Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

Jive Turkey_sl said:

And yet it lines up with the cousin's concerns to her counselor about being afraid of going into the garage and asking about blood coming up from the concrete. Concerns that were freely offered to the counselor, independent of any investigators. Yet you guys are content to just believe the cousin "made it up". ok.

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are you referring to the garage that they scoured every inch of, even going so far as to break up the concrete floor in the chance that some dna might have seeped in the cracks and still found zilch? well cept when the mantowiac cops stopped by 6 months later and found a bullet in plain view that had tainted dna from TH? that garage? yeah dude its called fantasy, nothing fits in because all of it this kid pulled directly from his ass and none of the science matches any of his "confessions". yet it somehow lines up? please explain.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

are you referring to the garage that they scoured every inch of, even going so far as to break up the concrete floor in the chance that some dna might have seeped in the cracks and still found zilch? well cept when the mantowiac cops stopped by 6 months later and found a bullet in plain view that had tainted dna from TH? that garage? yeah dude its called fantasy, nothing fits in because all of it this kid pulled directly from his ass and none of the science matches any of his "confessions". yet it somehow lines up? please explain.

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The same garage that Dassey's own mother said he helped clean with bleach and came home with bleach stains on his pants? Ya, that's the garage. The only fantasy here is the Tarantino bloodbath you guys are imagining, then using that as 'science' to explain that it couldn't have been cleaned up

Jive Turkey_sl said:

The same garage that Dassey's own mother said he helped clean with bleach and came home with bleach stains on his pants? Ya, that's the garage. The only fantasy is the Tarantino bloodbath you guys are imagining, then using that as 'science' to explain that it couldn't have been cleaned up

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what? when did brendan's mother say he was at the garage cleaning things with bleach? cuz the mother said on the phone that brendan was home playing playstation with his friend and there was no way that he could have gone over there for any length of time. the bus driver brought brendan home and knows the time. so the mom and bus driver have brendan's timeline all sewn up. and forget all that where was the blood or DNA on avery's bed? how do you murder anyone in a garage jampacked full of items and leave 0 evidence? christ dude, both these guys are rocking a low 70s IQ, which one is the genius in destroying microscopic bits of DNA and was he taking the day off when TH's remains was dumped 10 feet behind the house or when the rav4 was left at the edge of the property poorly hidden?

Maester Chuk_sl said:

what? when did brendan's mother say he was at the garage cleaning things with bleach? cuz the mother said on the phone that brendan was home playing playstation with his friend and there was no way that he could have gone over there for any length of time. the bus driver brought brendan home and knows the time. so the mom and bus driver have brendan's timeline all sewn up. and forget all that where was the blood or DNA on avery's bed? how do you murder anyone in a garage jampacked full of items and leave 0 evidence? christ dude, both these guys are rocking a low 70s IQ, which one is the genius in destroying microscopic bits of DNA and was he taking the day off when TH's remains was dumped 10 feet behind the house or when the rav4 was left at the edge of the property poorly hidden?

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I'm not posting the bleach thing for the third time. Go find it. If you think all of these stories that have elements that match were made up independently, then you're not trying hard enough (or are you trying too hard?). Blood on the bed? From what?
And bleaching a garage floor isn't that difficult. First, you don't need to destroy "microscopic bits of dna" to begin with. You guys seem to think the forensics guys walk in with a batman dna scanner and let it pan around the room collecting dna samples from every square inch of every surface. For all we know, there could be a microscopic piece of her DNA still in the garage. But for that to be tested, someone first needs to collect it. They don't just take one million cotton swabs and rub down the entire area.
So lets say she was killed on the garage floor. Maybe there's blood stains on 6 square feet of floor space. You could clean that with one bottle of bleach. This isn't master criminal level behaviour. Stop watching CSI

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/de...bleaching.html

Jive Turkey_sl said:

I'm not posting the bleach thing for the third time. Go find it. If you think all of these stories that have elements that match were made up independently, then you're not trying hard enough (or are you trying too hard?). Blood on the bed? From what?
And bleaching a garage floor isn't that difficult. First, you don't need to destroy "microscopic bits of dna" to begin with. You guys seem to think the forensics guys walk in with a batman dna scanner and let it pan around the room collecting dna samples from every square in of every surface. For all we know, there could be a microscopic piece of her DNA still in the garage. But for that to be tested, someone first needs to collect it. They don't just take one million cotton swabs and rub down the entire area.
So lets say she was killed on the garage floor. Maybe there's blood stains on 6 square feet of floor space. You could clean that with one bottle of bleach. This isn't master criminal level behaviour. Stop watching CSI

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/de...bleaching.html

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oh so that line about the bleach wasnt in the doc. thought i was going crazy cuz that doesnt jibe with anything. and when you shoot someone or cut their throat, blood doesnt just leak down into a little patch of concrete. that shit gets everywhere. i guess most people have never processed an animal like a deer or pig so maybe you would think blood works that way, it doesnt. and yes every inch of that garage was searched. they didnt find anything. brandon's story is complete garbage, you cant pick and choose what part "lines up" and ignore the million other things that dont make any sense at all.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

So lets say she was killed on the garage floor. Maybe there's blood stains on 6 square feet of floor space. You could clean that with one bottle of bleach.

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If they had used chlorine bleach then evidence of blood still would have shown in the garage. If they used Oxygen bleach it would have cleaned the evidence of blood but then the kid wouldn't have stains on his pants. But perhaps your brilliant theory is true that he wrapped her in a blanket before stabbing and/or strangling and/or shooting her and the magic blanket is what kept blood from going everywhere. Ah, but if there wasn't blood everywhere then what was the point of cleaning up with either type of bleach?

Sylas_sl said:

The defense does not perform the investigation, the police do. Also the defense was not allowed to bring up anything pointing to a 3rd party.

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The defense can request cell phone records as we plainly saw in the court footage. Also we can clearly see the Defense investigating outside of what the detectives gave them all through the whole series.

Bringing the professor to the stand was clearly pointing at an outside party.

Either way you missed the point of that post anyway. It was a possible explanation of why the lawyers didn't push the point of investigating why the detectives didn't follow up more outside of Steven.

I'm not convinced Avery is smart enough to murder someone without leaving a ton of concrete proof in his wake

Cad_sl said:

There were numerous other bloodstains in the garage that turned out to be animal blood right? How did they meticulously clean TH's murder scene but leave all the rest?

Also if he shot her 5 times with a rifle and stabbed her twice wouldn't there be blood everywhere? Those aren't precision instruments.

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There could've been animal blood stains on areas of the floor they didn't clean.
If they stabbed her in the chest and stomach, it would be messy, but not blood-spraying-everywhere messy. And ya, gunshots are a lot messier than even the stabbing would be, but most of the mess comes from the exit wound. If she was lying on the floor, lot of that would just end up on the ground behind her. Simply throwing an article of clothing over her head before shooting her would eliminate a lot of the splattering too (like hammering a lid back on a paint can). Did they do all that? I have no idea. I'm just pointing out that it didn't have to be as much of a blood bath and it seems some people are imagining.

I will say 5 shots with a rifle seems pretty fucking excessive though. That seems a bit off

It's more that these three stories have elements that seem to fit together that I find most interesting though.
You've got Dassey saying she was killed on the garage floor
You've got his mother saying he helped clean the floor with bleach
and you've got his cousin asking about blood coming up from concrete and being afraid to go in the garage

If it's all a coincidence, it's a pretty remarkable one

Maester Chuk_sl said:

and yes every inch of that garage was searched. they didnt find anything.

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Every inch wassearchedbut they didn't take a swab from every inch. Unless there's visual evidence of blood, they're not going to just process thousands of swabs from every inch of the garage

Cad_sl said:

What was actually left of TH's skeleton to determine cause of death? Was there anything? Could they forensically verify she was shot at all? I never hear anything of what was actually left of TH.

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Ya, there were skull fragments that they were able to determine had breakage similar to a gunshot wound. And when they took x-rays of those parts, they had 'speckling' that the xray couldn't penetrate, that's also generally caused from a close-range gunshot

popsicledeath_sl said:

Ah, but if there wasn't blood everywhere then what was the point of cleaning up with either type of bleach?

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Now, popsicledeath, do you promise to be a big boy and discuss things in a civil manner from here on out? If you notice, Uncle Jive didn't change your name to that mean one you don't like.


Just because there's not bloodeverywheredoesn't mean there wasn't blood on the floor. Throwing something over her head first would just limit the splatter. Or maybe he didn't even need to do that since she was lying down and most of the blood ended up directly behind her.
I can post a liveleak video of someone getting shot in the head with an assault rifle for reference, but I don't think anyone wants to see that (nor do I)

Did the prosecution ever tackle why there was bloody hair in the RAV4 when the site they claimed the murder occurred and the burning occurred was like 15 feet apart?

Bleach that stains pants wouldn't hide evidence of blood and if they used chlorine bleach they could show that the area was cleaned which is more damning evidence than taking a jackhammer to the garage and finding none of the victim's DNA or evidence of a crime scene at all and having to plant a bullet with her DNA on it but not evidence of her blood.

I'd also like to know who was alerted to the bleach stained pants. Did this officer take the stand? Did this officer implicate who this information came from? Was that person called to the stand to provide evidence this happened and when? What were the results of the tests they ran on the stained pants to determine a source of the staining? Did those match accounts and tests from the evidence the garage was cleaned with similar chemicals?

Several time we see Brendan seemingly admit to things that in retrospect were most likely fed to him and reinforced several times including by people he trusted like his own defense team. Are we really able to trust things Brendan said on his own in a phone call? I mean, we saw him say things in phone calls to his mom that he denied other times, and then claimed something else in one confession, then claimed he didn't do it, then was told he did do it, and then testified he didn't, which was also part lies because I think we all know he didn't read a book much less comprehend it enough to remember details of a whole scene. Can anything he say be trusted or relied upon without a lot of corroborating evidence?

The cousin... has any of you ever known a teenage girl to NOT lie all the fucking time for attention and then when questioned continue lying to save themselves or even just to keep getting someone in trouble? Maybe a bit harsh, but to me the most believable thing she said was that the story was in the news and people were talking shit at school and she was making up shit for attention.

So, what we have is the mother implicating the son and for some reason that's never really brought back up in the trial. Fucking Fassbender changes his 'the mom told me' story from earlier to something vague like it was brought to my attention. They have a pair of pants they collected how many months later that are allegedly the ones Brendan wore that night, because again, Fassbender says that's what someone who they aren't mentioning on the stand, or calling to the stand, or deposing, said so. And you have one kid very clearly coerced into multiple conflicting confessions who is a retarded and doesn't know what he believes anymore trying to tell everyone anything at all to make them happy. And you have another kid that we can't find a timeline to prove she was telling anyone details that weren't already in the news and being gossiped about saying things that whether true or false were to get her cousin in trouble at school that she later says were made up.

And in the end we're back to no concrete evidence, even from the concrete they jackhammered up. Having to rely on the testimony of what sure seem to be corrupt investigators who sure seem to have a knack for getting information and confessions from kids that can't be backed up with much actual evidence. And more tainting of public opinion and the jury pool and potential witnesses by a prosecution that can't keep their fucking mouths shut and not spread every tall tail they hear that seems able to do little more than fabricate leads and suspects by their press conferences.

More clickbait bullshit housewives and fucking morons on the internet will run with to confirm the thing they're pretty sure they know despite being ignorant fucks. I guess it's funny until it's your jury of "peers" they're sitting on.

Cad_sl said:

but the story we're being presented thus far is just BS.

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To be honest, there are so many different scenarios from both Dassey and the prosecution as the investigation went on that I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of it is complete bullshit... or 100%.

It did seem like the only consistent story Brenden said was the "I got home. I played Playstation. I watched TV. I went to the bonfire." The other ones kept changing. But again we were spoon fed stuff by the makers of the documentary so its hard to say.

Tenks_sl said:

Did the prosecution ever tackle why there was bloody hair in the RAV4 when the site they claimed the murder occurred and the burning occurred was like 15 feet apart?

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Not that we were shown. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think if the vehicle was close to the garage, they threw her in instead of dragging her to the fire pit, then continued up to where it was parked. But that was never really discussed, so I have no clue