Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

chaos · Jan 20, 2016

Ambiturner_sl said:
It's more likely that there was just 1 or 2 people actually in on it, and they didn't have a big elaborate story planned out. They just figured if there were a few pieces of evidence pointing at SA, that would be enough. They never actually stopped to think that what they were doing didn't actually make a lot of sense in the big picture.

The whole setup idea doesn't make sense to me. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just doesn't make any sense. Imagine being a cop who has years of service, looking to retirement relatively soon, you're not working West B-more or anything so it isn't like you're rolling out in SWAT gear every night and risking your life. And you just decide, out of the fucking blue, to participate in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man? You just decide that a killer can go free and you'll get these retards locked up instead?

What's going through your head as you're planting the key in his room, or swabbing blood onto the car? Or planting the car itself? When you talk to your wife about your day at work, what do you say? When your family sees the documentary and sees you stuttering like a moron on the stand when you try and explain how you didn't actually find the car 3 days before it was found, how do you address their questions?

Cad · Jan 20, 2016

chaos_sl said:
The whole setup idea doesn't make sense to me. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just doesn't make any sense. Imagine being a cop who has years of service, looking to retirement relatively soon, you're not working West B-more or anything so it isn't like you're rolling out in SWAT gear every night and risking your life. And you just decide, out of the fucking blue, to participate in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man? You just decide that a killer can go free and you'll get these retards locked up instead?

What's going through your head as you're planting the key in his room, or swabbing blood onto the car? Or planting the car itself? When you talk to your wife about your day at work, what do you say? When your family sees the documentary and sees you stuttering like a moron on the stand when you try and explain how you didn't actually find the car 3 days before it was found, how do you address their questions?

He's a bad guy, if he didn't do this he did something else, I'm doing the community a favor. Fucking lawyers always get bad guys off. I'm gonna make sure he doesn't get off this time. I'm protecting my community from scum like this.

Cyni · Jan 20, 2016

Also , my boss/department is being charged in a lawsuit and will owe millions to this scum if I don't put him away. Boss told me to do this to make sure our department doesn't suffer any more embarrassment over this white trash rapist/murderer.

Ambiturner · Jan 20, 2016

chaos_sl said:
The whole setup idea doesn't make sense to me. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just doesn't make any sense. Imagine being a cop who has years of service, looking to retirement relatively soon, you're not working West B-more or anything so it isn't like you're rolling out in SWAT gear every night and risking your life. And you just decide, out of the fucking blue, to participate in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man? You just decide that a killer can go free and you'll get these retards locked up instead?

What's going through your head as you're planting the key in his room, or swabbing blood onto the car? Or planting the car itself? When you talk to your wife about your day at work, what do you say? When your family sees the documentary and sees you stuttering like a moron on the stand when you try and explain how you didn't actually find the car 3 days before it was found, how do you address their questions?

You're putting way more thought into it than they did. It's more like "This fucker is making me/us look retarded. Fuck this guy, I'm sure he did it anyway".

They even had the one officer who still didn't believe Avery was innocent of the initial rape conviction he was cleared of.

Noodleface · Jan 20, 2016

Ambiturner_sl said:
You're putting way more thought into it than they did. It's more like "This fucker is making me/us look retarded. Fuck this guy, I'm sure he did it anyway".

They even had the one officer who still didn't believe Avery was innocent of the initial rape conviction he was cleared of.

Are you talking about the fat fuck that framed his work of art sketch? That guy was a piece of work..

Are individual officers on the hook for monetary payment if the lawsuit goes through or is it just the county? I can't imagine anyone in their right mind having that much pride in their work that they'd risk jail time over it. Then again, I'm no cop, who knows.

There's also the thought that they potentially thought what they did would simply go unnnoticed and the trial would be really quick.

Khane · Jan 20, 2016

What? He's bad for my community? He's making me look bad?

Are you kidding me? Why would they frame him?

Because they already sent him away for 18 years for a crime he didn't commit and he's about to blow the lid off that thing. I'm not gonna lose my pension nor am I gonna lose my reputation in this very small town where everyone knows everyone. I'll lose literally everything I've ever known if the truth comes out and people realize how badly we fucked him over 18 years ago. This piece of shit isn't stealing my life from me. I'm going to steal his instead.

That's what was going through their heads, and it's a very powerful motive. You kidding me with "It makes no sense why they would do this"? Really?

chaos · Jan 20, 2016

Yeah man, doesn't make sense to me. I don't think they have evidence like you think of the rape investigation, and the victim IDed him. There is a vast fucking gulf between that and straight up framing an innocent man for murder and the risk that goes along with that. Not to mention,, some people even think the cops may have killed her. Things have to be pretty fucking bad before you get to this point from upstanding citizen police officer to possible murderer, definite sociopath.

Unless the argument is like Cad said and they were just always shitbags.

Ambiturner · Jan 20, 2016

Noodlemod_sl said:
Are you talking about the fat fuck that framed his work of art sketch? That guy was a piece of work..

Are individual officers on the hook for monetary payment if the lawsuit goes through or is it just the county? I can't imagine anyone in their right mind having that much pride in their work that they'd risk jail time over it. Then again, I'm no cop, who knows.

There's also the thought that they potentially thought what they did would simply go unnnoticed and the trial would be really quick.

Not just the sketch artist, but the arresting officer/sheriff Kenneth Peterson refuses to believe he's not guilty of the rape he was cleared of.

When he was on the stand during the trial he actually said that. It's the same guy who said they could have just killed him if they wanted.

chaos · Jan 20, 2016

The prosecutor said the same thing during one of the press conferences.

Khane · Jan 20, 2016

chaos_sl said:
Yeah man, doesn't make sense to me. I don't think they have evidence like you think of the rape investigation, and the victim IDed him. There is a vast fucking gulf between that and straight up framing an innocent man for murder and the risk that goes along with that. Not to mention,, some people even think the cops may have killed her. Things have to be pretty fucking bad before you get to this point from upstanding citizen police officer to possible murderer, definite sociopath.

Unless the argument is like Cad said and they were just always shitbags.

A man protecting himself from complete devastation of his entire life doesn't make sense to you? The county, and all of its public officials, had absolutely everything in their lives to lose. Imagine losing your entire future, the respect of everyone you know, and very likely your family. That's what was at stake for them.

And if you think it was just a simple "Oops we screwed up, everyone will surely forgive us", just look at what the public opinion of a fucking innocent man (Steve Avery) was in that shithole of a county.

chaos · Jan 20, 2016

Yeah I don't think the individuals had that at stake, unless there is some evidence that I am just not remembering or something that shows him clearly being set up. They didn't investigate the other guy, well they had a positive ID on their guy. idk, it has been a while since i saw the episode that laid out all of the evidence in the rape case maybe I am just not remembering it correctly.

Khane · Jan 20, 2016

You should rewatch the first few episodes. There was a personal vendetta from within the department because his cousin was married to one of the officers. The cousin who was accusing him of all that lude behavior and the one he ran off the road as a result. They ignored evidence it wasn't him who committed the rape both at the time of original investigation and also in 1995 when a call came in with very good information that he was indeed not the rapist.

His original conviction was not an "Oops". It was just as much of a railroading as this murder conviction. They had everything to lose had the real story come to light.

In fact, according to many in this thread it was actually a far more egregious railroading, since he 100% did not commit that rape.

Oh and by the way chaos. At least 2 other women were brutally raped by the actual rapist while SA was in jail. Get it together Tyrone.

Nester · Jan 20, 2016

I have a trouble buying a government employee is going to murder an innocent women to MAYBE try and keep his employer from being sued.

I do not agree with you that they would "lose everything" they might lose their job, that sure has hell is not everything, no one was going to lose their house, retirement or anything else. This was already national news as far as reputation goes.

Also, Steve going to jail does not guarantee his wrongful impressment case ends. The facts about that case are all about 1985. 2005 and forward should not be relevant in the .

I think one of Steve's biggest mistakes was settling for the $400k I see how he felt he had had no choice, but if you can get $400k you can get a ton more.

Khane · Jan 20, 2016

Nester_sl said:
I have a trouble buying a government employee is going to murder an innocent women to MAYBE try and keep his employer from being sued.

I do not agree with you that they would "lose everything" they might lose their job, that sure has hell is not everything, no one was going to lose their house, retirement or anything else. This was already national news as far as reputation goes.

Also, Steve going to jail does not guarantee his wrongful impressment case ends. The facts about that case are all about 1985. 2005 and forward should not be relevant in the .

I think one of Steve's biggest mistakes was settling for the $400k I see how he felt he had had no choice, but if you can get $400k you can get a ton more.

Foolish. They are government employees. They lose respect in their community which is bad enough in small town America but they also lose their pensions and their future. They'd be lucky to find jobs at a Wal-Mart in the place they've spent their whole life.

Also, who said they murdered Theresa? I've never alluded to that. In fact I've stated I don't believe they did, but rather saw an opportunity to save their reputation.

The DA was fervent to the point of zealotry when denouncing the defense for calling their reputation into question, yet you seem to think it's no big deal.

Also, what the fuck are you talking about when referring to the settlement? He had no choice, which was the point of him being setup in the first place. Are you really that dense? What the fuck?

Chukzombi · Jan 20, 2016

The likely scenario is somebody not the cops killed TH and the cops discovered her body and decided SA did it because his lawsuit was going to shit up their department. I believe they really think he did kill her or they really didn't care who did it because locking SA up was more important

Ambiturner · Jan 20, 2016

I don't think any rational person thinks the police killed her. Their jobs and pensions would definitely be fucked if SA wins that lawsuit, though. No way that shit hole can afford to pay him and their insurance already said "lol nope".

Kiroy · Jan 20, 2016

Noodlemod_sl said:
Are you talking about the fat fuck that framed his work of art sketch? That guy was a piece of work..

Are individual officers on the hook for monetary payment if the lawsuit goes through or is it just the county? I can't imagine anyone in their right mind having that much pride in their work that they'd risk jail time over it. Then again, I'm no cop, who knows.

There's also the thought that they potentially thought what they did would simply go unnnoticed and the trial would be really quick.

His lawsuit would have bankrupted the city (remember when the show was talking about how insurance point blank told them they wouldn't be covering the payout?). Some of the main folks involved might have gone to jail and systematic corruption issues would be proven true state wide. I think a lot of individuals had a everything to lose. The result for the city after he went back to jail, vs the result if his lawsuit would have continued shows how much was at stake for the entrenched local bureaucrats. I don't have any idea who killed her, but I'd put my money on the set up for sure.

popsicledeath · Jan 20, 2016

Nester_sl said:
I have a trouble buying a government employee is going to murder an innocent women to MAYBE try and keep his employer from being sued.

I do not agree with you that they would "lose everything" they might lose their job, that sure has hell is not everything, no one was going to lose their house, retirement or anything else. This was already national news as far as reputation goes.

Also, Steve going to jail does not guarantee his wrongful impressment case ends. The facts about that case are all about 1985. 2005 and forward should not be relevant in the .

I think one of Steve's biggest mistakes was settling for the $400k I see how he felt he had had no choice, but if you can get $400k you can get a ton more.

If he didn't settle fast he wouldn't have money to defend himself against accusations that even 400k couldn't buy a good enough legal team to overcome. Yet you think he shouldn't have settled? Even in light of the fact that him being accused of Halbach's murder actually DID result in the wrongful imprisonment case ending?

You literally just said the thing that happened wasn't guaranteed to happen despite you having a direct example of it happening because that's what happened. So, yeah, maybe not guaranteed, but it sure seemed like a pretty good plan if that was the plan, since it worked. And they would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those pesky film students!

Won't even comment on the government employee nonsense. Having had 4 different government jobs at 3 different levels of government I can say without a doubt there is a prevailing arrogance and 'policing' complex where people don't think they could ever be the problem, because they're on the good side fixing all the problems.

popsicledeath · Jan 20, 2016

Khane_sl said:
They ignored evidence it wasn't him who committed the rape both at the time of original investigation and also in 1995 when a call came in with very good information that he was indeed not the rapist.

Wasn't it also that Avery was the only person IDed by cops twice, once in the lineup and another time in pictures or something, and later the victim actually said something like she thought they were trying to let her know that they knew Avery was guilty so was sending the message by having him and only him involved in the two different ID methods. (very roughly paraphrased).

Basically, it was shady as fuck, corrupt, and just as criminal as planting evidence and not following through on leads for the murder investigation.

Caal · Jan 21, 2016

Ambiturner_sl said:
I don't think any rational person thinks the police killed her.

I'd argue that might have been the most rational thing the Police did in that entire fucking series.

1) They essentially killed SA once with the rape conviction. Never mind the rapist getting up in them guts with SA in jail.
2) They did it(kill SA) again in 95 when they ignored the tip.
3) Holy fuck, nice investigation guys.

I dunno. I'm just totally unconvinced they're not capable and willing to off TH.

Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

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