Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

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Jive Turkey

Karen
6,740
9,159
You need to abandon the pursuit of solutions or answers. Accept that we will never know.

Once you've accepted that...Move on to figuring out if the system worked and how it can be addressed.
Because we couldn't possibly address more than one thing at the same time. The pseudo-intellectual posturing in this thread is hilarious. I'm still waiting to read that 'important' conversation I've been hearing so much about. And also what any of you are personally planning to do about it, since that was also high on the pompous list of reasons for not discussing guilt or innocence.

Let's say a similar situation played out in a different case, but this time, the man on trial was declared not guilty on the basis of blatantly planted evidence alone. Would you not be concerned with finding out whether or not a person guilty of murder was set free due to police incompetence? Would you brush off any talk of an apparent murderer getting off scot-free because "that's not what the documentary was about"?
Let's not pretend the series of events leading up to Halbach's murder aren't important or don't deserve discussion. And it shouldn't boggle your minds that our personal, non-legally binding threshold for questioning a person's guilt or innocence isn't as high as a court that has been handed the responsibility of determining whether a person should be locked away for the rest of his or her life.
 

Sylas

<Gold Donor>
3,824
4,367
Looking at all the data outside the documentary, almost all of the "evidence" against Avery is complete bullshit, and almost all of the "evidence" for Avery is even more damning of the Manitowoc sheriff's dept than was already presented in the documentary.

but honestly not sure why this thread is still even active, here's the final word 9 pages ago:

Shamelessly copied from Reddit.

For everyone that thinks, "Who cares, he got what he had coming", please consider this.
It's easy and common for the police to bend the rules, for Judges to let rulings slide and for appellate courts to not make proper decisions when they think a horrible person did a heinous crime. After all, who wants to be the person to put a rapist and a murderer back on the streets? In Wisconsin these are mostly elected positions so your reputation and livelihood is at risk.
However, Here is just some of the damage that has already been done.
Many of the court's rulings either pushed the limits of the law or broke it completely. Many of the court errors made in Steven's case were classified as "Harmless Errors" by the appellate courts thereby making these "errors" now a precedent.
So now when these (illegal) errors happen again in the future a prosecutor can say that it wall allowed in the precedent setting case of State of Wisconsin vs. Steven A. Avery.
If you watch Making a Murderer, you saw numerous "Firsts" in this case. Well, now these "Firsts" are going to be allowed in other cases. maybe one you are involved in.
For instance..
(1) Contaminated DNA is now admissible in court. That's right, for the "first time" a knowingly contaminated piece of DNA evidence was allowed to convict a defendant, and it was upheld by the appellate courts.
(2) The right to claim "ineffective counsel" is now gone in Wisconsin. In order to claim ineffective counsel (basically malpractice caused you to lose), a defendant must "prove both deficient performance and prejudice". I don't know how an appellate court can rule that Len Kachinsky wasn't both deficient in his performance and prejudice. I mean the man went on TV and said his client was guilty even before talking to his client. It will be much harder to prove in future cases that a person had a bad lawyer that acted against him when the bar is now set so low.
(3) There was ex-parte communications between the Judge and a juror. The appellate courts ruled this a harmless error which now opens the door to all sorts of Jury tampering that can be called "harmless error".
(4) The police broke the "one warrant, one search" rule. This means the police are allowed to search one piece of property one time with one warrant. The police searched the Avery's property for 8 days and entered Steve Avery's trailer multiple times not to continue a search but to start a new search which was in violation of the law. The appellate courts again ruled that this was allowed thereby degrading unreasonable search and seizure laws.
(5) And (this one get's complex) the judge erroneously applied the Denny Standard to Avery's case. This meant that the only testimony and evidence allowed could not point to a third party, it could only point to Steven or Brendan, unless a pre-trial motion allowed it 30 days before the trial. The appellate court upheld this and it's basically unconstitutional because it puts the burden of proof onto the defendant. Don't be surprised if a case with the Wisconsin Denny Standard eventually goes to the US Supreme Court.
Here's where applying the Denny Standard really hurt Steven's case.
Bill Newhouse, an analyst with the State Crime Lab testified that the bullet found with Teresa's DNA came from a Marlin Model 60 .22 rifle. And Steven owned this exact rifle. Newhouse testified he could only identify the make and model of the rifle and could not specifically say it was Steven's rifle.
However, Brendan's Brother (Bobby) also owned a Marlin Model 60 .22 rifle. But because of the Denny Standard, the defense was not allowed to talk about Bobby's rifle because that would imply that Bobby could be involved in Teresa's murder and that would violate the Third Party Evidence Rule known as the Denny Standard.
Therefore the jury was lead to believe that the bullet had to have come Steven's gun because (as far as they were told) it was the only explanation.
There were many pieces of evidence and testimony that the defense could not explore. For instance they could not ask Teresa's Ex questions that might exonerate Steven because it may incriminate someone else. For instance, in Wisconsin 80% of all murders are done by current or former romantic partners (spouses, boyfriends, exes, etc.) yet they could not ask him "Where were you when she was last seen". Part of this was because the police never asked him.
The people of Wisconsin lost a lot of their legal rights all in an effort to put Steven Avery away at all costs. It's going to come back and hurt a lot of innocent people in the future.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
73,147
214,433
Because we couldn't possibly address more than one thing at the same time. The pseudo-intellectual posturing in this thread is hilarious. I'm still waiting to read that 'important' conversation I've been hearing so much about. And also what any of you are personally planning to do about it, since that was also high on the pompous list of reasons for not discussing guilt or innocence.

Let's say a similar situation played out in a different case, but this time, the man on trial was declared not guilty on the basis of blatantly planted evidence alone. Would you not be concerned with finding out whether or not a person guilty of murder was set free due to police incompetence? Would you brush off any talk of an apparent murderer getting off scot-free because "that's not what the documentary was about"?
Let's not pretend the series of events leading up to Halbach's murder aren't important or don't deserve discussion. And it shouldn't boggle your minds that our personal, non-legally binding threshold for questioning a person's guilt or innocence isn't as high as a court that has been handed the responsibility of determining whether a person should be locked away for the rest of his or her life.
the series of events leading up to her murder are either conjecture based off of secondhand testimony or outright bullshit. the timeline of events are also severely skewed because the investigation was focused on SA even before TH's car was ever found. we really have no idea about what relation the ex bf, bobby dassey or the stepfather plays in all this. bobby D and the stepdad mis-remembered or blatantly lied under oath about their alibis thanks to the bus driver testimony. and she was never approached by the prosecution.
 

Greyform

Bronze Knight of the Realm
431
17
Man this show was amazing, I cannot remember the last time watching a show ran me through such an emotional roller coaster.
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
3,389
141
Looking at all the data outside the documentary, almost all of the "evidence" against Avery is complete bullshit, and almost all of the "evidence" for Avery is even more damning of the Manitowoc sheriff's dept than was already presented in the documentary.

but honestly not sure why this thread is still even active, here's the final word 9 pages ago:
Maybe we could appoint you to determine once a thread has run its course and then we'll have it locked once that time come. Heaven forbid people talk about something on an online message board.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,377
16,298
Yeah just gonna lock the thread. Didn't realize the discussion ended 9 pages ago. Wrap it up.

Finally finished this. What DO they feed these guys in prison? Lmao. I burst out laughing when I saw dassey
 

Brand

Molten Core Raider
1,159
313
I was giving this some more thought...

I've always felt that BD is innocent, but I wasn't sure about SA.

However, if BD is innocent then SA is alibi'd by BD...Making SA innocent and framed by the police.

Ughh
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
Maybe halfway through this. It is entertaining but I'm not sure it is exactly objective. It struck me on the last episode I watched where things went the way of the defense and their windfall amounted to just some textual slides that amassed 30 seconds of air time. Anytime something goes bad and the big bad judge rules against the defense they spend 15 minutes building up the hype on why this is the most obvious thing ever and why would the judge ever not rule against it. Its entertaining but I'm taking it completely at face value.

Also the entire town seems like they are actually and completely retarded. Like not internet "lol ur retarded" like I think they all have mental disabilities.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Well this took more than 10 years to put together, if we wanted to wait we may have gotten it.
 

Sylas

<Gold Donor>
3,824
4,367
Maybe we could appoint you to determine once a thread has run its course and then we'll have it locked once that time come. Heaven forbid people talk about something on an online message board.
Funny enough but yeah, we should. Since every time a new person comes to the thread they don't bother reading anything posted so far, so people like you come in and are like "oh I think i have a unique perspective on this, did you see all this other evidence NOT SHOWN YET? OMG GUILTY" and then we have to be all like "dude did you even read the thread? every single thing you posted has already been debunked, on page 17, and page 23, and page 29 from the last 3 faggots that showed up and started posting their clever insights without bothering to read the thread."

lather, rinse, repeat ad nauseum
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
3,389
141
Funny enough but yeah, we should. Since every time a new person comes to the thread they don't bother reading anything posted so far, so people like you come in and are like "oh I think i have a unique perspective on this, did you see all this other evidence NOT SHOWN YET? OMG GUILTY" and then we have to be all like "dude did you even read the thread? every single thing you posted has already been debunked, on page 17, and page 23, and page 29 from the last 3 faggots that showed up and started posting their clever insights without bothering to read the thread."

lather, rinse, repeat ad nauseum
Please let me know when I break the forum rules again and I'll be sure to stop.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
What really bothered me about the ex boyfriend were his answers on the stand. A lot of "I don't know", "I don't remembrr", "maybe she was at the house at some time I can't remember" . I don't know if they ever really investigated him but the way he was answering questions was so goddamn weird to me.

The brother seemed off, but I didn't feel like he was the guy who did it. But then again, there are the feels.
My guess is the defense got the cell phone history of the person who was supposedly calling her a lot, and didn't like the results so they never continued down that road.

There is definitely a lot of suspicious shit.

The room mate never reported she was missing for awhile even tho she didn't come home for days, and her professor saying he was in her company when she ignored a call that she said was coming from someone that was bothering her..
 

Sylas

<Gold Donor>
3,824
4,367
My guess is the defense got the cell phone history of the person who was supposedly calling her a lot, and didn't like the results so they never continued down that road.

There is definitely a lot of suspicious shit.

The room mate never reported she was missing for awhile even tho she didn't come home for days, and her professor saying he was in her company when she ignored a call that she said was coming from someone that was bothering her..
The defense does not perform the investigation, the police do. Also the defense was not allowed to bring up anything pointing to a 3rd party.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,740
9,159
at least some of that was in the documentary. all fantasy. even the cops coercing him thought he went too far.
And yet it lines up with the cousin's concerns to her counselor about being afraid of going into the garage and asking about blood coming up from the concrete. Concerns that were freely offered to the counselor, independent of any investigators. Yet you guys are content to just believe the cousin "made it up". ok.