Justice for Zimmerman

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fanaskin

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Not really every other ethnic group including blacks who come from Africa work fine in the "white privileged" society, why is it specifically white privilege that is a disadvantage to specifically american blacks when every over ethnic group including Muslims are more economically successful.
 

Tuco

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I agree that in the context of blacks in the US the term 'black disadvantage' is more useful and accurate than 'white privilege'. Of all the racism and bigotry against different groups it hits blacks the worst. Probably the second most denigrated race in the US is hispanics and the prevailing complaint about them is they work too hard.
 

Cad

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I use "everybody" in the general "we're all in this together" sense as opposed to the "each and every one of you is part of the problem" sense. However, if your question is serious, there is a way your attitude can change: You can stop contributing to the acceptability of racism by not responding to ignorant racist comments. While silence isn't an explicit form of approval, it does send the message that making racist comments is normal or acceptable, which is part of the problem. I'm not asking you to RRP or ban people for racism (that probably does more harm than good), but responding with "That's not cool" or "Those kinds of comments aren't welcome here" would send the message that you don't want to be an enabler for a system that perpetuates hate. I think it's telling that people can post "nagger" comments (Isn't that cute? It's not racist because he said "nagger"!) or racist "joke" pics and nobody will bat an eyelash but I'll get a "Please stop this shit" for engaging in respectful, civil discourse about whether or not Zimmerman's life was ever actually in danger. Heck, I guess you get a lot more complaints about my conversation topic than you do about "nagger" comments or racist pics but taking the path of least resistance and "going with the flow" is often what allows racism to flourish unchallenged.
Hypothetically

What if the problem isn't racism? What if racism is just a reaction to the reality?
 

Hoss

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It bottles my mind
Bottles? This situation causes your mind to be shoved into a bottle?
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Are you white? Then you have white privilege. This has nothing to do with your ancestry. It has nothing to do with putting blame on you. It has nothing to do with trying to make you feel guilty. It has everything to do with the many, many small (and sometimes big) advantages being white gives you in your day-to-day life.
Whatever advantages you think there are, they are counterbalanced by some serious disadvantages. For instance, we are less athletic, have smaller dicks, have to go to work every day, have to put forth effort for everything we have, fuck fewer bitches. The list goes on and on. (note I guess those last couple wouldn't apply to trust fund babies, but that's such a small % of people that it's hardly relevant)
 

Tanoomba

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Don't touch my privilege!
I appreciate you not responding to me (you don't want to get infracted again, after all), but this is more proof that you're really, really bad at getting the point. In your defense, I'll take back what I said about you in particular being privileged. That you were able to get so far in life without misinterpreting the warning labels on household cleaners and chugging them down is a testament to your tenacity and ability to overcome the obstacles your lack of reading comprehension has put in your life. Godspeed, man.
 

BoldW

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I agree that in the context of blacks in the US the term 'black disadvantage' is more useful and accurate than 'white privilege'. Of all the racism and bigotry against different groups it hits blacks the worst. Probably the second most denigrated race in the US is hispanics and the prevailing complaint about them is they work too hard.
Depends where you are. That they don't speak English may be up there. The thing about Mexicans (And I'm going to use this term loosely for anyone from South of the border) is they actually do want better for their families and work their asses off for it. Most of the illegals I've known (the ones we should be allowing in) do NOT want to be a part of the system whatsoever. They do, however, want their kids to be part of the system and partake in the American dream.

The hipster generation can keep spouting their white privilege and 1st world problems BS all day long as far as I'm concerned. They're the ones who have real guilt living sucking off their parents teets while getting useless Arts degrees. They just want other people to change and chip in, and not themselves.
 

iannis

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It's insane. Institutionalized male white guilt. It's fucking insane.

I liked it better 10 years ago when it ACL stood for angry college liberal, not this new trend of angsty college liberal.
 

Cad

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Are you white? Then you have white privilege. This has nothing to do with your ancestry. It has nothing to do with putting blame on you. It has nothing to do with trying to make you feel guilty. It has everything to do with the many, many small (and sometimes big) advantages being white gives you in your day-to-day life.

I get why you're miffed. You didn't ask for white privilege. You didn't do anything to keep the black man down. You worked hard to earn everything you have in your life. Why the fuck should you have to listen to anyone tell you that you were just lucky? But see, that's the thing about being lucky. You don't ask for it or earn it, it just happens. If you are white in a society that favors white people, you are privileged. You are benefiting from a system that gives you advantages you didn't have to earn or even ask for. I'm not saying this to take away from whatever your personal accomplishments in life are. I'm just saying it's stupid to say "black people have to fix their own shit" from a position of privilege they've never known. Racism is real. It actually exists today. I don't think anyone would deny that. It also allows for the continuation of a societal system that favors some races over others. We need society-wide attitude changes to fix this broken system, not just herping "It's not my fault! Fix your own shit!"
To get right down to the point:

So fucking what? Life's not fair. People are born smarter than others, better looking than others, in more wealthy countries than others. I'm sorry your life isn't how you want it. If you just can't stand how "privileged" my life is, fuck you. Kill yourself. Save us the trouble.

The end
 

hodj

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I agree that in the context of blacks in the US the term 'black disadvantage' is more useful and accurate than 'white privilege'. Of all the racism and bigotry against different groups it hits blacks the worst. Probably the second most denigrated race in the US is hispanics and the prevailing complaint about them is they work too hard.
What if I told you hispanic isn't a race, but rather is an ethnicity? And that this is where the whole "OMG RAYCISSSSSM!" argument breaks down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

Due to the technical distinctions involved in defining "race" vs. "ethnicity," there is confusion among the general population about the designation of Hispanic identity. Currently, the United States Census Bureau defines five race categories:[9]
White
Black or African American
Native American or Alaska Native
Asian
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
Because Hispanic roots are considered to be aligned with a European ancestry (Spain/Portugal), the Hispanic/Latino ancestry is defined solely as an ethnic designation (similar to being Norse, Germanic, or Scottish). Therefore, a person of Hispanic descent is typically defined using both race and ethnicity as an identifier-i.e. Black-Hispanic, White-Hispanic, Asian-Hispanic, Latin-Hispanic or "other race" Hispanic.
Which is why the whole "White Hispanic" thing with Zimmerman was so funny. Because the media was intentionally trying to emphasize Zimmerman's whiteness and downplay his roots to foreign minority communities. Its all about selectively choosing which race category you want the man to fall into based on your political agenda at that point.

Latino is also an ethnic term, rather than a racial one.

So basically, what you've said is that its almost as disadvantageous to be a latino with a European and Amer-Indian background as it is to be black. Sorta throws that whole "White privilege" argument right out of the water.

If you really want to know who the system benefits most, its this: Those who conform the most to it. And the system couldn't give a flying fuck what color skin they have. If you're willing to suck the US government's dick, you're good to go.
 

iannis

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Ax yourself this too: What is it that you do to be so self-loathingly guilty about?

After answering that in a probing and introspective fashion -- stop doing those things.

That's really all there is to it. The rest is just inventing a new way to hate people not like yourself. I can tell you from personal experience: the old ways workjust fine.
 

Tanoomba

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Hypothetically

What if the problem isn't racism? What if racism is just a reaction to the reality?
A valid question. I don' think you're suggesting that blacks might actually be genetically inferior (like Hodj said, we're all biologically the same), but that the problems they face are a result of their own actions (hypothetically). If that were true, would there be a way to fix the situation? I mean, we could say "Who the fuck cares? it's not our problem!", but we still share a society with black people, right? Even if the crime rate, lack of education, poor family situation, etc. were hypothetically all their fault, it still has consequences on everyone else's lives, right? Wouldn't it be in our collective best interest to see if there were ways to minimize these issues? At the very least, saying "these guys need to fix their own shit" only allows for the situation to get worse, as does accepting racist attitudes and comments (even if they were, hypothetically, a "reaction to reality"). Therefore, while I can't say I know how to "elevate" black people from their position of disadvantage, I do know that saying "not my problem" only makes things worse (for everyone). I like to think that getting rid of racist attitudes (regardless of how hypothetically "justified" they are) would go a long way to allowing black people to operate on the same playing field as everyone else.
 

Tuco

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A valid question. I don' think you're suggesting that blacks might actually be genetically inferior (like Hodj said, we're all biologically the same), but that the problems they face are a result of their own actions (hypothetically). If that were true, would there be a way to fix the situation? I mean, we could say "Who the fuck cares? it's not our problem!", but we still share a society with black people, right? Even if the crime rate, lack of education, poor family situation, etc. were hypothetically all their fault, it still has consequences on everyone else's lives, right? Wouldn't it be in our collective best interest to see if there were ways to minimize these issues? At the very least, saying "these guys need to fix their own shit" only allows for the situation to get worse, as does accepting racist attitudes and comments (even if they were, hypothetically, a "reaction to reality"). Therefore, while I can't say I know how to "elevate" black people from their position of disadvantage, I do know that saying "not my problem" only makes things worse (for everyone). I like to think that getting rid of racist attitudes (regardless of how hypothetically "justified" they are) would go a long way to allowing black people to operate on the same playing field as everyone else.
Hypothetically

What if the problem isn't racism? What if whites accepting a terrible culture only worsens the problem?
 

Tanoomba

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To get right down to the point:

So fucking what? Life's not fair. People are born smarter than others, better looking than others, in more wealthy countries than others. I'm sorry your life isn't how you want it. If you just can't stand how "privileged" my life is, fuck you. Kill yourself. Save us the trouble.

The end
Hey, that's an honest and straightforward perspective. "I got lucky, you didn't. Sucks to be you." I wonder how that attitude might change if you had a mentally challenged kid.
 

Hoss

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The attitudes that need to change are the attitudes in the black community itself. The only thing I can think of that people from outside that community can do, is to break up the communities. Maybe Liberals ladden with white guilt should start moving en masse into ghettos around the country? Kinda like when we used to buss black kids to white schools, but flipped on its head. BTW, serious question, how did bussing work out? I know it was wildly unpopular, but did the kids who were bussed do any better in life because of it?
 

Tanoomba

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Ax yourself this too: What is it that you do to be so self-loathingly guilty about?

After answering that in a probing and introspective fashion -- stop doing those things.

That's really all there is to it. The rest is just inventing a new way to hate people not like yourself. I can tell you from personal experience: the old ways workjust fine.
Who are you asking?

Like I said several times already, white privilege is not about guilt. Guilt means you did something wrong. You didn't have to do anything wrong to get white privilege. It's about acknowledging that you were given advantages that are deprived from others. If you're OK with that (like Cad), then fine. Enjoy your privilege and keep ironically bitching about how shitty black people are. And so the vicious cycle continues...
 

chaos

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To get right down to the point:

So fucking what? Life's not fair. People are born smarter than others, better looking than others, in more wealthy countries than others. I'm sorry your life isn't how you want it. If you just can't stand how "privileged" my life is, fuck you. Kill yourself. Save us the trouble.

The end
Harrison Bergeron is real, bros.
 

Cad

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Hey, that's an honest and straightforward perspective. "I got lucky, you didn't. Sucks to be you." I wonder how that attitude might change if you had a mentally challenged kid.
I don't.

But if I did, I wouldn't expect everyone to act like he wasn't mentally challenged. He'd still have a good life because I'd give it to him, but not because he earned it.

P.S.
Did you just analogize black people to mentally challenged kids?
 

hodj

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Hypothetically

What if the problem isn't racism? What if whites accepting a terrible culture only worsens the problem?
This is basically what's happening. Everyone is being told that "whites" can't have a valid opinion on problems in the black community, that we're responsible for those problems, so we can't solve them. So we're told that, essentially, we have to treat blacks as others have pointed out in this thread "Like animals"

Don't go near them, don't approach them, don't make presumptions about them, don't engage them. Zimmerman was in the wrong because he dared "approach" a black person on the street to ask them what they are doing in the area when they appear suspicious. Its just too racist to do so.

The really racist thing here is the kid's gloves and cultural segregation that this group of people making this argument are engaging in. Its not racist to say "I think I should be able to treat a black teenager like I would a white teenager if I thought they were both acting in a suspicious manner" Its not racist to say "I think African Americans are perfectly capable of integrating into our society and having normal family lives like everyone else"

Its actually racist to think the opposite. To think that African Americans are special snowflakes that can't be integrated, can't have normal family lives, can't be approached on the street without being in fear of being attacked by them, justifiably, because they have been so prejudiced against that their only response to a white hispanic talking to them in the street is to attack that person.

African Americans are not dumber than whites. They aren't genetically inferior. They can live up to our expectations. They can have higher expectations of themselves. Its not racist to say that and believe that. Its the exact opposite of racism. Expecting minorities to conform to American standards is not racism. To expect them to come here and never be able to live up to our standards...that's racism. That's a presumption that they are incapable of doing so. They aren't.
 

iannis

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This is basically what's happening. Everyone is being told that "whites" can't have a valid opinion on problems in the black community, that we're responsible for those problems, so we can't solve them. So we're told that, essentially, we have to treat blacks as others have pointed out in this thread "Like animals"

Don't go near them, don't approach them, don't make presumptions about them, don't engage them. Zimmerman was in the wrong because he dared "approach" a black person on the street to ask them what they are doing in the area when they appear suspicious. Its just too racist to do so.

The really racist thing here is the kid's gloves and cultural segregation that this group of people making this argument are engaging in. Its not racist to say "I think I should be able to treat a black teenager like I would a white teenager if I thought they were both acting in a suspicious manner" Its not racist to say "I think African Americans are perfectly capable of integrating into our society and having normal family lives like everyone else"

Its actually racist to think the opposite. To think that African Americans are special snowflakes that can't be integrated, can't have normal family lives, can't be approached on the street without being in fear of being attacked by them, justifiably, because they have been so prejudiced against that their only response to a white hispanic talking to them in the street is to attack that person.

African Americans are not dumber than whites. They aren't genetically inferior. They can live up to our expectations. They can have higher expectations of themselves. Its not racist to say that and believe that. Its the exact opposite of racism. Expecting minorities to conform to American standards is not racism. To expect them to come here and never be able to live up to our standards...that's racism. That's a presumption that they are incapable of doing so. They aren't.
Counter argument: Porch Monkeys.
 
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