Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Cad

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Here, I'll expand on it.

For about 6 months, the situation was deteriorating with my marriage. She was becoming increasingly more irresponsible and unreasonable and I was trying to preserve a stable household for my kids. She would routine go out to run errands and be gone for 8-10 hours, and not answer calls/texts. Got to the point where I was texting her friends asking if they knew where she was. When she came home, she would say shit like "oh, sorry, I was petting cats at the humane society.' This is actually what came out of her mouth one time. For 8 hours? Who the fuck do you think believes this shit? I fucking don't. This happened on a regular basis.

So, I'm pissed, obviously. Pissed because I'm pretty fucking sure I know what's going on, and also pissed that she's lying to me about it and insulting my intelligence. Arguments became more common, and louder. One day I fuckin had enough and I told her I was leaving, she told me "no you're not" and I heard the drawer in the kitchen open as I was walking down the stairs towards the garage, and I turned around and she was following me down the stairs with a knife. I grabbed her wrist, she ended up cutting my hand in the process, I took the knife out of her hands and just held her wrists and told her to calm the fuck down while she screamed at the top of her lungs. I told her I'd let her go when she calmed down, because I wasn't letting her go just so she could keep fighting me. She got increasingly more agitated, because you can't ever really tell women to calm down with a good effect, and eventually I relented and just let her go, and she went and locked herself in our room for a few hours, crying or some shit or something. That was the point when everything really changed. From that day on, she started saying shit like she was scared of me, because I guess that was the point she figured out that all the movies and TV shows were lying to her and women can't really beat men in a fight. Bear in mind at no point did I hit her or hurt her beyond the point of physically restraining her. I just took the knife from her, and stopped her from hitting me.

Things ebbed and flowed for a few more months and it became obvious that this was absolutely not going to work because she refused to be reasonable about anything. I offered to rent her an apartment out of the household budget so she could get some space and maybe we could save the marriage, but she refused, didn't want that. But also didn't want to do anything around the house, wanted no responsibilities, didn't want to take care of the kids, and just wanted to do whatever she wanted to do whenever she wanted to do it. Eventually it got to the point where I had given up on everything except on paper. I told her I didn't care what she did as long as we maintained the appearance of married for the kids, and as long as we were both on the same page with managing the household financials.

Shortly thereafter it was either a new guy, or the old guy i never knew about, but I at least knew what the fuck was going on and where she was. What do you fucking do? I was making like half of what she was at that point, and for me, making sure my kids didn't have their lives disrupted was more important than anything else. Last thing I wanted to do was pack up and leave and move to some fucking 1 bedroom or some shit and either leave the kids there with her, who was clearly not interested in parenting, or pack them into said one bedroom and have me sleep on the couch. So, judge me for whatever you want at this point, I don't care. I made the choice I made to try to preserve the life my kids were living. Right or wrong, it's what I did.

Somewhere along the way, the roof was leaking down thru the bathroom fan, so I got up on the roof, ripped half the shingles off and replaced some boards up there and then reroofed the shit. In the middle of doing all that, I tore the meniscus so bad in my left knee it was folded over on itself. My daughter was working evenings in basically the "downtown" area of my suburb at that point at a thrift store. My ex of course wanted to go out with the new guy, so I told her "Alright, I'll pick the kiddo up tonight, but you've gotta pick her up tomorrow, because my knee is killing me" "okay."

Well, obviously this never happened. Got a text from the kid at 10:15 saying "hey, are you picking me up?" No, your mom is. "Well, she's not here." Well, alright, fuck, guess I'm picking you up. Got all the way there, picked her up, got all the way home and the kid got a text from her mom saying "Dammit, almost made it." 45 minutes is I guess "Almost made it."

This was the turning point for me. I can handle you treating me like shit. I cannot handle you ignoring your own fucking kids and the responsibilities involved in that. I cannot and will not ever choose anyone or anything over my kids. They're priority number 1, always will be, and to this day they're the reason I do almost everything I do. I was fucking livid. I told her that I don't give a shit what she does, but the second it interferes with the kids, it's over. She should be embarrassed that as a mother she chose literally anything over her kids. From that point on, I told her she was placing kids first and everything else second, or this arrangement was over. Amongst other things, she agreed she would never be out past bar close (2am) so she wasn't doing the walk of shame in front of the kids.

We had more ups and downs for the next few months, but things had kinda settled down and evened out. Then she started having some issues with the girly parts, and we ended up heading down to Mayo for the day so they could figure out what was going on. Ended up being bladder cancer. Spent a long time in the car talking, and I legitimately thought we might be able to make this work. I figured a health scare like this might be what she needed to figure out what's important in her life and we could get over this, patch shit up and maybe make everything work. When we got home, she said she was gonna go see Joe, and I said "well, that's fucking disappointing, but whatever I guess, I'll see you when you get home."

Well, with all the shit we found out that day, I ended up not sleeping much at all, and the hours dragged on. 2am. 3am. 4am. Finally, 5am she walks in the door. I am unbelievably pissed because I can't believe that I just spend all day driving 300 miles and sitting with this bitch in a hospital trying to figure out if she was gonna fucking die or not and this is how she repays me. I asked her "what happened to you being home at bar close?" and her reply was "I changed that rule." My jaw probably hit the floor. I couldn't believe she could possibly say something so fucking dumb and disrespectful. At this point in our relationship, when we would have arguments, she would call her mom for some reason. She would literally sit on the fucking phone with her mom while we're arguing. So, she heads downstairs and grabs the phone (old style, one that plugs into the wall). I said "oh no, not this fucking time, we're sorting this shit out" and I ripped the phone cord out of the wall. She ran upstairs, starts the whole screaming process, I follow her, she starts throwing shit at me, and for a split second, I actually was going to hit her just to stop her from hitting me with shit, raised my hand, then realized what I was about to do and stopped. And then she yells "Call 911!" and I see that my daughter has followed us upstairs, and then runs back downstairs.

At this point I think, "Well, shit. I guess this is happening,' and I'm still in my boxers. I walk over to the bedroom, grab my jeans off the closet door and put them on, then walk out to the living room and my front door opens and 3 cops barge in. My German Shepherd does what German Shepherds do and bolts for the door so the very first thing the cops see when they come in the door is me and my 80lbs dog coming around the corner. I'm still fucking surprised that the dog or I didn't get fucking shot. They threatened it, but I had nothing in my hands, and i was able to get the dog under control pretty quickly. It literally happened just like that, at that time scale. I was super fucking confused.

The cops separate us and talk to us both. They ask her if I hit her, she says no. They ask me, I said yes. I've got all kinds of defensive wounds on my arms from the shit she threw at me. They ask me if I want to press charges, and I said no, because I didn't want the kids to see their mother dragged off to jail. They talk to us both for a bit more and say "Alright, well, there's nothing we've got here, so we're gonna get outta here, but if we have to come back here, one or both of you is going to jail." Alright, crisis averted, I guess we're okay. At this point the Sergeant comes downstairs to me and says "Who called 911?" I told him my daughter did, and he goes "No no no, the first time."

The first time?

It's at that point that the realization hits me that she did not call her mom. She called 911, it connected, I ripped the phone cord out of the wall. Interference with a 911 call is a gross misdemeanor, and is classed as a DV charge, however, it is almost never charged alone. It's usually an addon charge, like the guy is beating the bitch and she tries calling 911 and he chokes her with the phone cord or some shit.

Queue up 4 days in jail, because this was 5am Saturday morning, and they do bail hearings for misdemeanors on Monday, and gross misdemeanors on Tuesday. By the time I got out, some DV counselor had gotten with her and filled out some questionnaire about domestic violence, and that's when she said she was scared of me (Stemming from the incident where she found out she couldn't attack me with a knife for free) and when she got to the question asking "Does he have access to any firearms?" (I did not own any guns at this time, and she knew that) she answered "Well, yeah, he can just go to the store and buy one" and they marked "yes" on that box. Because of that, the motion for the order for protection was granted because she was scared of me and I had access to firearms. That is clearly not the intent of that question and she fucking knew it, but it got her what she wanted, which was me out of the house so she could do whatever she wanted.

I was outta the house for 5 months after that. The kids said she never even turned on the stove in all that time. I took the girls grocery shopping multiple times once I could see them again because there wasn't any food in the house, and she would just disappear for entire days. (longer story, but basically we got the court to agree to decide custody in divorce court and to not decide it at the OFP hearing, primarily because of her neglect). She stopped working because of "trauma as a result of her DV incident" and her work denied her disability claims, maybe because they actually read the police report, who knows.

My lawyer was actually pretty pissed. I had pictures of the house, my oldest knew exactly what was going on and was willing to testify for me at trial. My lawyer just couldn't get over how bold she was that I was taking care of the kids while she was out fucking around and I was the one who caught a charge out of all of this. He wanted to go to trial, because he could put her up on the stand and just rip her up one side and down the other with all of this shit. We could put me on the stand or we didn't have to, but he could basically make her look like the human garbage she is to a jury, and he was absolutely positive that I would walk away.

When the time came, I decided I wasn't gonna put my daughter thru that, so I plead guilty. Lawyer was super disappointed again. I remember him telling me "Dude, this is never how it goes. Normally it's the lawyer saying 'Eh, I'm thinking we gotta see what we can get out of a plea deal here because this looks pretty bad,' and it's the client saying 'No man, we gotta fight this bullshit!' and this time it's the complete opposite." I owe that guy a lot. He was a fantastic lawyer and exactly what I needed at that point in my life. If you're even in that situation, get a fucking lawyer. Don't cheap out either. The 6k or some shit I ended up paying that guy to navigate the OFP and the criminal charge was well worth it. You are not in the right headspace to be making decisions regarding your future. The entire reason I came out of that with no criminal record and I can buy guns today is because I shut my fucking mouth and let him handle it.

So, there you go. That's the story.
Not criticizing you Cutlery because a ton of people do the same thing, but you cannot ignore the red flags of crazy. The situation you're describing got to where it was because you ignored those red flags and rationalized it by saying "for the kids." She did not give a fuck about you, while you cared quite a lot and kept thinking you could make it work.

In fact you can't, and a lot of the things we attribute to "crazy" are just because the person does not actually like us. They simply do not care if they hurt your feelings or not, do not care if you are lonely or alone, they do not care. So their behavior makes no sense or seems crazy because you are an irrelevant distraction to them, in the way of the things they really want.

When you start to realize you're in that situation, you have to get the fuck out. Do not let big tits or occasionally good sex get in the way of using your rational thought. I'm not saying I told you so here, but you wanted to stay for the kids - are the kids better off now? Did having them go through that DV situation improve anything? Of course not, they would have been better off if you got out the instant you realized she didn't care about you. That sounds harsh, but I don't mean it that way. What I'm saying is as a lesson for everyone else, you cannot stay in that situation. You cannot make it work. She will not wake up one day and realize she cares about you. She won't. All you can do is cover up the scars and the hurt from it and decide to accept the situation or not. And accepting it will just lead to more hurt down the road.
 
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Cutlery

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It's always a slippery slope in relationships. Sometimes something happens and you're like "Man, that's fucked up," but you stick around because it's not fucked up enough to leave. I mean, where's the line, really? It's different for everyone, and it's really hard to see the line when you're in it. It's pretty easy to armchair quarterback any situation, and with hindsight, you can look at things more clearly.

But, on the flip side, you know what I get to do? I get to say "I did literally everything I could to save this, and I have no regrets." I can sleep with a clear conscience every night, because I tried literally everything all the way up to the breaking point. I don't have to wonder "man, what if I just tried a little harder?" That's worth something. It's worth a lot to me.

Are my kids better off? Well, my oldest is for sure. Her living with me and being away from her mother has drastically improved her. I talk about her here and there around here, but suffice it to say, she is a fantastic kid, and I'm really proud of her. The youngest is 13 now and that's a hard time for girls anyway, so it's hard to tell if she'd be better off or worse off. I know she's really confused why one house is straight MAGA all the time and one house is still taking covid tests and quarantining for their quarterly bouts of that shit, but on the flip side, she does have 4 parents now who care about her and she can learn from. She's just at the age now where she's starting to ask questions - she doesn't really know what went down that night because she was too young, but it's starting to come up. We'll see what happens.
 
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Cutlery

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That was a wild ride to read, probably cathartic for you as well. Thanks for being so open.

Eh, I don't tell many people about it these days. Not exactly something I'm proud of. I mean, yeah, everything ended up coming out okay for me, but I'd really rather have literally any other outcome.

It's all pretty fucking sinister when you think about it. You're with someone for half your life, and all of a sudden their behavior changes and you start thinking "that's weird, what's going on?" And they come up with vaguely plausible bullshit, and you give them the benefit of the doubt because you trust them. Part of you is fucking sure you know what's going on, but you're being lied to, convincingly, by someone you've shared a bed with for decades. You literally think you're going crazy because of the gaslighting. I likened it to being motion sickness - you're being told one thing, but your entire being is experiencing something completely different, and it's really hard to process.

Here's the worst mindfuck of the whole thing. I might have shared this somewhere here before, but we don't have a search function.

I was awarded the house in the divorce. I changed the locks and the garage code, but we had a 6 or 7 year old at the time, and she needed to be able to come and go, so I left the spare key in the same place for her ease of access. So, the little one knows the garage code, she knows where the key is, and she can get in the house.

A couple months after the fiance moves in, she sends me a picture of an earring that's in the entryway while I'm at work. No comment. I ask her what's that, she tells me it's an earring and asks me if it's either of the kids'. I tell her it doesn't look like anything I've ever seen them wear, and then I tell her "well, whatever you're gonna accuse me of, get to it, because I'm at work and I don't have time for this."

I get home, we ask both the kids, theyve never seen it, it doesn't belong to any of their friends or anything, I shrug at the fiance and tell her "I got nothing, I don't know what to tell you, but I don't know what that is."

Another couple months go by, she and I go out to dinner. We come home, I go to take a leak, come out of the bathroom and she's sitting on the bed with a bra laying on it and asks me "what the fuck is this?" I tell her "I don't know, doesn't look to be my size, you tell me." And she loses her shit because she saw it half underneath our dresser.

Now, my fiance is not a hoarder. She keeps a pretty clean house. Furthermore, when I came home, she helped me clean the entire bedroom, AND she cleaned it again when she moved in. So I believe her, it wasn't there at any point before. This is a B cup sports bra. My fiance is a DD, my kids are flat as boards, my ex hasn't been a B cup since she was 19, and, to top that all off, no woman I have been with between them was a B cup either. I have no idea what's going on.

I pulled my oldest upstairs and asked her if she knew what it is or where it came from, and she knew nothing. She also likes my fiance, and has done nothing before or since to try to undermine my relationship out of some weird "my parents are divorced but I can't stand to see them with anyone else" thing or anything.

So, we are left with a couple of options. Whoever did this would need to know how to get in the house, know when it was safe to be in the house, AND would need to be able to get past the aforementioned 80lb German Shepherd. That list is a very small list and consists only of a woman who is, on paper, afraid of me. So that is only 'slightly' more likely then ghosts.

Like I said ...the balls on that woman.
 
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Phazael

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Cameras. Your Ex is clearly fucking with your happiness and might have used the younger kid to get access to the house. You get the ex on camera breaking and entering, you will never have any legal troubles ever again and could probably get a lot of the shit she pulled in court overturned. Or maybe one of your daughters is gay and not forthcoming about it and they were mashing cooters on your bed, which is how the dog got bypassed. But there are places you can put a hidden cam that wont violate anyone's privacy and I am fairly certain the current Mrs Cutlery is just as eager to get to the bottom of this shit as you are, so you could discuss it with her if you have concerns.

Alternatively, if your youngest has a cell device, get keylocks that integrate into an alarm system that she can use her cell phone to unlock. Honestly, I would not even live in a house without an alarm system especially if I had kids I was worried about protecting so its worth looking into.

Edit- Whatever you do, knock off the defensive routine and frame this with the fiancé as a safety concern. If this the ex trying to fuck with you, then you are only helping her out by getting defensive and not talking out your concerns. Trust is a two way street, after all.
 
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Captain Suave

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Everyone should have cameras these days, if only to dissuade porch pirates. I want a record of everyone who comes across the property line. If you don't like the cloud/tech/AI overlords, there are self-hosted options at relatively reasonable prices.
 
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TomServo

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Cameras. Your Ex is clearly fucking with your happiness and might have used the younger kid to get access to the house. You get the ex on camera breaking and entering, you will never have any legal troubles ever again and could probably get a lot of the shit she pulled in court overturned. Or maybe one of your daughters is gay and not forthcoming about it and they were mashing cooters on your bed, which is how the dog got bypassed. But there are places you can put a hidden cam that wont violate anyone's privacy and I am fairly certain the current Mrs Cutlery is just as eager to get to the bottom of this shit as you are, so you could discuss it with her if you have concerns.

Alternatively, if your youngest has a cell device, get keylocks that integrate into an alarm system that she can use her cell phone to unlock. Honestly, I would not even live in a house without an alarm system especially if I had kids I was worried about protecting so its worth looking into.

Edit- Whatever you do, knock off the defensive routine and frame this with the fiancé as a safety concern. If this the ex trying to fuck with you, then you are only helping her out by getting defensive and not talking out your concerns. Trust is a two way street, after all.
Yeah what the fuck. How do you not put cameras up after that.
 
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Cutlery

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Yeah what the fuck. How do you not put cameras up after that.

Who said I didn't?

Way ahead of you guys. It's actually why the fiance decided to trust me on this. The obvious answer for her is that I'm fucking around on her, but she said if I volunteered (because it was my idea) to put up 8 CC cameras on the property covering every angle and entrance, with the DVR on the closet and an app on her phone, then she clearly has no reason not to believe me.
 

Cutlery

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Also, do you guys know how awesome it is to have cameras around to solve your arguments?

"Hey, have you seen this thing?"
"Nah, I don't touch it"
"I left it right here"
"LETS GO TO THE TAPE!"
 
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Captain Suave

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Who said I didn't?

It certainly seemed like you didn't, as you cited two similar mystery incidents months apart, never mentioned recordings, and quoted exchanges with the fiance that would never have existed in the presence of video.

IMO one episode of "Who the fuck was in my house?" is long past cause to lock shit down.
 

Cutlery

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It certainly seemed like you didn't, as you cited two similar mystery incidents months apart.

So, the earring - whatever. It was in the entryway, could literally have been anyone or anything.

It was the bra in my room that was the tipping point. But again, it sounds kinda fucking crazy. Between my oldest, the fiance and I, one of us is home like 22 hours a day. It's just bizarre. It was equally as likely to be my fiance doing some shit test shit as it is for this woman who had a protection order against me to be sneaking into the house to plant shit to sabotage my new relationship.

Both are extremely unlikely. Just slightly more likely than ghosts. Both options sound fucking crazy. But weirdly enough, no more crazy since the cameras went up.

Well, aside from the river otters.
 

Phazael

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His daughter could still be flap slapping a B cup on the master bedroom (which they would be strongly motivated to lie about for numerous reasons), but this whole scenario reeks of ex who is pissed you moved on pulling some shit. If you have cameras, another feminine plant item pops up, and they magically don't catch anyone, then I would start scrutinizing your kids, assuming they know about the cameras and how to turn them off. You may also want to think about if your ex has any female friends who are as batshit as she is, which is likely if she was out to the bars with her pals for years.
 

Phazael

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Both are extremely unlikely. Just slightly more likely than ghosts. Both options sound fucking crazy. But weirdly enough, no more crazy since the cameras went up.

Well, aside from the river otters.
Is there any chance the younger kid might be taking sides against you with the ex (thirteen year old being fed bullshit is going to be very easy to manipulate), because if the cams going up ended everything immediately...... well thats a lot different than whoever is sneaking around spotting them and noping out after trying some more bullshit. Instant end to shenanigans would lead me to believe someone already in the household is up to no good. If it was a shit test from the fiancé, then you definitely don't want to be defensive. But bitches be crazy and all that, so you can't rule out any possibility using reason. Cameras are the right call.
 

Phazael

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All women do shit tests. Some are just more subtle about it and some just do it as an affirmation that they picked the right guy. Like everything else its a matter of degrees. But dropping a braw to imply cheating as a shit test is definitely a red line on crazy, especially if she is aware of how bad his last relationship fucked him up.
 

Cutlery

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You do you, but if that were the case it's an automatic "Nope, have a nice life" for me. If you don't want crazy in your life, don't tolerate crazy.

We are in complete agreement, which is why Phazael Phazael thinks I was "being defensive" or whatever with the way I handled it. I was not, I was just laying the line down

She sent me a picture of an earring. I asked what it was. She asked if I knew who's it was. I said no. Then I told her "if you're gonna accuse me, do it now, cuz I'm busy"

She did not, but she had questions. Then it was the same thing with the bra. "What is this?" I dunno, not my size, not your size. I dunno what you want me to tell you. I get how this looks, but at the time I was literally working 12 hours a day 5 days a week, so when the fuck would I have time to do that?

The reason I handle it this way is in between the 2 of them, I was dating this gal for a couple months, who was honestly pretty great. She was right wing, had her finances in order, pretty good overall. The first weekend she stayed over at my place (when my kids weren't there, obviously), I let her park in the garage because it was January or something and it was cold and shitty out.

She got up Sunday morning early to go have breakfast with her dad or something, so I got up with her, and had intended on going back to bed, so I was just in shorts and walked her down to the garage door, opened it up for her, waited for her to leave and then closed it behind her and went back to bed.

I woke up and had a text from her that said "I'm really disappointed that you didn't walk me to my car." Are you fucking serious right now, or is this a joke and I gotta wait for the punchline

No, she was absolutely serious, pissed that I did not walk out into the garage and around my truck to take her to her car. IN MY FUCKING GARAGE.

I ended it same day.
 

Control

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Instant end to shenanigans would lead me to believe someone already in the household is up to no good.
Yeah, in that situation, I'd make sure to add another camera or two (or more) that no one else knows about. Also in the cars, under my hat, and where ever fucking else they might fit. Not being able to feel secure in my own house would drive me batty.
 
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Cutlery

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Is there any chance the younger kid might be taking sides against you with the ex (thirteen year old being fed bullshit is going to be very easy to manipulate), because if the cams going up ended everything immediately...... well thats a lot different than whoever is sneaking around spotting them and noping out after trying some more bullshit. Instant end to shenanigans would lead me to believe someone already in the household is up to no good. If it was a shit test from the fiancé, then you definitely don't want to be defensive. But bitches be crazy and all that, so you can't rule out any possibility using reason. Cameras are the right call.

It's entirely possible, but let's bear in mind 2 things

1 - this happened in the late part of 2020 or early part of 2021. Youngest was 9 at that point. Try as I might, I cannot imagine a 9 year old doing something like that. She doesn't have the world view to do that. Plus, she really liked my fiance at that time, because the fiance was taking her lots of places to bond, so like the water park, amusement parks, etc. I really just can't see her being the culprit.

2 - the oldest is a great kid who isn't a big fan of her mom for ruining the household. She's also pretty happy that I've got someone I get along better with. I can't see that one happening either.

But, it is very difficult to keep a 9 year old, who's getting swapped between houses from talking about what's going on at the other house. It is entirely possible the kid said something to the ex, and then the bullshit stopped.

Also, my dog died, and has since been replaced with a new one. Zelda may have let the ex pass, but this one won't.
 
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Kithani

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It's entirely possible, but let's bear in mind 2 things

1 - this happened in the late part of 2020 or early part of 2021. Youngest was 9 at that point. Try as I might, I cannot imagine a 9 year old doing something like that. She doesn't have the world view to do that. Plus, she really liked my fiance at that time, because the fiance was taking her lots of places to bond, so like the water park, amusement parks, etc. I really just can't see her being the culprit.

2 - the oldest is a great kid who isn't a big fan of her mom for ruining the household. She's also pretty happy that I've got someone I get along better with. I can't see that one happening either.

But, it is very difficult to keep a 9 year old, who's getting swapped between houses from talking about what's going on at the other house. It is entirely possible the kid said something to the ex, and then the bullshit stopped.

Also, my dog died, and has since been replaced with a new one. Zelda may have let the ex pass, but this one won't.
Have you considered the possibility that your German Shepherd is banging his side piece in your bed when you're out?

Can't believe I scrolled past so many posts and nobody even thought of this.
 
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