though Titan. Do you realize that? If there was actually a hierarchy like the caste system in India in this country it would literally be impossible to overcome your situation.
 
Lithose

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chaos_sl said:
No one would ever do that because that's pretty fucking personal. A person who knew you might. Honestly would you disagree? We're all lucky. We're well off, educated Americans, mostly white (sorry Khane and Brahma), we're pretty god damn lucky. That doesn't mean we didn't work hard or overcome adversity, it doesn't put an asterisk next to every accomplishment we have.

The internet is so extreme and weird. I swear it didn't used to be this bad.
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Of course it does. Why acknowledge it if it doesn't do that? You guys are forming a cognitive dissonance over this. If you've been given an advantage, then your accomplishments are easier than someone else. This is like stating that the winner of a race got a head start but it doesn't cheapen his victory. How? In what other situation would you ever think that? (And I'm pointing this out only because its important we think this through...so many people end up believing things without rationally examining them because that belief has a connotation of morality to it, as this one does.)

The problem Cad is pointing out is attempting to tell someone ELSE what their advantages are especially based onaveragemetrics. We spent hundreds of years struggling to break free of classification based systems and get people to attempt to recognize people on their individual merits, actual actions they've taken; rather than "he's one of the poor ones--he's destined for X, Y, Z"..."He's white, he has R Q B advantage".

Telling someone they need to acknowledge how lucky they are is removing nuance. It's not a good thing. It's attempting to put that astrick there to turn a very very complex set of issues into an ideological framework. (And it's not odd to do that, people do this all the time with very complex issues). But the point is, if we say "X group succeeds because they have a lot of advantages" is that really any better analytically than saying "black people commit more crime and thus fail". It's just raw grouping, and it sucks away nuance. I'm guilty of this, for sure--I don't think human beings could exist without doing this, the world is just too complex. But as people are increasingly being grouped like this openly, even in national political debates? Yeah, people are going to start calling out how its really inaccurate on an individual level.
 
fanaskin

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chaos_sl said:
I don't understand why people keep going from "hey we're lucky" to "your own work and effort played no part in your achievements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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It's not Lucky that your forebearers struggled to create civilization to make your life better.
 
Khane

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Lithose_sl said:
Of course it does. Why acknowledge it if it doesn't do that? You guys are forming a cognitive dissonance over this. If you've been given an advantage, then your accomplishments are easier than someone else. This is like stating that the winner of a race got a head start but it doesn't cheapen his victory. How? In what other situation would you ever think that?
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Indeed.

Lithose_sl said:
The problem Cad is pointing out is attempting to tell someone ELSE what their advantages are especially based onaveragemetrics. We spent hundreds of years struggling to break free of classification based systems and get people to attempt to recognize people on their individual merits, actual actions they've taken; rather than "he's one of the poor ones--he's destined for X, Y, Z"..."He's white, he has R Q B advantage".
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Where exactly did Cad point out that was actually what was happening in this thread? Where did anyone try to cheapen anyone else's accomplishments or say "check your privilege"?

Lithose_sl said:
Telling someone they need to acknowledge how lucky they are is removing nuance. It's not a good thing. It's attempting to put that astrick there to turn a very very complex set of issues into an ideological framework. (And it's not odd to do that, people do this all the time with very complex issues). But the point is, if we say "X group succeeds because they have a lot of advantages" is that really any better analytically than saying "black people commit more crime and thus fail". It's just raw grouping, and it sucks away nuance. I'm guilty of this, for sure--I don't think human beings could exist without doing this, the world is just too complex. But as people are increasingly being grouped like this openly, even in national political debates? Yeah, people are going to start calling out how its really inaccurate on an individual level.
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Did anyone say "you're lucky"? And even if someone does say that is it worth getting bent out of shape over? People, for whatever reason, are taught to be humble. We say shit like that under completely false pretenses just to adhere to that silly mantra we are all taught as children. "Nobody likes a bad winner". I mean, did you guys refuse to shake hands after a little league game you won? Or say "bad game, you suck"? Were you a poor sport?

But even disregarding that, can you point out to me what the hell that moron was talking about when he said I was telling people to check their privilege?
 
chaos

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Lithose_sl said:
Of course it does. Why acknowledge it if it doesn't do that? You guys are forming a cognitive dissonance over this. If you've been given an advantage, then your accomplishments are easier than someone else. This is like stating that the winner of a race got a head start but it doesn't cheapen his victory. How? In what other situation would you ever think that? (And I'm pointing this out only because its important we think this through...so many people end up believing things without rationally examining them because that belief has a connotation of morality to it, as this one does.)

The problem Cad is pointing out is attempting to tell someone ELSE what their advantages are especially based onaveragemetrics. We spent hundreds of years struggling to break free of classification based systems and get people to attempt to recognize people on their individual merits, actual actions they've taken; rather than "he's one of the poor ones--he's destined for X, Y, Z"..."He's white, he has R Q B advantage".

Telling someone they need to acknowledge how lucky they are is removing nuance. It's not a good thing. It's attempting to put that astrick there to turn a very very complex set of issues into an ideological framework. (And it's not odd to do that, people do this all the time with very complex issues). But the point is, if we say "X group succeeds because they have a lot of advantages" is that really any better analytically than saying "black people commit more crime and thus fail". It's just raw grouping, and it sucks away nuance. I'm guilty of this, for sure--I don't think human beings could exist without doing this, the world is just too complex. But as people are increasingly being grouped like this openly, even in national political debates? Yeah, people are going to start calling out how its really inaccurate on an individual level.
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Why not acknowledge it? Do you not think there is some benefit to examining your life and finding points where things could have gone differently? Good or bad.

You're turning this into a competition analogy and it doesn't fit. Some measure of fortune does not diminish your accomplishments, and if just acknowledging that fortune does that to you then maybe you have some issues you need to work on. There's no asterisk, there's no competition, it's just a string of shit that happens until the universe goes dark.

You're right, making sweeping generalizations like "you're white so you got ahead" is stupid. But more realistic ones, like "that professor who took you aside and showed you how to work the system and graduate in half the time really did you a favor" isn't, and it doesn't diminish the work of the person who did it.

Bunch of sensitive women in here, god damn, anyone even suggests you didn't hulk your achievements up a mountain bare-chested and it is some kind of attack directly on your testes.
 
fanaskin

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There's nothing lucky about achieving an intention. Life is a chain it didn't start when you were conceived.
 
khalid

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chaos_sl said:
Bunch of sensitive women in here, god damn, anyone even suggests you didn't hulk your achievements up a mountain bare-chested and it is some kind of attack directly on your testes.
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We are proud of our accomplishments. If anyone is being an immature child here, it is you that keeps trying to say we are abunch of sensitives because we don't like people directly trying to diminish our accomplishments.
 
Khane

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khalid_sl said:
We are proud of our accomplishments. If anyone is being an immature child here, it is you that keeps trying to say we are abunch of sensitives because we don't like people directly trying to diminish our accomplishments.
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In all fairness...

Are you serious? Get the fuck over it. There is always a little luck involved in anything we do. We assess risk, we take the best course of action we know how to, we prepare ourselves for the worst the best we can, but there's always some luck. Anyone who says "That was all me" is full of it.
 
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