Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Deathwing · Aug 14, 2019

Noodleface said:
I just think saying you don't respect someone carries a lot more weight than you're realizing it does

Well, maybe I said it with that purpose then. I'm tired of working 45-50 hours a week and then getting nagged for not spending enough time with my kid. I'm tired of putting up with my shitty, uninteresting, but well-paying job only to see my money all gone. I'm tired of facing the prospect of the next 20-30 years having sex once a week at best. I'm tired of having to maintain a house and 2 acres by myself. I'm tired of having a housewife but I still frequently have to help her with cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry. I'm tired of having a wife that doesn't realize the ideals she half-ass supports incidentally puts her at odds with my gender.

I know these are a list of one-sided gripes, I'm sure she has her own valid ones. Like putting up with a husband that's miserable 24/7. To that point and my overall point, you need something to look forward to. Even if it's only subconscious, you need something to anticipate to make the bullshit tenable. I don't have that right now. There's nothing at the end of the day that makes the above worthwhile.

Maybe you're right, it wasn't right to say that, and I was just lashing out.

I apologize for the blog-like posts. In these type of matters, I prefer the honesty of strangers over friends and family(yes, which I realize supports going to a counselor). And I somewhat suspect the aforementioned like her more than me.

chaos · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Well, maybe I said it with that purpose then. I'm tired of working 45-50 hours a week and then getting nagged for not spending enough time with my kid. I'm tired of putting up with my shitty, uninteresting, but well-paying job only to see my money all gone. I'm tired of facing the prospect of the next 20-30 years having sex once a week at best. I'm tired of having to maintain a house and 2 acres by myself. I'm tired of having a housewife but I still frequently have to help her with cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry. I'm tired of having a wife that doesn't realize the ideals she half-ass supports incidentally puts her at odds with my gender.

I know these are a list of one-sided gripes, I'm sure she has her own valid ones. Like putting up with a husband that's miserable 24/7. To that point and my overall point, you need something to look forward to. Even if it's only subconscious, you need something to anticipate to make the bullshit tenable. I don't have that right now. There's nothing at the end of the day that makes the above worthwhile.

Maybe you're right, it wasn't right to say that, and I was just lashing out.

I apologize for the blog-like posts. In these type of matters, I prefer the honesty of strangers over friends and family(yes, which I realize supports going to a counselor). And I somewhat suspect the aforementioned like her more than me.

Maybe it's just me, but the political/philosophical stuff seems kind of glommed on, like it's just something that annoys you about her. The real problems sound like all that other shit you mentioned. Have you really communicated this stuff with her? Like you've sat down and had a calm, reasoned discussion about the money, the sex, the house, etc?

Noodleface · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Well, maybe I said it with that purpose then. I'm tired of working 45-50 hours a week and then getting nagged for not spending enough time with my kid. I'm tired of putting up with my shitty, uninteresting, but well-paying job only to see my money all gone. I'm tired of facing the prospect of the next 20-30 years having sex once a week at best. I'm tired of having to maintain a house and 2 acres by myself. I'm tired of having a housewife but I still frequently have to help her with cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry. I'm tired of having a wife that doesn't realize the ideals she half-ass supports incidentally puts her at odds with my gender.

I know these are a list of one-sided gripes, I'm sure she has her own valid ones. Like putting up with a husband that's miserable 24/7. To that point and my overall point, you need something to look forward to. Even if it's only subconscious, you need something to anticipate to make the bullshit tenable. I don't have that right now. There's nothing at the end of the day that makes the above worthwhile.

Maybe you're right, it wasn't right to say that, and I was just lashing out.

I apologize for the blog-like posts. In these type of matters, I prefer the honesty of strangers over friends and family(yes, which I realize supports going to a counselor). And I somewhat suspect the aforementioned like her more than me.

You know, by the way you wrote this... We aren't all that different. Except the sex part, this could basically be my wife.

Edit: she doesn't have issues with feminism and gender.

Deathwing · Aug 14, 2019

chaos said:
Maybe it's just me, but the political/philosophical stuff seems kind of glommed on, like it's just something that annoys you about her. The real problems sound like all that other shit you mentioned. Have you really communicated this stuff with her? Like you've sat down and had a calm, reasoned discussion about the money, the sex, the house, etc?

You could be right. I suspect these have always been an issue but easily glossed over and forgotten during better times. Nobody is 100% compatible, not even close, I'm not going to expect her to be lockstep with me on every political and philosophical issue. The cognitive dissonance or willful ignorance when confronted with the truth is what annoys me more. Especially since 3rd wave feminism is starting to take on flavors of blatant man-hating, I don't want her caught up in that too.

We have definitely had discussions about all of this. I don't know if they are calm and reasoned anymore though.

Khane · Aug 14, 2019

Your wife doesn't work but is caught up in fighting gender roles and being a feminist?

Ishad · Aug 14, 2019

Does your wife really want to be a housewife?

Deathwing · Aug 14, 2019

Khane said:
Your wife doesn't work but is caught up in fighting gender roles and feminism?

Half-assedly. She's gone to women's marches, which are really just anti Trump marches. She's gone to those Pride events. Which is not to say women and gay people don't have issues worth fighting for. When I've asked her about that, she had some decent answers. So, not knocking her for that. Just showing you the level of "caught up" she's at.

Ishad No. She used to babysit up until recently, but those kids are now in school. She would like to train to be a doula.

Captain Suave · Aug 14, 2019

Noodleface said:
I just think saying you don't respect someone carries a lot more weight than you're realizing it does

When I proposed to my wife, an older friend who knew us well gave us some advice. He was on his second marriage; his first ended in a protracted, painful divorce. He said that, in retrospect, he knew it was over the first time he honestly and truly rolled his eyes at his ex. Not in the "I love you but that was dumb," or "Wow, you didn't think about that one, did you? Tee hee!" ways, but straight up "You're a moron."

Respect is a foundational component of a relationship. If lost, and you want to make it work, you need to get it back.

Ishad · Aug 14, 2019

Support her in the doula training and getting her own thing going. I’ve seen plenty of couples where a spouse stays home because it makes sense not because they really want to and it causes plenty of conflict. There’s resentment from the working spouse about the person staying home not doing their “job”, the other spouse doesn’t want to feel like an employee in their relationship.

Vandyn · Aug 14, 2019

Only thing I'll say about counseling is that it's mostly allows you to communicate more with your spouse, usually in ways that you never did before (even in the best of times). Sometimes that's all some marriages need, you would be surprised how many marriages fail simply due to lack of communication especially on a deeper level. That also means allowing yourself to hear things that you don't want to hear. It doesn't work for everyone, some relationships are so beyond things like communication that there really isn't saving it, the two people are just incompatible.

My advice is to at least try it for a few sessions and see if it helps. You may learn stuff about each other that although you may not agree with, it may give a better understanding of the how and why which at least may lead to respect.

fris · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Told my wife last night that I don't respect her. This was within the context of stupid 3rd-wave feminism bullshit like genderless pronouns and gender pay gap. She was really offended by it and said that was going to be hard to get over. Isn't this inherent when telling someone they made a poor choice? I get that it's a breach of "common courtesy", but given the amount shit I've complained about in this thread, I feel like I have to be extremely blunt with her.

Week after week of fighting and no sex. I'm stuck in this terrible self feedback loop where the lack of sex is now contributing to the lack of sex.

This kinda feels like the end. She's suggested counseling but I feel like that's just lighting my money on fire. Has anyone actually gone to counseling and it's improved their marriage?

Our 1st councilor was a useless and just listened and asked the occasional softball question

Our 2nd called her a bitch during our 4th season. The wife never went back

Our 3rd suggested I file for divorce and that I could get full custody

Were divorced, 50/50 custody with zero child support and 50/50 split of assets.

I can say they improved my life, as I'm better not being married to someone that is labeled by a dr. Level specialist as a bitch.

Cutlery · Aug 14, 2019

Noodleface said:
You know, by the way you wrote this... We aren't all that different. Except the sex part, this could basically be my wife.

Edit: she doesn't have issues with feminism and gender.

This is most women, I think. They're completely detached from reality.

And really, it's no one's fault but men's, who let them get away with doing absolutely nothing simply because they have a vagina.

Srathor · Aug 14, 2019

If you do not have mutual respect, then it should be over.
If you do not have mutual trust then it is over.

Can you trust others words and opinions to give you back the respect she once earned? (therapist)
It takes longer to build trust back once it is lost, a lot longer.

Figure out what you want and start acting towards that.
Divorce or figuring out how to repair the broken shit and get back to marriage and love and shit.

Captain Suave · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Well, maybe I said it with that purpose then. I'm tired of working 45-50 hours a week and then getting nagged for not spending enough time with my kid. I'm tired of putting up with my shitty, uninteresting, but well-paying job only to see my money all gone. I'm tired of facing the prospect of the next 20-30 years having sex once a week at best. I'm tired of having to maintain a house and 2 acres by myself. I'm tired of having a housewife but I still frequently have to help her with cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry. I'm tired of having a wife that doesn't realize the ideals she half-ass supports incidentally puts her at odds with my gender.

I know these are a list of one-sided gripes, I'm sure she has her own valid ones. Like putting up with a husband that's miserable 24/7. To that point and my overall point, you need something to look forward to. Even if it's only subconscious, you need something to anticipate to make the bullshit tenable. I don't have that right now. There's nothing at the end of the day that makes the above worthwhile.

Maybe you're right, it wasn't right to say that, and I was just lashing out.

I apologize for the blog-like posts. In these type of matters, I prefer the honesty of strangers over friends and family(yes, which I realize supports going to a counselor). And I somewhat suspect the aforementioned like her more than me.

You said you've had discussions, but have you said this to your wife, verbatim? It's a human and apparently self-aware take on the situation that could be the start of some important mutual realizations.

Or it could start a fight. But maybe you need that catharsis, too.

Aldarion · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Told my wife last night that I don't respect her. This was within the context of stupid 3rd-wave feminism bullshit like genderless pronouns and gender pay gap. She was really offended by it and said that was going to be hard to get over. Isn't this inherent when telling someone they made a poor choice? I get that it's a breach of "common courtesy", but given the amount shit I've complained about in this thread, I feel like I have to be extremely blunt with her.

Week after week of fighting and no sex. I'm stuck in this terrible self feedback loop where the lack of sex is now contributing to the lack of sex.

This kinda feels like the end. She's suggested counseling but I feel like that's just lighting my money on fire. Has anyone actually gone to counseling and it's improved their marriage?

It sounds like you've got other issues going on too, but IMO it'd be a good idea to let go of the political/philosophical stuff.

All women are kind of retarded about political/philosophical stuff. They can't help it, they've got malfunctioning emotion chips. I have immense respect for my wife as a human being. She works constantly to better herself, she is a truly kind person, and she has lots of very good ideas. But holy hell, she swallows hook line and sinker any bullshit her friends post on facebook. And I have to gently explain that no, actually Trump didnt do that, Obama did it. Or no, Trump never said that, what he said is on tape and its XYZ.

Accepting this is IMO a key to having functional relationships with women. Its like accepting that a dog is gonna lick its balls and then lick your hand. You may not like it, but I dont think there's anything to be done about it, so if you're gonna keep the dog you accept that it happens.

I say focus on the parts that can be fixed, like sex.

LachiusTZ · Aug 14, 2019

Aldarion said:
It sounds like you've got other issues going on too, but IMO it'd be a good idea to let go of the political/philosophical stuff.

All women are kind of retarded about political/philosophical stuff. They can't help it, they've got malfunctioning emotion chips. I have immense respect for my wife as a human being. She works constantly to better herself, she is a truly kind person, and she has lots of very good ideas. But holy hell, she swallows hook line and sinker any bullshit her friends post on facebook. And I have to gently explain that no, actually Trump didnt do that, Obama did it. Or no, Trump never said that, what he said is on tape and its XYZ.

Accepting this is IMO a key to having functional relationships with women. Its like accepting that a dog is gonna lick its balls and then lick your hand. You may not like it, but I dont think there's anything to be done about it, so if you're gonna keep the dog you accept that it happens.

I say focus on the parts that can be fixed, like sex.

Personally I'm in too deep for that, but its prolly a fact most dudes are just gonna have to deal w/.

Noodleface · Aug 14, 2019

I think the problem with sex is it's related to "fibromyalgia" and yes I put that in quotes on purpose

Lendarios · Aug 14, 2019

Deathwing said:
Well, maybe I said it with that purpose then. I'm tired of working 45-50 hours a week and then getting nagged for not spending enough time with my kid. I'm tired of putting up with my shitty, uninteresting, but well-paying job only to see my money all gone. I'm tired of facing the prospect of the next 20-30 years having sex once a week at best. I'm tired of having to maintain a house and 2 acres by myself. I'm tired of having a housewife but I still frequently have to help her with cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry. I'm tired of having a wife that doesn't realize the ideals she half-ass supports incidentally puts her at odds with my gender.

I know these are a list of one-sided gripes, I'm sure she has her own valid ones. Like putting up with a husband that's miserable 24/7. To that point and my overall point, you need something to look forward to. Even if it's only subconscious, you need something to anticipate to make the bullshit tenable. I don't have that right now. There's nothing at the end of the day that makes the above worthwhile.

Maybe you're right, it wasn't right to say that, and I was just lashing out.

I apologize for the blog-like posts. In these type of matters, I prefer the honesty of strangers over friends and family(yes, which I realize supports going to a counselor). And I somewhat suspect the aforementioned like her more than me.

this was also my life for the better part of last year. The worse was when the wife was not working and I still had to come home to a dirty kitchen. Infuriating.

Try counseling, in your first session layout that you are simply tired of not being appreciated, neither physical, emotionally, nor sexually.

Deathwing · Aug 14, 2019

Noodleface said:
I think the problem with sex is it's related to "fibromyalgia" and yes I put that in quotes on purpose

Yeah, I'm hoping that turns out to be a bunk diagnosis. Seeing a specialist now and it's just slow going by the backlog of their schedule.

They are ruling out B12 deficiency and sleep apnea currently.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, too much to respond to individually. I apologized for the respect comment specifically. And we talked a bit more about how we can resolve issues without me resorting to anger or her breaking down. I admittedly do have a short fuse but I think some of that is earned.

I'll ask her about counseling too.

Khane · Aug 14, 2019

Aldarion said:
It sounds like you've got other issues going on too, but IMO it'd be a good idea to let go of the political/philosophical stuff.

All women are kind of retarded about political/philosophical stuff. They can't help it, they've got malfunctioning emotion chips. I have immense respect for my wife as a human being. She works constantly to better herself, she is a truly kind person, and she has lots of very good ideas. But holy hell, she swallows hook line and sinker any bullshit her friends post on facebook. And I have to gently explain that no, actually Trump didnt do that, Obama did it. Or no, Trump never said that, what he said is on tape and its XYZ.

Accepting this is IMO a key to having functional relationships with women. Its like accepting that a dog is gonna lick its balls and then lick your hand. You may not like it, but I dont think there's anything to be done about it, so if you're gonna keep the dog you accept that it happens.

I say focus on the parts that can be fixed, like sex.

I understand what you mean here. I've had my fair share of "what the fuck did she just say?" moments in my life. But the fact of the matter is all people, in general, are idiotic when it comes to politics. As humans, we all latch onto ideas or worse, ideals, and pretend there is only one answer to many questions. Worse, we pretend the answer is simple. I'll leave philosophy out because I'd rather just take a dump on that topic altogether.

The bigger problem, as Cutlery pointed out, is many men are willing to ignore anything and everything a woman says or does if she's pretty and his friends think she's a looker. And then those men find themselves in situations, years down the road, where they wonder why they have nothing in common with their wife as if it happened overnight. And act like their lack of respect for her is some acute, sudden revelation. If there's only one thing you care about, and something as inevitable as aging affects that one thing and forces you to finally look at all the other aspects involved in a relationship well... duh you stupid fuck.

And that isn't a call out on any specific man here or anywhere. It's something that happens so often it's almost unbelievable how stupid and blind some men are until it's too late.

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