Indiana...Religious Freedom eh? *sigh*

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Furry

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The funny thing is I'm probably the gayest person in this thread, and I'm the only person who understand that I WANT to know which cake bakeries hate gays. There's a reason its okay for judges to recuse themselves from stuff. Forcing a faggot hater to make a cake for me could be the day they decide they've fucking had it and go alluha cakebar.
 

hodj

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Appealing to your own self loathing and sexual confusion isn't an argument for justifying discriminatory business practices.

*the more you know

I'm more therianthropic than furry. Fossa is my animal.

So on all levels but physical, you are a cat like creature from the island of Madagascar?
 

BoldW

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Taking no action is not acting on your hate. You are the one who seems to insist that this situation is one that it isn't.
Seeing a black man (or gay, or woman) drown and not acting, where you would a white man, is not acting on your hate? How does this fall into your everything is a choice hypothesis?
 

Furry

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Seeing a black man (or gay, or woman) drown and not acting, where you would a white man, is not acting on your hate? How does this fall into your everything is a choice hypothesis?
It's a choice, as everything you do in life is one. It is a hateful choice yes, but one protected by the constitution. You as a person shouldn't be compelled to act to help people.

Is it the choice I'd make? No, but I suspect its the one most of you would make. That person in the water could be religious after all.
 

khalid

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but I suspect its the one most of you would make. That person in the water could be religious after all.
Oh look, another "all you people that are against discrimination are the real racists!" argument again. Joy.
 

hodj

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Sexual preference is not a "choice" as in, its not something people make conscious decisions regarding.

This is a simple fact.

It is a complex combination of genetic predisposition and cultural contexts and calling it a "choice" is erronneous on a fundamental level.

My suggestion is less time in fursuits, and more time in sociology/anthropology/biology classes.
 

Furry

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Oh look, another "all you people that are against discrimination are the real racists!" argument again. Joy.
My love of freedom extends even to racist bigots. Not my fault you guys choose to hate them and try to force them to do what you think is morally acceptable.
 

hodj

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Being Gay Not a Choice: Science Contradicts Ben Carson

Most scientists would disagree. Years of research suggest that people can't change their sexual orientation because they want to, and that trying can cause mental anguish. What's more, some studies suggest that being gay may have a genetic or biological basis. [5 Myths About Gay People Debunked]

Biological origins

Humans aren't the only species that has same-sex pairings. For instance, female Japanese macaques may sometimes participate in energetic sexual stimulation. Lions, chimpanzees, bison and dolphins have also been spotted in same-sex pairings. And nearly 130 bird species have been observed engaging in sexual activities with same-sex partners.

While the evolutionary purpose of this behavior is not clear, the fact that animals routinely exhibit same-sex behavior belies the notion that gay sex is a modern human innovation.

No studies have found specific "gay genes" that reliably make someone gay. But some genes may make being gay likelier. For instance, a 2014 study in the journal Psychological Medicine showed that a gene on the X chromosome (one of the sex chromosomes) called Xq28 and a gene on chromosome 8 seem to be found in higher prevalence in men who are gay. That study, involving more than 400 pairs of gay brothers, followed the 1993 report by geneticist Dean Hamer suggesting the existence of a "gay gene." Other research has found that being gay or lesbian tends to run in families. It's also more likely for two identical twins, who share all of their genes, to both be gay than it is for two fraternal twins, who share just half of their genes, to both be homosexual. Those studies also suggest that genes seemed to have a greater influence on the sexual orientation of male versus female identical twins.

A 2012 study proposed that epigenetic changes, or alterations in marks on DNA that turn certain genes on and off, may play a role in homosexuality. This type of gene regulation isn't as stable as DNA, and can be switched on and off by environmental factors or conditions in the womb during prenatal development. But this so-called epigenome can also be passed on from generation to generation, which would explain why being gay seems to run in families, even when a single gene can't be pinpointed.

How such gay genes get passed down from generation to generation has puzzled scientists, given that gay couples cannot reproduce. One study found that gay men are biologically predisposed to help care for their nieces and nephews. Essentially, these gay uncles are helping their relatives to reproduce. "Kin therefore pass on more of the genes which they would share with their homosexual relatives," said evolutionary psychologist Paul Vasey of the University of Lethbridge in Canada, in a past Live Science article.

Orientation change

If being gay is truly a choice, then people who attempt to change their orientation should be able to do so. But most people who are gay describe it as a deeply ingrained attraction that can't simply be shut off or redirected.

On that, studies are clear. Gay conversion therapy is ineffective, several studies have found, and the American Psychological Association now says such treatment is harmful and can worsen feelings of self-hatred.

For men, studies suggest that orientation is fixed by the time the individual reaches puberty. Women show greater levels of "erotic plasticity," meaning their levels of attraction are more significantly shaped by culture, experience and love than is the case for men. However, even women who switch from gay to straight lifestyles don't stop being attracted to women, according to a 2012 study in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior.

Those results suggest that while people can change their behavior, they aren't really changing their basic sexual attraction.
 

khalid

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My suggestion is less time in fursuits, and more time in sociology/anthropology/biology classes.
He doesn't even need to take a class on it, he can just, you know, talk to pretty much any gay person. I have never met a gay person that implied anything at all of it being a choice.

Hell, or talk to straight people. Who "decided" to be straight? I find women attractive, I don't find dudes attractive. There wasn't a time in my life that it wasn't this way. Well, except for Burt Reynolds.
 

AngryGerbil

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When gays were stoned to death for being gay, were there inclined to be gay who chose not to be gay because of that threat of stony death? Societies acceptance of gaydom has made it easier to choose to be gay. Since I believe in freedom, I ultimately believe in a person ability to choose their own fate whenever possible. That freedom can't exist without tards being able to choose to hate gays.

I VERY much think hating gays is just as legitimate a freedom as loving gays in the stance of freedom and the law. One might be more moral, but you can't have one without accepting both. This is the responsibility of society.

And I meant to say everything YOU DO in life is a choice, but I know how the people of this forum like to flip out over this stuff, so I'm okay letting you have your fun. I'm very much aware that this is an excersize in futility. Nobody here is willing or able to listen to reason.
It was a yes or no question. Is sexual orientation a choice?

(And no, Rage, he didn't already answer me. He said "you can choose to fuck a guy or not to". But that's not what I'm asking.)
 

hodj

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Listen here - stop making bigoted, tyrannical choices for everyone. This is what Furry's trying to get across. Hugh Jackman > Burt Reynolds anyway.
Its an unfair comparison because Burt today is getting pretty rusty.

Burt totally stomps on Jackman at his peak though.
 

Sebudai

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If you want to do business in the US, you have to abide by fair business practices. This isn't up for debate. Take your libertarian horeshit and shove it up your ass, Furry.
 

Furry

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It was a yes or no question. Is sexual orientation a choice?

(And no, Rage, he didn't already answer me. He said "you can choose to fuck a guy or not to". But that's not what I'm asking.)
My answer is I don't know, and neither do you. As much as the hodj and his sciociology SJW crew of scientific feels would like to assert that it is, it's far from scientific fact.

In my personal experience, there's a lot of shades of gayness. Some people just want to try it out, some people do it on the side cause they don't get enough action. Some people just hate dealing with women. Some people just fucking love the cock. Some people were just confused and actually straight. Why all of these conditions exist and to what degree the gayness is a natural instinct or a choice is all interesting study. Whatever the answers, government should accept the choice either way. I ultimately believe in people's freedoms.
 

hodj

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Did furry just accuse me of being a social justice warrior?

Did you miss the Trayvon Martin thread, Furry?



In my personal experience, there's a lot of shades of gayness.
Its called the Kinsey scale.

scientific fact
Science doesn't do facts. It doesn't do proofing. It creates predictive and explanatory models which are as accurate a reflection of naturalistic phenomena as we can reach at any particular point in time.

Gayness not being a choice is a reality. It doesn't need science to prove it as a fact, because science does not do that.

Gayness not being a choice is an observed natural phenomena across a wide spectrum of living species, including but not exclusive to, humans.
 

AngryGerbil

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I don't know if sexual orientation is a choice or not? There are varying shades of sexual orientation, yes. But just because you don't understand a thing doesn't mean you get to hoist your ignorance on others.

Let me help you out.

Do you make a conscious rationalized thought out decision to get a boner or not? Do you look at various humans and decide which ones will be allowed to generate your boners and which ones will not?