Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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iannis

iannis

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Noodleface_sl said:
Forgot to mention. It was a long night of us picking up the new chair and bringing it home, moving the couch and scratching the floor. Living room looks really weird now and she goes "you know what.. we definitely need a second chair". My mind is screaming "FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST BRING IT UP AT THE STORE" but my body is saying "sure, we can go again."
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Jesus. You really need to work out a system for that. I laugh at your misery not because I'm an asshole but because it's FUNNY.

And I know that's gonna be hard for you. That's a hard thing to do for/with anybody. But this is one of those "Sweets, we need to have a realtalk time, because this is going to drive me insane and you don't want to be married to an insane person do you?" issues. And I mean whatever it is that you two figure out... but it has to be better than the "Go do this" and you immediately go do that situation it sounds like you've got going on right now. You can confront that without hostility, but if you keep eating the shit and vomitting it back up because some little thing was finally too much -- that's also confronting it, but it's always going to be hostile.
 
chaos

chaos

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Noodleface_sl said:
I think you guys should have a real conversation about it, depending on how sensitive she is to the issue.

My mother-in-law got a hysterectomy and turned into nothingness. She has a man's haircut now, dresses like a man, and made her husband move to a separate room. I don't mean to scare you, but know that this is a possibility if you don't talk (they didn't and still don't).
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jesus christ, my balls just shrank up thinking about that. that is horrifying.
 
Noodleface

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Iannis_sl said:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Jesus. You really need to work out a system for that. I laugh at your misery not because I'm an asshole but because it's FUNNY.

And I know that's gonna be hard for you. That's a hard thing to do for/with anybody. But this is one of those "Sweets, we need to have a realtalk time, because this is going to drive me insane and you don't want to be married to an insane person do you?" issues. And I mean whatever it is that you two figure out... but it has to be better than the "Go do this" and you immediately go do that situation it sounds like you've got going on right now. You can confront that without hostility, but if you keep eating the shit and vomitting it back up because some little thing was finally too much -- that's also confronting it, but it's always going to be hostile.
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I know right. Here's the crazy thing. I'll come home and she'll go "we need to get another chair" and in my mind I'm going "If we just do this one thing maybe I can relax." It's never-ending. It's like she has this huge list in her head but she's only giving it to me one at a time.
 
iannis

iannis

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Noodleface_sl said:
I think you guys should have a real conversation about it, depending on how sensitive she is to the issue.

My mother-in-law got a hysterectomy and turned into nothingness. She has a man's haircut now, dresses like a man, and made her husband move to a separate room. I don't mean to scare you, but know that this is a possibility if you don't talk (they didn't and still don't).
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It seems to be quite variable. My mother had one and really didn't change at all. I've known women that had them and went the way of your mother-in-law. I've known younger women to have them and... I swear it's the estrogen makes them nutty. I mean girl nutty, like a raw fucking nerve sometimes.

But it's so complex that it seems to defy prediction. Base personality is a greater influence than hormones. And personality is subject to conscious control. Hormones are just something that happens to you.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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Chaos, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if she's not into sex now, she certainly won't be after a radical hysterectomy. Both my mom and an ex that I kept in touch with had to have hysterectomies, and that was pretty much the end of their sex lives. I mean, basically their entire sexual machinery is excised. Lube becomes mandatory even IF they want to have sex. It's a particularly bad situation because while it's totally "ok" to stress and/or leave a relationship over simple choice (or psychological) based "frigidity", it's a far greater moral dilemma when it's precipitated by a medical condition. I don't envy the choice you'll one day be forced to face, as neither path is particularly palatable..

And Iannis, though I agree that personality is a great influence, I think you undervalue the necessity of hormones. Ask a guy with low T that has undergone therapy to evaluate his interest in sex under both circumstances (low and normal), and you'll pretty much get a universal consensus that it's like night and day.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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Chaos, I don't understand the despair. Well, I mean, I do understand you being bummed about not being able to fuck you wife, but why is the situation overall bumming you out? This was not a conscious choice by your wife. Something has changed that was out of your/her control, accept it and move on. Railing against won't do anything except cause anger.

Get a fleshlight. Maybe talk to her about fucking other people, but that's a weird situation with kids at the very least.
 
chaos

chaos

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Deathwing_sl said:
Chaos, I don't understand the despair. Well, I mean, I do understand you being bummed about not being able to fuck you wife, but why is the situation overall bumming you out? This was not a conscious choice by your wife. Something has changed that was out of your/her control, accept it and move on. Railing against won't do anything except cause anger.

Get a fleshlight. Maybe talk to her about fucking other people, but that's a weird situation with kids at the very least.
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I'm not railing, just venting really because I can't really talk to her about it. It is a problem that I consider a really serious problem and she doesn't so it makes me feel like I am the one who is crazy. None of that other shit is really a satisfactory solution to me, either be lonely for the rest of my life or step out on her, we have kids, I can't do that shit even if I wanted to. idk, just venting.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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Seriously, I think having to face the fact that if you want to hold your marriage together it will potentially require abstaining from sex for the rest of your life to be perfectly worthy of "despair" and "railing". "Acceptance" doesn't make that any easier unless you happen to be Spock.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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Talk about it all you want, but what's the end game here? I don't see the point of worrying over things you can't change.
 
Big Phoenix

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chaos_sl said:
My wife is having surgery in a couple of weeks. Most likely a hysterectomy. She is in constant pain pretty much, to varying degrees, and it looks like this is what is going to happen. So of course I am concerned about her health, but this is a laproscopy and generally a really safe thing so I'm not really worried. You're all bros so I had mentioned before that our sex life was already just terrible. Over the past year or so I have filled my time with activities, to the point that I was just exhausting myself during this past semester at school. But it helps to kind of distract from how shitty this situation is. So now, of course, it seems likely that she will probably have even less sex drive than the non-existent one she has now, and this is really bumming me out. I never imagined myself in a relationship like this, I always felt sorry for guys in relationships like this, and here I am. I have no idea what to do. Every time I try and talk to her about it, she just has no concept of how difficult this is, to her it is just whatever.
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This has been going on for a year? You need to sit down and have a serious talk. Thats no different that putting on 100 pounds and not caring how it effects the relationship.
It seems to be quite variable. My mother had one and really didn't change at all. I've known women that had them and went the way of your mother-in-law. I've known younger women to have them and... I swear it's the estrogen makes them nutty. I mean girl nutty, like a raw fucking nerve sometimes.
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Same here. My mom has had one as well and she never changed.
Seriously, I think having to face the fact that if you want to hold your marriage together it will potentially require abstaining from sex for the rest of your life to be perfectly worthy of "despair" and "railing". "Acceptance" doesn't make that any easier unless you happen to be Spock.
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Not worth it. You only live once and there is zero point of sacrificing your self fulfillment and happiness for someone elses.
 
lindz

lindz

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I can understand pain putting a damper on sex, but it sounds like it has been going on longer than the pain has been a real problem. Like others have said, marriage counselling might be a good option for you guys.

The one thing I worry about though about any sort of doctor advice, is the lack of importance they place on sex. I'd do research to make sure the counsellor your seeing isn't someone who is going to make you feel like a creep for wanting to have sex more often. This is something that really bugs me honestly. I went to the doctor yesterday because of pelvic pain, we ordered tests and she said in the meantime, abstain from sex. I have had doctors constantly belittle the need for sex. After babies my obgyn, whom I normally just love, always makes remarks about how you need to wait a minimum of 4 weeks but it's not like you'll want to have sex for quite awhile anyways. Uh, yes I do. I want to have sex the second I'm able to and I did after all three kids. I feel like sex being a healthy and important part of our lives isn't something that is considered in the medical community.

Then combine that with the social pressure. All I hear is how woman don't want to have sex, woman have no sex drives, we have sex with our husbands once or twice a month and that is totally normal and fine. I think those generalizations have an incredibly negative effect on women's perception of a healthy sex life. I feel like I am strange to actually enjoy having sex, to want it often, to incorporate toys, etc.
 
Gravy

Gravy

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I've changed my mind. chaos is the one who needs a puppy, and teach it to love peanut butter.
 
Cad

Cad

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lindz_sl said:
Then combine that with the social pressure. All I hear is how woman don't want to have sex, woman have no sex drives, we have sex with our husbands once or twice a month and that is totally normal and fine. I think those generalizations have an incredibly negative effect on women's perception of a healthy sex life. I feel like I am strange to actually enjoy having sex, to want it often, to incorporate toys, etc.
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Not only that, but those same women who deliberately withhold sex from their husbands also wonder why their husbands treat them like shit.
 
Joeboo

Joeboo

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I think the main thing most of us guys have to ask ourselves concerning a girlfriend/wife, is would you be happy with them if there was no sex? Do you like them enough as a person to look forward to spending time and doing things with them if it doesn't lead to naked time?

I'm not saying you should ever settle for no sex, that's a big deal to us guys, but sex can't be the main reason you want to be with someone, because inevitably that is the one thing that is probably going to change the most over time. So many outside influences can mess with your sex life(kids, health/sickness, etc), and I wouldn't ever want to completely give up on it, but if you're boning every day when you date, ask yourself if you would still be ok if instead of once a day if it were once a week, or once a month, because that's probably going to happen(even if only temporarily) at some point during a marriage. You better be able to handle that and be able to enjoy other aspects of your relationship in the meantime.

My wife's sex drive is vastly different than mine, she'd probably be ok with sex once a week, I'd prefer like twice a day, but we generally meet in the middle a few times a week. Some weeks that are super busy it may not happen at all, or only once, and other times when we have a lazy weekend with nothing to do, maybe it happens 2 or 3 times.

Maybe that philosophy is why I never got married until I was 34 years old, but I wasn't ever going to settle for someone that may have been a blast to screw, but I wanted to bang my head against a wall if we had to carry on a conversation at length. Unfortunately, some guys(and several of my friends) marry a woman whom they feel that way about. Eventually the sex is always going to slow down(or even disappear for certain lengths of time), that better not be the #1 reason you are with someone. It can be an important reason, but it can't be the only, or main reason, that is just setting you up for huge disappointment down the line.
 
Cad

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joeboo_sl said:
I think the main thing most of us guys have to ask ourselves concerning a girlfriend/wife, is would you be happy with them if there was no sex? Do you like them enough as a person to look forward to spending time and doing things with them if it doesn't lead to naked time?

I'm not saying you should ever settle for no sex, that's a big deal to us guys, but sex can't be the main reason you want to be with someone, because inevitably that is the one thing that is probably going to change the most over time. So many outside influences can mess with your sex life(kids, health/sickness, etc), and I wouldn't ever want to completely give up on it, but if you're boning every day when you date, ask yourself if you would still be ok if instead of once a day if it were once a week, or once a month, because that's probably going to happen(even if only temporarily) at some point during a marriage. You better be able to handle that and be able to enjoy other aspects of your relationship in the meantime.

My wife's sex drive is vastly different than mine, she'd probably be ok with sex once a week, I'd prefer like twice a day, but we generally meet in the middle a few times a week. Some weeks that are super busy it may not happen at all, or only once, and other times when we have a lazy weekend with nothing to do, maybe it happens 2 or 3 times.

Maybe that philosophy is why I never got married until I was 34 years old, but I wasn't ever going to settle for someone that may have been a blast to screw, but I wanted to bang my head against a wall if we had to carry on a conversation at length. Unfortunately, some guys(and several of my friends) marry a woman whom they feel that way about. Eventually the sex is always going to slow down(or even disappear for certain lengths of time), that better not be the #1 reason you are with someone. It can be an important reason, but it can't be the only, or main reason, that is just setting you up for huge disappointment down the line.
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The disconnect is thinking that you can't love them if you also don't have sex with them. I'll explain.

Of course you love your wife for more than sex - you wouldn't have married her otherwise (I hope). There's a lot they bring to the relationship. HOWEVER, us men being men, we will eventually be unhappy without steady sex.

Why does the person giving you sex have to be the same person you partner with? I'm not talking some open relationship etc in general (although whatever people do is fine) I'm just saying when clearly the other person doesn't want or can't have sex, why does that mean the end of the relationship? Why can't she see her way clear to understanding your needs and either seeing to it that they get fulfilled herself by bringing girls home and being a participant, or allowing you to fulfill your needs on your own?

The conventional wisdom is that you're an asshole if you step out or just say "I need sex", but we are only human. You will only get one life, and your opportunities to get your dick wet will dwindle as you get older. It's like saying "I simply choose not to travel to 90% of the world, because I love my wife and she won't travel. I can't go without her either, because of social norms, so just fuck the rest of the world. I won't experience it. The end." ?? What?
 
Joeboo

Joeboo

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Agreed. Life is too short to be unhappy, but I think a lot of people(and moreso the younger you are) go into a marriage with unreasonable expectations on how things will be in 5,10,20 years or more. Whether you are a man or woman, don't expect someone to change significantly after marriage, if they do a certain thing that really bothers you or that you don't like beforehand. Odds are it'll get worse rather than better.
 
Vitality

Vitality

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Noodleface_sl said:
I know right. Here's the crazy thing. I'll come home and she'll go "we need to get another chair" and in my mind I'm going "If we just do this one thing maybe I can relax." It's never-ending. It's like she has this huge list in her head but she's only giving it to me one at a time.
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Brodleface, this seems entirely unreasonable to deal with.
 
chaos

chaos

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That's the thing, my wife has changed significantly in this regard. And not just the normal slowdown thing, I expect that. Any reasonable person would. I just don't think having reluctant sex once every couple of months is reasonable. Maybe I am wrong and that is what other people do, but I don't get that impression.
 
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