League Of Legends

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
1,970
856
My runes are a mess because I sold all my runes to put together a ryze set and main him but pick order doesn't always result in that happening.
You can play Ryze mid and top, that gives you at least 2 slots to work with on a single champion. Get to know a support and you're pretty much golden.

The runes? you can fix that. STOP PLAYING RANKED FOR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES TO FILL THOSE RUNE PAGES. Grind that IP and get those rune sets sorted. Once your 3 rune sets are solid, start playing ranked again.
 

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
868
1
I like the idea of a "lane" or "role" queue, but as far as bitching about the tribunal, you are off of your rocker if you think the tribunal bans or punishes innocent people, or is in any way a detriment to the game.

As someone else said, it has a ridiculous punish rate because you don't get there unless you deserve to be.

Does it matter, if we queue for the role we would rather play? It doesn't force a meta on us, we force it on ourselves already, which is why when someone reacts or plays differently it is a cause for alarm. (And also because 9/10 times someone doing so is trolling.)

If you get into the game after saying support and you take Sona into the jungle and you fail, you get reported. You back off and don't do it again.

If it works, your team doesn't give a shit, no reports happen.

The only negative thing I see happening is that some people might be a bit afraid to put forth some creativity towards new champ roles/builds because of the threat of punishment.

But honestly, if it works like the tribunal currently works, they won't get messed with unless they go into every game with an AD Sona in the jungle or some crap. (Which we had happen in an aram the other day; AD Liss/Soraka and Sona - I was fairly nonplussed at the trio queue that all did that and had little to no recourse.)

Also I know ARAM is not the super duper legit shit, but the other night they put myself and a friend in as Soraka and Sona and we proceeded to kill them with kindness as it were; both characters get so beastly and they just kept the group at full health the entire time. So unfair.
 

Enob

Golden Knight of the Realm
413
112
My runes are a mess because I sold all my runes to put together a ryze set and main him
No one's going to address this? Where do I sell my runes at? Did you use all your refunds on runes? If you mean the rune combiner it takes 5 lower tier to make 1 of a higher tier that is COMPLETELY RANDOM. So if you're playing a bunch of ranked with less than T3 runes that's terrible. Did you "sell" all your T1 and T2 and just didn't get lucky to get the exact Ryze runes you needed? You've already stated that you own almost every champ in the game bought with IP but don't even have runes to play any of them properly. Stop blaming your runes issues on things out of your control and especially don't lie about it.

About ELO hell it certainly doesn't exist to the extent that people like Wizardhawk make it out to be but the improvement in player quality can't be denied even though it's not drastic. It's a pretty even gradient, as it should be, but it's more spotty at lower ranked play and not just in the troll department. The higher you get the more even players ability to play multiple roles get, the less trolls you get, the more wards are bought, etc. You of course, even in gold/diamond still get trolls, people out of their element in role selection, people who are good but are drunk/fucked up, and all the rest but it generally becomes a nicer playing experience the higher you get with fewer isolated cases. You never "get out of hell" but more like into a circle of hell that isn't quite as bad.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
Sona and Soraka are both OP in ARAMs. If I get either, I build a hybrid AP/aura build (aegis, athene's, abyssal, zhonya's.. etc..). Can't remember losing with either one yet.


@'elo hell' discussion.

There's two factors going on in lower level bronze that people rarely seem to grasp, and they are somewhat related. For one, a lot of trolls/feeders/etc.. do not go into the game intending to do that. Until something bad happens to them and their morale goes down, then they play even worse or just say 'ah fuck it, let's troll rest of game cause I'm mad' in their head.

The other factor is that people on each team are not all perfectly equal in skill. There's always going to be a best (#1) and worst (#5) player on each team. When your #5 ends up laning against their #1 in mid, yea he's likely to feed. But, there's a similar mismatch in your team's favor as well.

Now, if you are your team's #1 when this is going on, it's up to you to feed off the enemy team's weaker players and making plays for your team. You can't just sit back and passively farm/'win your lane' while blaming the mid for being a noob or feeding.

For example, Doublelift and Chauster did some duoing with the new lvl 30 accounts they were given to raise to diamond, they streamed a bunch of games while they were in bronze.. there were a few times when the enemy team was like 'report our bot lane for feeding/trolling' after doublelift was like 12/0/2 at 15 minutes. In reality, no one on the enemy team would have done any better against those guys, they'd come away from 3v2 and 4v2's getting kills without even dying sometimes, but the team immediately blames their bot lane for losing and probably started doing it right from first blood. Now, it's highly unlikely that the entire rest of the team could make up for the skill disparity that doublelift/chauster brought, but it illustrates the concept anyways. There's nothing the bot lane could do in a straight 2v2, only if the jungler and mid tried to gank before they got fed would it have had any impact at all.

Taken to a less extreme example, when your #4 and #5 are your bot lane, against the enemy #1 and #2, they are going to at least lose that lane most of the time and often feed a bit too much. But, that means your #1, 2 and 3 are against the enemy's #3, 4 and 5. Two of you should be owning your lane and creating plays/taking objectives for your team if you are any good at all.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
I have two rune pages, and I wanted one or two more and found out the rune page bundle is like 20$.what the fuck is that shit.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
10,298
13,450
No one's going to address this? Where do I sell my runes at? Did you use all your refunds on runes?
No I had only t3 runes, techinically not "selling" them but I combined all the ones that nobody really uses and ended up getting about 7 usable ones.

Tell me what you guys think a top can do when at 7 minutes in to the game you have an 0/3 akali mid, an udyr who is 0/3 and died to their mid twice too while trying to gank, and an adc who is being carried by the sona support in the lane with him. Should I abandon top at 5 minutes in and let aatrox just freefarm and take top inhib by 15? Should I sell all my items and buy 5 megatron cloaks at 10 minutes because now I'm getting ganked by an annie who has rabadon + sorc shoes + deathfire + catalyst at 13:30 on the game clock? Any of you who seriously think i'm lying about the kind of players I encounter on a daily basis (2 days ago I won 4/5 games, yesterday I had 4 out of 5 games where my team had a leaver or a 10 minute+ afk) feel free to duo with me a couple times some time and get a taste.

By the way, I know you can take ryze top or mid but 95% of the time that's gone in the first 2 picks, and if it's not we have someone in the last 3 picks who spams the shit out of chats claiming to be "gold 3 top on my brother's account" or "mid or feed" or "I have 90% win rate mid (or top or jungle or adc, followed by an impressively bad performance)". Hell, I got stuck supporting a tristana yesterday who flat out said all game long that she had no clue how to play a good adc (and she autoattacked creep waves instead of last hitting...).
 

Xalara

Golden Squire
826
81
Eh ELO hell does exist simply due to the fact that while statistics, etc. says you can escape it, it takes a bloody long time to do so. There is a reason why pros will duo queue until they at least hit high gold/platinum. We went through this discussion awhile back and that was pretty much the conclusion then.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
The quality of players is undoubtedly worse the lower you go, but you'll still win most games if you are much better than the people you play with. ELO hell is a term used to describe the frustrating experience of having to play with shitty players when you aren't much better than them.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
Tell me what you guys think a top can do when at7 minutesin to the game you have an 0/3 akali mid, an udyr who is 0/3 and died to their mid twice too while trying to gank, and an adc who is being carried by the sona support in the lane with him.

Should I abandon top at5 minutesin and let aatrox just freefarm and take top inhib by 15?

Should I sell all my items and buy 5 megatron cloaks at10 minutesbecause now I'm getting ganked by an annie who has rabadon + sorc shoes + deathfire + catalyst at 13:30 on the game clock?
Win your lane, focus objectives, roam bottom to secure an early dragon, focus turrets, keep pushing top lane to force enemy up, freeing pressure from other lanes. As Yorick you should be an immovable object top lane. Yorick is a bad pick to try and carry with, you just need to get really fat and make the enemy expend resources trying to kill you.

Since you seem obsessed with this one loss, lets analyze it.

Firstly, having teammates start 0-3 and 0-3 is not an impossible comeback, especially in Bronze. Sure, in Gold+ it becomes more of a challenge for sure, but it is still possible. Hell, watching LCS you will see teams get down by 5 or 6 kills and still make a comeback (see TSM vs Vulcan yesterday where Vulcan came back after giving up 2 kills to Dyrus at level 1 and were down by 6 kills and over 10k gold at one point but came back to even it up,
however they ended up throwing it themselves at the end

Your Team:
Yorick (6/6/3 -- 11.5k -- 223CS -- 0 wards)
Twitch (8/7/? -- ??? -- ??? -- ~0 wards)
Udyr (3/9/3 -- 7.7k -- 101CS -- 0 wards)
Sona (4/3/11 -- 9.1k -- 23CS -- 7g/1p wards)
Akali (1/9/1 -- 6.1k -- 68CS -- 0 wards)
22/34/18+ -- ~47k+ -- 7 Green & 1 Pink ward

Their Team:
Aatrox (5/4/4 --11.6k -- 182CS -- 1 ward)
Lee Sin (6/2/10 -- 11.8k -- 151CS -- 0 wards)
Annie (9/3/9 -- 14.2k -- 235CS -- 4 wards)
Caitlyn (8/8/6 -- 12.6k -- 176CS -- 0 wards)
Poppy (6/5/9 -- 11.2k -- 14CS -- 9 wards)
34/22/38 -- 61.4k -- 14 wards

So the history for the Twitch player has been pushed out of his last 10 games so we can only know his Kills & Deaths, seems like he was doing slightly better than enemy Caitlin so I assumed he had at least 12.6k gold as well. You were only 100 gold behind the enemy top laner. Your mid was the biggest weak spot, followed by your jungler, as you mentioned, but since you were keeping up & even ahead of enemy top and your ADC was keeping up with the enemy ADC, it should not have been impossible to comeback and/or carry this game if you were a better player. Lee Sin is a champ that falls off late game and they didn't have a support. Sona could have locked them down allowing Twitch to Spray & Pray with Yorick Ult avail for use on Twitch as well. All it takes is 1 team fight.

The KDAs & Gold stats always look worse at the end of the game, the Nexus turrets add another 2k to their stats. Without that the enemy team was more like 59k gold by the end of the game. Your team was 12k behind, which is a lot for sure, but at Bronze level 12k can be overcome.

Your conclusions on how to win this game are wildly inaccurate. You ask if you should abandon top by 5 minutes. NO, you do not abandon top, you win your lane and become a monster. It is BRONZE level, make the enemy come top to deal with you. If you can't destroy Aatrox than that's your fault, your best option would be to push down his turret quickly and keep on pushing. Your first mistake is thinking you need to get KILLS to win. What you need to focus on is OBJECTIVES. Another idea is to PUSH top lane hard then ROAM mid (not abandon top), you ROAM, force pressure at mid, then go back top lane once Aatrox has pushed it back to your turret. Even if you can't get a kill, at least you will allow your Akali to get some CS.

Your 2nd conclusion about buying Neg cloaks at 10 mins.... You are against a nearly all AD team except for Annie, you already know that's a dumb suggestion.Are you not warding?You purchased ZERO wards that game.http://quickfind.kassad.in/profile/na/Wizardhawk/. ZERO. Wow. You must be trolling us. I just don't understand how you could play top lane, complain about being ganked and your conclusion is to BUY 10 NEG CLOAKS, and not "Maybe I should buy some wards"? I'm now a victim of a troll. SIGH. Your opponent was also bad, but he at least bought ONE ward... lmao. These bronze players so funny. Anyway, your team bought 1/2 the wards as the enemy team, nuff said.

Oh and Annie with Rabadon, Sorcs, DFG & Catalyst by 13mins? Doesn't seem likely. That's 3300+1100+3100+1200 = 8.7k worth of items. If Annie killed Akali 3x and Udyr 2x that's 1,342 gold from kills, in the first 7 minutes. She only had 4 more kills the rest of the game and she probably had around 125CS by the 13minute mark, it's likely she had 1/2 the items you mentioned at best, also she never ended with a Catalyst so maybe you are just mis-remembering things, It's more likely she finished Dcap & boots and was 1/2way done her DFG by 13mins. Exaggerations man...

Back to the ward thing quickly since I believe it is another one of your weaker points (along with your champ pick & rune selections), you bought 19 wards in 10 games which is less than 2 wards per game. 10 of those wards were from 2 games where you played support. So when not playing support you bought 9 wards in 8 games. Just over 1 ward per game. That is pathetic. You will die less and can dominate your lane harder if you ward up. Wards allow you to be aggressive. You could ward enemy jungle and just keep pushing down turrets. Looking at my own stats, I've bought 49 wards in my past 10 games, I only played support 1x in my last 10 games. I purchased 10 wards as support, 39 wards in 9 games when not support. That's over 4 wards per game which imo is still a bit low tbh. I must have been neglecting my warding recently.


On the bright side, I see you have taken Flash instead of Ghost. Good job!
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
10,298
13,450
You keep mentioning how it's not impossible to come back from 0/3, or even an 0/6 combined like that. What you aren't calculating in to the equation is the fact that most of the time (at least in bronze) these players end up 0/3 not because of close calls/etc but because there is usually a massive skill difference in the lane or some form of assistance for the lane.

You mention wards in that game. I was destroying aatrox top early, once he got botrk and level 7-8 it got a bit harder to stop his sustain and we both ended up just farming basically. I only got ganked top once and I saw it coming and got away before I died but I can't stay top and just farm against aatrox all game when my team is losing literally everywhere else and the enemy team is pushing those lanes to our inhib turrets. Not easy to push a tower against an aatrox btw unless maybe you have someone who pushes real hard.

As far as wards in general, i'm assuming those ward purchases don't count wards from sightstones? Also, one of those games as support I had to switch to trying to carry after about 15 minutes like I said in my previous post (the fiddlesticks 20 kills game that I lost 4v5) to have any chance at winning. Sometimes when i'm not support I end up with really nice supports who constantly have the map warded and there's no need for me to buy wards. I'm not one of the idiots who do pointless shit to try and pad stats (hai2u spam buying wards and dropping them around nexus, hai2u spamming around in sc2 early game to try and inflate your "APM" stat, etc.).

On the bright side, you're probably in the same game as Vimeseh etc. where you see a troll/feeder/absolutely terrible player once every 50 games. Must be nice.

Edit: Oh and the only reason I mentioned the megatron cloaks is because Annie was the only one on their team who posed a threat to me for the duration of the game and she could kill me from full to dead before I could use a single move for most of the game due to how fed she got. Only thing I could have done to slow her down was to ignore aatrox and let him freefarm into superman himself by completely ignoring him top lane. I WAS roaming/trying to help out other lanes that entire game.
 

Thengel

Golden Knight of the Realm
673
32
I thought you were buying 12 negatron cloaks because you were getting ganked by Annie who has 48 kills and a full build at 6:40? Now she only came once, and you escaped because you saw her coming? With no wards? Man, I can't even keep up.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,809
87,035
Sure, players that are really good or even decently good can claw their way out of the lower ranks. The way I've always seen the Bronze 5 problem is that for players whose skill level is low it is very hard for them to learn good lessons from the games they play and become better players. Low rated games are incredibly fucking random. Massive throws are common. The morale of a player that is behind can break over almost anything. Attitudes are poor and people mentally quit out of completely winnable games.

This is not an environment that fosters improvement.
 

lindz

#DDs
1,202
69
Yay made it back to Silver. Took me 22 games to get from Bronze 3 to Silver 5 with just 6 losses. 4 of those losses during my promos from Bronze 1 to Silver (isn't that always the way). My MMR is significantly higher than my actual ELO so I've been getting gains of 25-30 for each win. Did it focusing on Eve and Graves, with Eve in the jungle for most games. I've found that in the jungle what has been most successful for me is an aggressive counter jungling strategy. I ward their buffs aggresively, make sure I always have the timers so I can have my team at their buff when it spawns and overall just making their jungler incredibly ineffective.

As far as champ select I always tell my team "jungle or adc pref" and only twice did I have to play a different role in those 22 games. 1 support game and 1 mid, which I am totally comfortable with. My support pool is fine, I feel comfortable on most of them and I am an Eve "main" so I can always mid her well. My bits of advice for those of us at this elo range is pick two roles and 2-3 champs, try to have at least 1 of those champs be able to play multiple roles, don't just focus on the solo lanes and don't pick champs that are always banned. Lead the team positively, ward well, don't rage, focus objectives, try to not go on tilt during promos (I lost 3 Eve games in a row tryharding during my first promo to Silver) and take one for the team and play support without complaint if you need to. I think attitude and correct focus on objectives wins more games at that ELO than good mechanical play because throws are CONSTANTLY happening.

My breakdown for those games was
Graves 9-2
Eve 5-3
Nasus 1-0
Zac 0-1
Fiddle (support) 1-0

Yeah it is just Silver, but still feels good to get out of bronze. Finally!
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,417
53,864
You keep mentioning how it's not impossible to come back from 0/3, or even an 0/6 combined like that. What you aren't calculating in to the equation is the fact that most of the time (at least in bronze) these players end up 0/3 not because of close calls/etc but because there is usually a massive skill difference in the lane or some form of assistance for the lane.

You mention wards in that game. I was destroying aatrox top early, once he got botrk and level 7-8 it got a bit harder to stop his sustain and we both ended up just farming basically. I only got ganked top once and I saw it coming and got away before I died but I can't stay top and just farm against aatrox all game when my team is losing literally everywhere else and the enemy team is pushing those lanes to our inhib turrets. Not easy to push a tower against an aatrox btw unless maybe you have someone who pushes real hard.

As far as wards in general, i'm assuming those ward purchases don't count wards from sightstones? Also, one of those games as support I had to switch to trying to carry after about 15 minutes like I said in my previous post (the fiddlesticks 20 kills game that I lost 4v5) to have any chance at winning. Sometimes when i'm not support I end up with really nice supports who constantly have the map warded and there's no need for me to buy wards. I'm not one of the idiots who do pointless shit to try and pad stats (hai2u spam buying wards and dropping them around nexus, hai2u spamming around in sc2 early game to try and inflate your "APM" stat, etc.).

On the bright side, you're probably in the same game as Vimeseh etc. where you see a troll/feeder/absolutely terrible player once every 50 games. Must be nice.

Edit: Oh and the only reason I mentioned the megatron cloaks is because Annie was the only one on their team who posed a threat to me for the duration of the game and she could kill me from full to dead before I could use a single move for most of the game due to how fed she got. Only thing I could have done to slow her down was to ignore aatrox and let him freefarm into superman himself by completely ignoring him top lane. I WAS roaming/trying to help out other lanes that entire game.
You belong in bronze.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
10,298
13,450
I thought you were buying 12 negatron cloaks because you were getting ganked by Annie who has 48 kills and a full build at 6:40? Now she only came once, and you escaped because you saw her coming? With no wards? Man, I can't even keep up.
If I said ganking I didn't mean it as being ganked in my lane so much as I meant she was running around the map killing everybody, most of that took place mid and bottom tho where I was trying to help the team and, surprisingly enough, where she was killing me (and my entire team).
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
You keep mentioning .....
1.) If you were destroying Aatrox top then you should never have let him get caught back up at level 7-8... Just because he gains a couple levels doesn't make him OP. I'd like to know your definition of "destroying". It should be that his turret is down and you have 2x his CS and at least a couple kills over him. If simply leveling up closes the gap between you and him then you were never destroying him. Aatrox does have good sustain but he needs to be in melee range to use it, Aatrox can actually do decent vs Yorick because he can use your ghouls to heal back up. However, I still think a good Yorick could outplay Aatrox (I don't really see an advantage to either champ, it is mostly a farm lane). The problem is I doubt you're a good Yorick.

2.) I have seen Elo hell and I believe it exists but my definition may vary slightly than others. I tend to believe the worst place to be is Silver IV & V. This is where you get a real mix of "first-time ranked" players with "super bad" players with "semi-decent" players. It's a real crapshoot. Also, Silver tier teams have duos 99% of the time. Now that I'm Gold I you see Duo teams less frequently... Maybe 75% or so. Duos can really screw with how teams work. I believe mid-Bronze is actually easier than Silver IV & V because at least everyone has settled in. In Season II my Elo got as low as 800 and I managed to climb up to 1550. I remember 800-1k elo being higher skills games then 1k-1300. Then once you get 1300+ you start to get out of "hell". My definition of hell is simply 1k-1300 elo range. The skill levels vary way too greatly, you can't reliably expect teammates & opponents to be a similar skill level then you. In most other Elo ranges you can expect the matchups to be of similar skill.

2A.) Another misconception is that games get easier as you move up the ranks. You seem to think you'll win a ton more games by being Silver or Gold... Do you not expect your enemy to have improved as well? I find it funny that you think you're "stuck" in hell yet you seem to ignore the fact that as you advance your opponents & their teamwork & communication will get much better too. If you can't beat a Bronze level player 1v1 then how do you think you'll fare against Silver & Gold players.

3.) I believe the ward counts do NOT include sightstones, which is another reason I listed stats without being on a support character, however there is another stat that is for "Wards Placed" which does include Sightstone. I used the "wards bought" stat for the above numbers.

4.) Expect to carry every game. If you don't have that mindset then you'll continually blame teammates for being unable to carry you. I go into all my games expecting to have to be the one that will carry the game. It doesn't always happen, but I never expect to get carried - although it's nice when it does happen!

4A.) STORY TIME:

Last night I played Udyr Top lane, expected to go against a Shen, however the enemy team pulled the LCS swap on me and sent their bot lane against me instead. Their Shen went bottom vs our bot lane. I was an Udyr against a Fiddle and Varus. This matchup is fucking retarded for an Udyr. I'm a melee champ and can't do shit vs them, even at my turret its damn near impossible for an Udyr to CS. I was level 3 at 5.5mins into the game. They took my turret quick, my jungler attempted to help but wasn't doing much, we couldn't secure any kills. Obviously I wasn't in a good spot. You would hope that my bot lane was being equally as successful vs their Shen, but they weren't. They were doing 0 damage to the bot turret and Shen was CS'ing just fine. One thing I avoided was dying. I made sure not to feed, I b'd like 2x within the first 5mins. I was taking some jungle camps (wolves/wraiths) and stealing cs from mid when mid was roaming, just trying to get back into the game. My bot lane was sucking ass.

I figured the game was a loss but I tried anyway, I know the power of Udyr, I could split push if necessary. Objectives are key...

I had a TF mid that was doing pretty good and our jungler was Cho Gath whom can get beefy late game. I felt like we would probably lose but it wouldnt be impossible to win... but I was really far behind. There was a key moment around mid lane where I caught Varus out and was able to secure the kill with my team, then managed to keep it rolling and I killed Fiddle and the enemy Morgana. All of a sudden I had 3 kills under my belt. It wasn't enough yet but it helped. The game dragged on.

We eventually lost 2 inhibitors. We had some team fights that we barely lost. The enemy gained Baron at one point. But I was Udyr and I had to carry, somehow. I split pushed top lane, a couple times, forcing them to split their forces, we managed to catch some of them out and somehow we held out long enough where we finally Aced them with 3 of us remaining and we pushed for a win.

The game ended with the following (42 minute game):

My team:
Top-Udyr-(me): 7/7/11 -- 13.5k -- 166CS -- 9wards
Jungle-Cho Gath: 3/7/14 -- 12.1k -- 142CS -- 0wards
Mid-Twisted Fate: 14/4/11 -- 17k -- 224CS -- 6wards
ADC-Vayne: 3/6/9 -- 14.7k -- 285CS -- 0wards
Support-Blitzcrank: 3/3/10 -- 10.7k -- 26CS -- 20wards (no SS)
30/27/55 -- 68k -- 35wards

Their team:
Top-Shen: 5/4/12 -- 12.7k -- 185CS -- 9wards (22placed / had SS)
Jungle-Zac: 5/6/8 -- 12k -- 153CS -- 0ward
Mid-Morgana: 11/3/10 -- 15.5k -- 220CS --4wards
ADC-Varus: 4/7/4 -- 12.3k -- 207CS -- 0wards
Support-Fiddlesticks: 2/10/13 -- 9.9k -- 83CS -- 5wards
27/30/47 -- 62.4k -- 18 bought (31 placed) wards


As you can see, I actually had the 2nd highest kills and 2nd highest kill participation on my team and this is AFTER being completely shut down for the first ~15+mins of the game due to the "LCS" start by the opponent. My bot lane was shit. We went to late game and Vayne still couldn't carry which is usually likely to happen if you go to late game with a vayne, just a bad vayne in general. Our Blitz was ok though - he actually had the same amount of kills and a higher kill participation then our ADC... Of course TF was the "carry", thankfully, but Morgana was doing some serious work for the other team, too, so in actuality the mids were about equal and no real advantage there.

Reason why I bring this game up is because I was actually pissed off and raged during it. I was raging at our bot lane for being stubborn and not wanting to swap lanes, yet they couldn't even handle a 2v1 lane vs a low-damage shen. We should have lost. Somehow we drug it out and I always bring a no-quit attitude and try to put games on MY shoulders. Yes, the TF was our best player, but I had to climb out from a VERY steep hole and still had 2nd best Kills/Kill Participation. Even though I was raging a bit and we had team drama, I don't just sit there expecting my team to figure shit out, I try to find ways to contribute and win. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Yes, if we lost I would have been angry and likely blamed my bot lane for the loss, but we won, and this is one of those games that SHOULD have been a loss but somehow pulled out a win.

If you are a good player you will figure out how to pull out wins too.