Justice for Zimmerman

Ignatius · Jul 16, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
It would surprise you how many people die on the shitter. It's because of the way you shit. You close your larnyx to create internal pressure to push that turd out.

The turd is just destined to win sometimes.

You must spread some reputation around....

Magimaster · Jul 16, 2013

You may not be trying to, but you are, by claiming that someone who did the correct thing (calling the police on someone they believed to be suspicious in a neighborhood with many recent breakins) was creating an unsafe situation by calling the police. Normally, when someone calls the police on someone they think looks suspicious, this is a good thing. Yet magically in this case, its a sign that Zimmerman was irresponsible and seeking to create a confrontation with Martin.

I'm a 30 year old white man and if i saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd run like hell too. That's not suspicious, that's a normal human reaction because guess what, to the guy on foot the person in the vehicle is the suspicious one. Funny how perspective changes when you look at the situation form the other guys point of view. Even more so when I was a teenager, and this is someone who gew up in good old white suburbia.

Zimmerman's suspicion was reasonable because of the context of the fact of the multiple recent break ins in the area in the recent past at the time the event occurred.

What suspicion? What made Martin suspicious to Zimmerman that his first thought was to call the police, when no one else in the neighborhood did, until the fight/shooting?

Vaclav · Jul 16, 2013

hodj_sl said:
Well, first and foremost, you have an absolute right to call police about a suspicious looking person. That's a burden shifting onto the person trying to...do the right thing.

Secondly, Zimmerman didn't choose to confront Martin. That never happened. That's a misstatement of the facts of the case. Zimmerman got out after Martin ran around the townhomes and down the dog path. Zimmerman traveled about 30 yards MAYBE to the end of the dog path so he could continue to report to the police the location of the suspicious person.

That's not attempting to confront anyone. Its a complete misunderstanding of what occurred.

Effectively, any argument for Zimmerman's guilt must rely on burden shifting just like this. That's why no argument for that side makes sense. Nothing Zimmerman was doing was attempting to create a confrontation. He did not seek to confront Martin. He simply attempted to report his location to police as he (Martin) ran. Martin RETURNED and attacked Zimmerman. MARTIN was the one who sought an actual, physical confrontation to the situation.

Erhm? On your own timeline earlier I swore it had "They talked" then separated then Trayvon looped back? This is the first time I've heard someone quote that they DIDN'T talk once briefly then Traytray looped back. (including what I thought was past statements of your own)

Not that it matters really (in fact makes Traytray swinging back for him worse IMO) but clarifying.

Chukzombi · Jul 16, 2013

Die pls

Gavinmad · Jul 16, 2013

I'm a 30 year old white man and if I saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd continue walking home at the exact same speed.

*edit*

And I don't live in a pleasant gated community, I live in a crime-infested ghetto shithole.

W4RH34D_sl · Jul 16, 2013

Gavinrad_sl said:
I'm a 30 year old white man and if I saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd continue walking home at the exact same speed.

When I walk in and I see someone and they see me, I waive, because we're fucking human beings. Kinda hard to imagine such a closed community where no one knows each other.

Magimaster · Jul 16, 2013

khalid_sl said:
By differing, you mean that you think that calling the police on someone you think might be suspicious is an aggressive act that is akin to wanting to start a fight. This is so out of whack to how most people view such an act that its hard to think you truly believe it and just aren't trying to play devils advocate/troll.

Nowhere did i say that calling the police is an 'aggressive act'. It was a choice, simple as that.

hodj · Jul 16, 2013

Magimaster_sl said:
I'm a 30 year old white man and if i saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd run like hell too. That's not suspicious, that's a normal human reaction because guess what, to the guy on foot the person in the vehicle is the suspicious one. Funny how perspective changes when you look at the situation form the other guys point of view. Even more so when I was a teenager, and this is someone who gew up in good old white suburbia.

I'm a 33 year old white male and I've been in this situation several times, when I was 16 and 17, and I never ran. I've literally been in this position. I was walking down the street and I was confronted by someone who lived a few blocks away from me accusing me of vandalizing their house. I didn't run, I waited for the police and explained to them that I lived in the neighborhood, had no idea who this guy was or what his problem with me was, and that ended it. There was zero evidence that I had done anything wrong, because I hadn't. And if you did run, it would only make you look like you had done something wrong, hurting your case in the long run.

What suspicion? What made Martin suspicious to Zimmerman that his first thought was to call the police, when no one else in the neighborhood did, until the fight/shooting?

He was walking down the street in the rain and Zimmerman felt he was looking into houses, and he matched the description of the people committing B&Es in the neighborhood.

Again, this line of reasoning you're going down is basically this

Even though there's been several break ins in the area, and Martin matched the general description of those involved and even though he was walking alone with his face concealed in the rain, and had at least the appearance of being out of place and looking into homes, and even though Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood watch and was driving on his way to the store and called the police first and never approached Martin directly, he was still in the wrong because he called the police and got out of the car.

I'm saying it takes a completely different moral outlook from what I have and what I think most people have, to think that Zimmerman was in any way in the wrong, I guess. Normally people like this would be hailed as the good guy, trying to prevent crime in their neighborhood, but when something goes wrong, suddenly all the blame is on them for doing...exactly what they should have done.

hodj · Jul 16, 2013

Vaclav_sl said:
Erhm? On your own timeline earlier I swore it had "They talked" then separated then Trayvon looped back? .

No, never, I've never heard that claimed

Martin passed by Zimmerman's vehicle, but there was no verbal contact.

The image is now linked in the very first post in this thread, so I won't bother reposting it. Just go to the first page and read it again.

BoldW · Jul 16, 2013

Magimaster_sl said:
Not trying to fuck with him at all. Someone asked for a different viewpoint and I'm putting one out there. Iv'e already said i agree he was justified in defending himself. hodj and I differ on the choices made by both people leading up to the shooting.

By all means then. Please forgive me if I only glance over the posts

Merlin_sl · Jul 16, 2013

Gavinrad_sl said:
I'm a 30 year old white man and if I saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd continue walking home at the exact same speed.

*edit*

And I don't live in a pleasant gated community, I live in a crime-infested ghetto shithole.

I'm only hoping fate will take it's course...............

Gavinmad · Jul 16, 2013

Priapus_sl said:
I'm only hoping fate will take it's course...............

Merlin apparently hired a hitman to kill me.

Magimaster · Jul 16, 2013

He was walking down the street in the rain and Zimmerman felt he was looking into houses, and he matched the description of the people committing B&Es in the neighborhood.

Again, this line of reasoning you're going down is basically this

Even though there's been several break ins in the area, and Martin matched the general description of those involved and even though he was walking alone with his face concealed in the rain, and had at least the appearance of being out of place and looking into homes, and even though Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood watch and was driving on his way to the store and called the police first and never approached Martin directly, he was still in the wrong because he called the police and got out of the car.

I'm saying it takes a completely different moral outlook to think that Zimmerman was in any way in the wrong, I guess. Normally people like this would be hailed as the good guy, trying to prevent crime in their neighborhood, but when something goes wrong, suddenly all the blame is on them for doing...exactly what they should have done.

Meh, we can keep going in circles for a while but I'm not interested in playing that game. I guess my comments fall more under hindsight, since the simplest solution would have been for him to call the police and stay in his vehicle. Since then, even if Martin came after him, he was safely within his vehicle and could have left if he felt threatened.

I do like your last 2 sentences since I look at this fiasco the same as any story I hear about a police raid hitting the wrong house or such: I would have cheered for Zimmerman if he had actually caught someone suspicious, instead he fucked it up and the wrong person got killed. And funny, we do blame the police for fucking up the raids, so why are people so willing to give Zimmerman a pass? Is it because the trolls are right and this only 'one more dead future thug'?

hodj · Jul 16, 2013

Nah, I think police are held to a higher standard than regular citizens. They're trained, they have the power and authority of the government behind them, they are the ones who are supposed to be conducting due process and following proper procedures to ensure that their raids are being conducted according to the law, etc.

Its a different social role. I truly do wish Martin was alive today. I do. But situations sometimes spiral out of control by no one's explicit desire. The world is just too messy to not have some leeway for accidental conflicts of this nature to occur and sometimes end in the death of one individual or the other. When they do, we shouldn't turn the whole situation into a political campaign and effectively exploit the death or tragedy for political or other, profit oriented or what have you, reasons.

khalid · Jul 16, 2013

I know you didn't just equate a mistaken phone call to a mistaken swat raid. I mean, no one is that stupid, right?

fanaskin · Jul 16, 2013

Magimaster_sl said:
Meh, we can keep going in circles for a while but I'm not interested in playing that game. I guess my comments fall more under hindsight, since the simplest solution would have been for him to call the police and stay in his vehicle. Since then, even if Martin came after him, he was safely within his vehicle and could have left if he felt threatened.

I do like your last 2 sentences since I look at this fiasco the same as any story I hear about a police raid hitting the wrong house or such: I would have cheered for Zimmerman if he had actually caught someone suspicious, instead he fucked it up and the wrong person got killed. And funny, we do blame the police for fucking up the raids, so why are people so willing to give Zimmerman a pass? Is it because the trolls are right and this only 'one more dead future thug'?

Let father protect you, the state is father.

Also treyvon was a criminal his crime was assault he chose his actions, why is treyvons actions invisible to some people? The neighborhood watchman can walk around his fucking gated communities without fearing for his life u know, you don't have to let fear dominate your decision tree. You can trust responsible people not to shoot you if you don't punch them in the face and smash their head in the ground.

Fedor · Jul 16, 2013

Lithose · Jul 16, 2013

Magimaster_sl said:
I'm a 30 year old white man and if i saw someone staring at me and talking on a phone as I walked home, I'd run like hell too. That's not suspicious, that's a normal human reaction because guess what, to the guy on foot the person in the vehicle is the suspicious one. Funny how perspective changes when you look at the situation form the other guys point of view. Even more so when I was a teenager, and this is someone who gew up in good old white suburbia.

When you got home, would return to confront the man you ran away from? Just wondering. Because that's what Trayvon did. And looking at it from HIS point of view, if I had gotten away from someone I was scared of, I wouldn't have gone back and confronted the person....Would you have?

Gravel · Jul 16, 2013

BoldW_sl said:
The fact that people at the highest level of our national government are playing this game is disgusting, even moreso than the media. Obama, Holder, Clinton (ok, well she's private right now) are all echoing the absurdities that the uninformed are spouting. Are they not supposed to be great lawyers, and as such generally want to look at the evidence first? If in fact they did, then they're just continuing to further ruin one man's life to push an agenda. That is what makes me upset now (I gotta be upset about something or else I'd implode).

I feel like our government has lost its (collective) damn mind. What the fuck is going on? Isn't there some advisor or something that can tell them to stop being fucking retarded?

Magimaster · Jul 16, 2013

Lithose_sl said:
When you got home, would return to confront the man you ran away from? Just wondering. Because that's what Trayvon did. And looking at it from HIS point of view, if I had gotten away from someone I was scared of, I wouldn't have gone back and confronted the person....Would you have?

Nope, and Martin was wrong to go back.

Justice for Zimmerman

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