Marriage and the Power of Divorce

mkopec · Apr 3, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Mkopec, honest question, why doesn't your wife have a better job? My assumption is complacency and apathy. Neither of which would be tolerated by her if the roles were reversed. So why should I tolerate a woman treating me like a safety net?

She went to school, got her BS degree in some science thing, as she wanted to be an environmental scientist of some kind, but the dental thing is the job she found and made a career out of it because of her circumstances in her past. And this is when I met her. We got married then, like I said, we both decided that she would stay home with the kids while I worked through their younger years. And just about a year ago she decided to go back to work in the field she has experience with and could find a job with her past experience easily. But its not for the money, I make plenty enough for my family, its more for her since both kids are in school full time now, a bit older and mature and she wanted to have a life of her own once again. But dont get me wrong, the extra money she is pulling in does not hurt either. And in the future she will probably work full time, but she does not have to.

Its the choice we both made at her careers expense I guess. If I married a doctor or some exec both our lives would probably be drastically different. We both wanted kids and we both decided that its in their best interest to have a stay at home parent.

And she does take care of stuff. For example she gets up and gets the kids ready for school every day, while I sleep in because of gaming till 2AM every day. (Its a big weakness on my part) Even on the days she works. So there ARE tradeoffs. And there will always be.

Noodleface · Apr 3, 2014

Khane_sl said:
This is what I mean though. Her job may be a pain but it certainly isn't hard. She has to walk and stick mail in people's mailboxes, and deal with the occasional dog (OK, so that really sucks). You sit on reddit/rerolled all day? If that's true you need to apply yourself Noodlebro. Don't get complacent and be one of those 45 year old retards who has never gotten a promotion in his life and complains about how the new guy got an office and he's still stuck in a cubicle. You went to school and made that life for yourself.

I had a 6 month stint where I literally had nothing to do at my last job because projects kept getting shelved. My girlfriend at the time who worked part time as a lifetouch school photographer kept bitching at me when I worked from home and sat in front of the TV all day. "Wow you work really hard, must be tough being you. I wish I could sit around doing nothing all day". My response was very simple. "You could, so go do it. Nothing is stopping you." Shut her up real quick. What is stopping all these women from having the same kinds of fuck off jobs all their husbands supposedly have?

That's the plan, to move up. I should be clear, my job requires X amount of work every day. If I do X amount of work in 2 hours, then that's on me, if it takes me 12 hours then so be it, that's what I signed up for. I may have exaggerated on being on reddit/rerolled all day - but I sit in a lot of conference calls all day where I pop in when required. I always have rerolled open on another monitor because it can be boring as shit. I'm working on improving it though.

As for her job, you say it isn't hard and I say it's hard and has its challenges in its own way. Maybe it's a menial and mundane task, but it requires a certain person (turnover is like 90% of people that are hired end up quitting the first week). The plus side is she'll never be fat working at that job and it gets her off my back about bitching about losing weight every night.

The funny thing is she guilt trips me whenever I want to work at home, just like your story! Actually exactly like that. She will always go "wow, must be nice to be able to work from home while I need to go into the snow." Woman, it's not my goddamn fault you got an english degree and I got an engineering degree. You could be a teacher or something and not have to work a physical job, but you refuse to do that. I always tell her I'm going to change careers to be a garbage man so she can never bitch at me again about how posh my job is. I got lucky, I get paid well, great benefits, but somehow I should feel bad about it. Women find the negative in everything.

Deathwing · Apr 3, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
They're low pay because they're low skill. If men did daycare it would still pay $10 an hour. There's a big difference between a hard job and a shitty job. Being a brain surgeon is hard, being a janitor is just shitty. Watching children doesn't take skill or learning-- if it did humans would be extinct long ago.

lol, seriously? Have you taken care of an infant before? Kept it happy, tried to teach it things, fed it? Followed all the state and federal regulations? Remember one kid likes this this other doesn't?

I'm not going to presume upon why daycare is a low paid job. Occam's razor says its supply and demand. But that does not mean it's low skill.

Khane · Apr 3, 2014

Not even close Deathwing. Are you seriously saying women are incapable of finding better work? It's not just women, there are a ton of men who have shit jobs and do nothing about it aside from bitching about how life sucks. There are a lot of factors at play on individual basis for why a woman is working at her current job. When a woman starts acting entitled to the finer things in life even though she could never afford them without her man that's when I get really annoyed.

I am not saying "Welfare is stupid, just pull yourself up from your bootstraps even though you have no formal education and grew up in the slums of America. I ain't payin' fer yer shit". I'm saying, "You aren't even goddamn trying woman, at least fucking try because guess what, you have me to fall back on if you fail. So if you want to bitch and moan and act entitled just because you're on my arm then go find another arm cuz I'm out"

Noodleface · Apr 3, 2014

I remember this dude in either the "what do you do" thread or another one that was working at a restaurant making minimum wage for like 10 years because he thought he was going to be manager one day. Definitely not just chicks.

TrollfaceDeux · Apr 3, 2014

Noodleface_sl said:
That's the plan, to move up. I should be clear, my job requires X amount of work every day. If I do X amount of work in 2 hours, then that's on me, if it takes me 12 hours then so be it, that's what I signed up for. I may have exaggerated on being on reddit/rerolled all day - but I sit in a lot of conference calls all day where I pop in when required. I always have rerolled open on another monitor because it can be boring as shit. I'm working on improving it though.

As for her job, you say it isn't hard and I say it's hard and has its challenges in its own way. Maybe it's a menial and mundane task, but it requires a certain person (turnover is like 90% of people that are hired end up quitting the first week). The plus side is she'll never be fat working at that job and it gets her off my back about bitching about losing weight every night.

The funny thing is she guilt trips me whenever I want to work at home, just like your story! Actually exactly like that. She will always go "wow, must be nice to be able to work from home while I need to go into the snow." Woman, it's not my goddamn fault you got an english degree and I got an engineering degree. You could be a teacher or something and not have to work a physical job, but you refuse to do that. I always tell her I'm going to change careers to be a garbage man so she can never bitch at me again about how posh my job is. I got lucky, I get paid well, great benefits, but somehow I should feel bad about it. Women find the negative in everything.

shes just jealous of your success bro.

Frenzied Wombat · Apr 3, 2014

Deathwing_sl said:
I didn't mean to imply that women like, subconsciously, getting paid less, so the choose low paying careers. It was more that "women do this job, so I'll do this job". But your point about acceptance of low pay in female dominated jobs is also good. There so many factors that influence what a woman gets paid that you can't just chalk it up to "why don't they just get better jobs?" I mean, seriously, read that line again, it's fucking ridiculous. Here's how ridiculous it is:

I'm bad at memes, but modify it in your heads accordingly. Khane, Frenzied Wombat...you're Mitt Romney, scratching your heads, wondering why women just don't get better jobs.

But I don't care that my woman doesn't make as much as me, if I did I would have never started dating her in the first place. I also don't care about her getting a better job if that's not what she wants. She's 32 years old and it would be entirely unrealistic and unfair of me to expect her to go back to school so she can soar beyond the confines of a paralegal position. What I DO care about is recognition of the fact that I have transformed her life for the better, and some "action" based reciprocation on her part is warranted. She lived in a studio apartment, drove a beater, had student debt, and generally struggled to make ends meet. She now lives in a new house, was able to replace her car, has a maid cleaning up after her, paid off her student debt, and now has a mass amount of disposable income to spend on things she wants. Her life was literally transformed with the major stresses most people have to deal with (bills, debt, etc) ERASED from her existence. In exchange I expect her to reciprocate not financially, but by doing the majority of errands, which I've calculated equates to 45 minutes of work per day. I have offered her other projects/tasks I don't like or am not good with (like decorating the house) instead of errands but she just isn't the Suzie Homemaker type.

mkopec · Apr 3, 2014

^^^^Well maybe she just isnt the perfect woman for you then? Obviously she is not living up to your standards.

Women do have it easier in that they can either choose the career route or just be a domicile engineer. (Based on what they look like, lol) Men, for the most part, of course do not have that option. Because one of the prerequisites of societal norm still is that the "men" are the breadwinners. And the better the breadwinner you are the more attractive of a mate you become.

TrollfaceDeux · Apr 3, 2014

you can't make someone do something that they won't like or enjoy. there are women out there who appreciates their husband for what they bring to the table. yours isn't one by the sound of it.

thankfully, you got tons of options and don't have any biological clock to consider. your sperm will be tender and juicy for a long time.

Deathwing · Apr 3, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Not even close Deathwing. Are you seriously saying women are incapable of finding better work? It's not just women, there are a ton of men who have shit jobs and do nothing about it aside from bitching about how life sucks. There are a lot of factors at play on individual basis for why a woman is working at her current job. When a woman starts acting entitled to the finer things in life even though she could never afford them without her man that's when I get really annoyed.

I am not saying "Welfare is stupid, just pull yourself up from your bootstraps even though you have no formal education and grew up in the slums of America. I ain't payin' fer yer shit". I'm saying, "You aren't even goddamn trying woman, at least fucking try because guess what, you have me to fall back on if you fail. So if you want to bitch and moan and act entitled just because you're on my arm then go find another arm cuz I'm out"

You answered your own question. There are not tons of shitty women, there are tons of shitty, lazy, entitled people.

You keep going back and forth, I can't get a feel on what your position exactly is. Either your GFs have been shitty and entitled, or you feel your salary should get a little bit more out of the relationship. Can't be both.

Frenzied Wombat · Apr 3, 2014

Deathwing_sl said:
lol, seriously? Have you taken care of an infant before? Kept it happy, tried to teach it things, fed it? Followed all the state and federal regulations? Remember one kid likes this this other doesn't?

I'm not going to presume upon why daycare is a low paid job. Occam's razor says its supply and demand. But that does not mean it's low skill.

Raised 4 younger sisters. It sucks, it's exhausting, its messy, and it's frustrating, but it requires little brain skill. In most states all you even need is a high school degree to be a child care worker. Again, if child rearing was HARD ( as in it required applied learning like math/engineering or anything else that had to be formally learnt), then the human race would be extinct. The pay gap between skilled work and unskilled work has always been huge, and day care work falls into the unskilled category. Now if you were talking about high school teachers I would 100% agree with you that they are underpaid. If you get a masters and have to deal with kids all day and make 40K a year you're getting fucked. But I consider a high school teacher "skilled work".

Deathwing · Apr 3, 2014

Do you guys even read what you're typing?

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
But I don't care that my woman doesn't make as much as me

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
What I DO care about is recognition of the fact that I have transformed her life for the better, and some "action" based reciprocation on her part.

Unless you're Jesus and cured her cancer, I'm pretty sure it was the salary difference that changed her life. So yes, you do care what she makes. If she made as much as you, no transformation!

mkopec · Apr 3, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Raised 4 younger sisters. It sucks, it's exhausting, its messy, and it's frustrating, but it requires little brain skill. In most states all you even need is a high school degree to be a child care worker. Again, if child rearing was HARD ( as in it required applied learning like math/engineering or anything else that had to be formally learnt), then the human race would be extinct.

Yeah but without those menial workers performing those tasks you deem as brainless society would also fail. It gores both ways, bro.

TrollfaceDeux · Apr 3, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Raised 4 younger sisters. It sucks, it's exhausting, its messy, and it's frustrating, but it requires little brain skill. In most states all you even need is a high school degree to be a child care worker. Again, if child rearing was HARD ( as in it required applied learning like math/engineering or anything else that had to be formally learnt), then the human race would be extinct.

i dunno why so many women go to child and youth care as their default option. i know a lot of women who drop out of nursing program because it got too hard for them and stuck to that very same option.

Deathwing · Apr 3, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Raised 4 younger sisters. It sucks, it's exhausting, its messy, and it's frustrating, but it requires little brain skill. In most states all you even need is a high school degree to be a child care worker. Again, if child rearing was HARD ( as in it required applied learning like math/engineering or anything else that had to be formally learnt), then the human race would be extinct.

There's varying degrees between "exist" and "extinct". Doctor used to not require PHDs too! How did the human race ever survive?!?!

I would like to think by now, we've advanced enough as a society that early childhood as a career can be complicated and require degrees. NOT babysitting, teaching.

Frenzied Wombat · Apr 3, 2014

mkopec_sl said:
Yeah but without those menial workers performing those tasks you deem as brainless society would also fail. It gores both ways, bro.

Never said they weren't needed or not an essential service, just that I don't think it's a skilled job that deserves high pay. The world couldn't function without garbage men either, but I don't think they should make 100K a year.

Khane · Apr 3, 2014

Deathwing_sl said:
You answered your own question. There are not tons of shitty women, there are tons of shitty, lazy, entitled people.

You keep going back and forth, I can't get a feel on what your position exactly is. Either your GFs have been shitty and entitled, or you feel your salary should get a little bit more out of the relationship. Can't be both.

Well, the conversation spiraled out of control. I am specifically referring to the type of woman Joeboo described. Not women in general. But yes, if I am literally taking care of you from a financial perspective I expect you to take care of me at least a little at home. It doesn't really have anything to do with salary per se, but rather in the specific situation where the woman in question doesn't make a tangible, livable wage and relies on a man to take care of her.

But really, in situations like what I am referring to the woman is relying on her partner take care of her in every sense of the word "rely". Why is it not OK for the man to rely on her to take care of him? I'm serious.

Of course these are all hypotheticals because I would never date a woman like that again. To answer your question, yes my last two serious GFs were both spoiled, selfish, rotten brats. But I didn't see that until we moved in together and started talking about the future.

TrollfaceDeux · Apr 3, 2014

not sure where this discussion is going.

Frenzied Wombat · Apr 3, 2014

Deathwing_sl said:
There's varying degrees between "exist" and "extinct". Doctor used to not require PHDs too! How did the human race ever survive?!?!

I would like to think by now, we've advanced enough as a society that early childhood as a career can be complicated and require degrees. NOT babysitting, teaching.

Yes, and back when doctor's didn't require PhD's people lived to the average age of 40 and medicine usually hurt more than healed.. Has child rearing advanced on the same scale as medicine, engineering, or any other applied study? Are children better educated and/or behaved now than they were 100 years ago as a result of our modern day coddle based daycare system? Ironically, the answer is no.

mkopec · Apr 3, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Well, the conversation spiraled out of control. I am specifically referring to the type of woman Joeboo described. Not women in general. But yes, if I am literally taking care of you from a financial perspective I expect you to take care of me at least a little at home. It doesn't really have anything to do with salary per se, but rather in the specific situation where the woman in question doesn't make a tangible, livable wage and relies on a man to take care of her.

But really, in situations like what I am referring to the woman is relying on her partner take care of her in every sense of the word "rely". Why is it not OK for the man to rely on her to take care of him? I'm serious.

Of course these are all hypotheticals because I would never date a woman like that again. To answer your question, yes my last two serious GFs were both spoiled, selfish, rotten brats. But I didn't see that until we moved in together and started talking about the future.

Sure they should. I dont think anyone is denying any of what you said in this post. Who would want someone that absolutely did nothing while reaping the rewards of a good life at the husbands expense? But I do have a few friends that do just that. Power of a woman, I guess.

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