Indiana...Religious Freedom eh? *sigh*
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Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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Mentioned it several times before. Hello private clubs for a business even if we sell cakes. Charge $1.00 to join and just throw it on the bill. Ooooh sorry we're not taking new members today or we're full.
Multiple ways to skin a cat.
khalid
Unelected Mod
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Sure, people that are deadset on discrimination will keep trying to find ways, but pushing it further and further to the fringe is better for society. Hell, even Augusta had to open up after public pressure.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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Faltigoth
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Catholic Church gay liturgy? Someone was reading some John Boswell or some such tripe. The Church almost certainly did not have a gay marriage liturgy and would in no way, shape or form condone such a thing today even if - a big if - a handful of priests married a couple dudes in 900 AD.
BoldW
Molten Core Raider
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Hey, learn-ed peeps - What's the litmus test for Religious Belief, anyhow? Must it include an entity of spaghetti monster provability (eg none). I mean, I don't think any strongly held belief "cuts the cake". How does one prove that one's asinine belief should trump mostly-if-not-all genetic sexual preference and would somehow create unwarranted hardship?
Sorry if this has been answered. This thread moves fast.
Sorry if this has been answered. This thread moves fast.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Exactly. Nailed it.
Religions that can't prove their core claims true shouldn't be allowed to dictate laws in any country.
Prove your god exists first, then we'll talk about your beliefs legitimizing discrimination.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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that's now how it works in reality, the number of adherents, traditions and history make it defacto more legitimate than spaghetti monsterism. really even the law and rights are made up too, the only real acid test of legitimacy is whatever you can get the majority of people to believe.
Furry
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I am very simply for free speech, even hate speech. I do not support laws of any type which allow free speech only when you agree with it. Only the government should be compelled not to hate.
It's the same sort of thoughts which are leading to these stupid anti-rape zone college rules through government funding tactics. It's censoring unpopular opinions because you can- when the very purpose of government should be to protect the most unpopular and stupidest of law abiding people. I may not agree with them, but I will protect their right to exist under the laws of the constitution. Compelling people to do things, even simple things they should be willing to do themselves, such as serving gays is a moral crime.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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As an aside, I feel like people who defend gay rights by comparing it to blacks and the civil right movement automatically lose. It's like the gay civil rights version of godwinning, where the first person who tries to call someone a racist because of an issue on gay rights loses.
Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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In dry counties and neighboring non dry counties in TX because they didn't want the trash drinking they went to memberships. You go out to eat at a restaurant and add $1.00 to the bill to become a member and drink (one person per table). If you're trash or someone they don't want to serve to, they don't. Problem solved.
Even the chain restaurants that serve have to offer memberships. The ones that aren't chains basically use it a way to not serve terash "Sorry membership is closed". Even getting a drink at Applebees requires a membership etc...
Not saying it's right, but that's how the real world works.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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That membership stuff is just an extension of Texas's long history of restricting alcohol. You couldn't buy a mixed drink anywhere in the state until the early 1970s. As the laws eased up slightly private clubs could sell drinks hence restaurants offering private club memberships.
The similarities between dry counties in Texas and your cake membership idea are superficial at best.
The similarities between dry counties in Texas and your cake membership idea are superficial at best.
Sebudai
Ssraeszha Raider
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Can't imagine why I'd stop making that comparison considering it's a perfect one. Is it the only argument I have? No, but...
khalid
Unelected Mod
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I don't see why it is a bad comparison and comparing it to Godwin is pretty silly. It is an almost perfect comparison in fact, and as Sebudai points out, it pretty much wins the argument by default (unless you don't care about discrimination at all, like Furry!).
khalid
Unelected Mod
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Even if I grant you that, so? Discriminating against people is also a "moral crime", a worse one.
Also, AGAIN, stopping someone from DOING SOMETHING is not the same as censoring their THOUGHTS. You keep saying this, they aren't the same dipshit. Go ahead and hate gays all you want. The minute you start discriminating against them is when the government should step in.
Que? Pretty sure not letting people discriminate against them because they are "unpopular" is protecting them. So you're saying they should be protected. But that protecting them is a moral crime. I'm so confused sir.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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The government shouldn't have to step in, but people in general are too stupid, biased, and prejudiced at this stage in our development that frankly they sometimes leave it no choice. A few more generations down the road and we won't have to worry as much about this silliness.
Shouldn't really shock anyone that the people who are morally bankrupt when dealing with anyone who doesn't look the same as them or act the same as them are the ones constantly asking for less government involvement in anything.
Shouldn't really shock anyone that the people who are morally bankrupt when dealing with anyone who doesn't look the same as them or act the same as them are the ones constantly asking for less government involvement in anything.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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I think the opposite actually, in an effort to "standardize" people you'll be increasingly monitored and manipulated at a basic level.
Furry
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Correct, but one is perpetrated by the individual, which has greater freedom to do things under the constitution. The other is done by the government, which does not and should not have that freedom to discriminate at will.
You aren't stopping them from doing stuff, you are compelling them to do stuff against their will. This is not something the government should do. Also... You are aware I'm gay, right? I don't let my own beliefs interfere with my moral compass.
The unpopular people/opinions in this scenario are the religious nuts. Just because they're objectively wrong and hateful doesn't mean their right to have that opinion isn't legal.Taloo_sl said: