Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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lindz

#DDs
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Wow chaos, that's rough. Sounds like you guys need to have a really serious talk very soon. I know she's going through medical shit right now, but leaving it build up just makes it worse. Don't let it wait until the fall or you're going to end up losing it.

Kids are especially stressful during the summer and I get that some time off is definitely needed, but encourage to go take a bath with a glass of wine or something after they go to bed. My house gets a bit overwhelming in the summer since they are around making mess constantly but you just gotta keep up with it or it gets so much harder. :\


edit: It may sound silly, but I made a chore list for myself to help manage shit. I do dinner, kids and all that - but just itemizing out what day all the other stuff needs to be done besides general pickup and sticking it on my fridge so I see it everyday, was useful. I get super guilty when I ignore my list lol.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
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All that and no nookie. Fuck, any bets on who gets divorced first, Noodle or Chaos?

I genuinely feel bad for you two.
 

chaos

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I'm constantly reevaluating because I realize that a lot of time people are blind to the reality of their situation, and I try to make sure I'm not blowing it out of proportion or something. I don't know, we've talked but it always comes down to me telling her I need help, she talks about stress or whatever and I swallow my tongue and just say ok, sure, you have stress, but I still need help, you can't just check the fuck out. It gets better for like a day and then goes back to it. I really don't know what to do because I am getting to the breaking point, or I feel like I am some days. The other day i had a really stressful day with work and school and everything, and I come home and they have been out all day (spending money we agreed we wouldn't spend in order to save for preschool this fall, not a lot, but some) and the house is so bad the smell just about makes me gag when I walk in the door. Days like that are hard. I just don't know what to do. It wasn't always like this, and now it is, and it's like this is just life now. Fuck. Now I'm depressed.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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To be a completely unqualified internet psychologist it does indeed sound like she is legitimately depressed. But she's already under professional care for the anxiety. You've told us that. Fuck dude, if she's good with it and I were you I might try to convince her to see a different doctor. The one she's got is doing her no good at all, and by that failure is managing to do her harm.

It does sound like she's slowly falling the fuck apart. It's like losing weight, you know. You didn't get fat in a day you won't get thin in a day. You don't (usually) get depressed in a day either.
 

Soygen

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I can't read through 12+ pages since I've been gone. Has anything exciting happened in this thread in the last two weeks?
 

chaos

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Sounds like your wife is depressed. How long has this been going on for? Did it start around the same time the sex started dropping off?
It has been a while, I don't really know. The sex stopped almost immediately after she started taking anxiety meds, which was over 2 years ago. She sees a psychiatrist, but she just prescribes drugs and manages them, she doesn't see a therapist. She did for a while and then stopped, then after she had that meltdown on mothers day she agreed to start seeing one again, but it hasn't actually happened yet.
 

Haast

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Sounds like your wife is depressed. How long has this been going on for? Did it start around the same time the sex started dropping off?
Agreed, though I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone.

I hope she does follow through and see the counselor. It may uncover some problems that the two of you could resolve through a counselor and get things back on track. Because the situation you are describing sounds like the fast track to a blow-up & divorce, which would be especially awful with children involved.
 

TheBeagle

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This thread makes me feel alot better about hitting 40 without ever being married. I really don't want to be on my own for the rest of my life, but jesus, marriage seems so hopeless. 2 years without sex, a full time job + school and you still come home to a pig sty? I'm just not equipped to have the patience to deal with that.
 

Gravy

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It has been a while, I don't really know. The sex stopped almost immediately after she started taking anxiety meds, which was over 2 years ago. She sees a psychiatrist, but she just prescribes drugs and manages them, she doesn't see a therapist. She did for a while and then stopped, then after she had that meltdown on mothers day she agreed to start seeing one again, but it hasn't actually happened yet.
What about couples counseling? She needs to hear your concerns, and this way you make sure she goes to counseling. It might make it easier for her to go, knowing she has support with her?

I know, it's just one more thing you'd have to do during the day. Fuck, I wish I had a good answer for you, man.
 

Joeboo

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This thread makes me feel alot better about hitting 40 without ever being married. I really don't want to be on my own for the rest of my life, but jesus, marriage seems so hopeless. 2 years without sex, a full time job + school and you still come home to a pig sty? I'm just not equipped to have the patience to deal with that.
I'm not going to pretend to be some grand master on the subject, since I've only been married a little over 2 years now, but I waited until later in life(not for lack of trying though) to get married. I was 34 and my wife was 36 when we married a couple years ago, and things couldn't be better. She works full time, I work full time, she actually makes probably 10-15% more than I do, but she also works closer to 45-50 hours a week compared with my 35-40. We have a 1 year old, and everything is smooth sailing so far. The sex slowed down a little bit for a few months right around the time the baby was born because we were both exhausted all the time from lack of sleep, but things are pretty much back to normal now. The 3 of us have a lot of fun at home together, and we also have fun going out to dinner and other various activities. About the only lifestyle change is that we don't stay out too late drinking anymore, we're usually home by 10 on all but special occasions, but that's fine. I'd rather get up and be playing with my son in the morning when he's perky and full of energy than sleeping in late and nursing a hangover. I still get plenty of "me" time, we put the kid to bed by 7:30-8 and my wife and I both value our alone time and hobbies. She likes to read, knit, and watch shitty reality TV shows, I like to play video games and watch movies. There's several hours every night for each of us to do our thing. Sometimes together(TV, movies, sex) sometimes separate (her reading, me on the computer)

Marriage is great so far, but my wife and I were also plenty mature enough and pretty settled in our careers by the time we met, so neither of us expects nor wants any drastic lifestyle changes out of the other at this point in our lives. No one is still trying to "find themselves" or trying to figure out what makes them happy. That shit was sorted out a decade ago before we met, so we didn't have to go through those growing pains with each other, thankfully.
 

lindz

#DDs
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What about couples counseling? She needs to hear your concerns, and this way you make sure she goes to counseling. It might make it easier for her to go, knowing she has support with her?

I know, it's just one more thing you'd have to do during the day. Fuck, I wish I had a good answer for you, man.
Yeah I think this is a good idea at this point. You need to be able to get your point across and feel listened to and it sounds like you're going to need someone to help you with that.

Drugs are not always the best way to manage depression and she really seems to need more help than what she is getting from her psychiatrist right now.
 

Palum

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Yeah I think this is a good idea at this point. You need to be able to get your point across and feel listened to and it sounds like you're going to need someone to help you with that.

Drugs are not always the best way to manage depression and she really seems to need more help than what she is getting from her psychiatrist right now.
The problem with counseling is that the person has to want the help. It will fail 100% if Chaos goes willingly but his wife could give two shits because of whatever emotional or psychiatric reason.

Chaos, at some point you will have to be blunt. She has led you on for two years. My Dad's side of the family all suffer(ed) from terrible anxiety. I went through the same bullshit therapists and drug regimen as a young kid because it was just 'part of dealing with the problem' before anyone knew I had a problem. When I was a young teenager, during one of my 'fuck the world' type of moods I decided that it was not the path I wanted to take and ditched it. Wrong reasons, lots of fights with my parents about not seeing the therapist anymore, but good results. I pushed myself to do new things, face my fears. I still have the same feelings, but I've learned how to manage them like a normal person. It took many years, but I attribute some of that to the fact that I was growing as any person does in those years. Today, I feed off stress and adrenaline as indicators to focus and rely on confidence in my abilities instead of just letting it stop me through crippling inaction - which is exactly what they are. Markers to tell you to get your shit together because you aren't doing something easy.

There are people who truly do have legitimately severe chemical imbalance that need drugs to cope with depression or anxiety. In my experience, anecdotal though it is, the VAST majority of them are not those people. Instead, they enjoy the excuse it gives to continue acting inappropriately. Even with the drugs they practice self-defeating ways of life. They look at a long project and start crying and claiming they are too anxious instead of tearing it down to base components and getting their ass moving, one step at a time. They want help for everything. When you manage their task, they are clearly able to do the individual parts, but they will get emotional and violently angry if you share your observations that they can accomplish exactly what they said they could not. They claim to be overwhelmed by stimuli instead of simply first managing the ones they can and tuning out the ones they can't in order to focus on a task. They need to, quite simply, unfuck themselves. No amount of drugs is ever going to teach people how to actually manage the root causes that lead to anxiety or depression. They just treat the symptoms.

If you want to keep applying burn cream, keep on with drugs and therapy that she clearly isn't invested in. If you want to actually force her to learn how to handle fire, set some rules and give some ultimatums. You will have to be prepared for some serious things to happen, like the eventuality that you could divorce. Your wife very well may rely on the safety of her position to defend to herself why she doesn't need to actually work through her problems. You may have to start following through with your ultimatums to show her how serious you are and that it isn't acceptable to just give up and take drugs while lounging around lamenting about your current situation. But what you're doing right now is preemptively plugging your still living relationship into life support instead of figuring out how to treat it. I wish I could convince my father to stop coddling my brother EXACTLY like you are coddling your wife (with the exact same diagnosis). He means well, but at some point you have to pull the umbilical and help them work it out instead of just manage the net effects of their shitty life choices.

I will tell you one very real threat to your children that I saw first hand: If you do not help your wife change or remove them from her influence, they will be turned down the same road. Again, nothing to do with chemicals in the brain at all, but rather with very learned traits and reactions. They will learn to cope with stress by being angry and withdrawing, or learn to handle all problems by turning to others before even attempting to solve them themselves. They may not be able to logically connect it all, but children are not stupid. They will start to put two and two together and eventually realize that they will simply be rescued every time a challenge comes their way (like Mommy) and they will act accordingly.
 

Phazael

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Yeah, plus doctors are often happy just to toss pills at someone and collect insurance money. You need to put your foot down for the future of your kids if not for your own sake. Your wife has zero incentive to change at the moment. Free room and board and not having to put out, she is living the dream and you are enabling it, unfortunately.
 

lindz

#DDs
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The problem with counseling is that the person has to want the help. It will fail 100% if Chaos goes willingly but his wife could give two shits because of whatever emotional or psychiatric reason.
Oh I agree with you totally, but kids are a very good incentive there. If Chaos is truly worried about how this is and will effect his kids, it may help convince his wife to seek help and get better. Obviously that subject will be a touchy one to initiate, but it probably needs to be done - just very delicately.
 

BoldW

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Couples counseling could definitely help if both are interested in it. My ex/soon-to-be wanted to do couples counseling, and I probably should have, but she wasn't interested/open to changing herself. She went to several therapists herself but never lasted more than 2 sessions because she didn't like what they were saying (i.e anything against her POV/dogma/ideology and she was out). She was interested in changing me more, and not open to changing herself - that makes it tough considering I had given in to pretty much everything she wanted - which, of course, wasn't good for me. But if you can talk her in to it, do it, especially if she's against going to a therapist by herself. Just be supportive.

Meds alone just treat symptoms and don't treat the underlying issue. That's important. Just make sure your therapist/counselor is worth a damn.

I see some of the issue my sister and her man have and how it effects my nephews (especially the firstborn), and I try to be a supportive figure for him to counterbalance some of the shit he has to go through because of it. It's not easy because I don't want to "cross the line", but if you have anyone who can help with the kids through this time, that's also a huge plus.
 

chaos

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i really don't think setting ultimatums is a good idea. If she calls my bluff, then what? I can't lose my kids, so I have no real threat, and that will be that. I don't want to be adversarial either, she is my wife, we are supposed to have a life together, that is what I want. idk, it is tough. I am planning on trying to talk to her today about seeing a therapist. I am thinking one step at a time.

A lot of this is my fault. Instead of talking about things I just get super pissed off and bottle that up. Maybe if I was more open about shit it could have been headed off before it got to this point. I have tried talking to her in the past, but it usually waits until I am very frustrated with things piling on and on.
 

Deathwing

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Yeah, plus doctors are often happy just to toss pills at someone and collect insurance money. You need to put your foot down for the future of your kids if not for your own sake. Your wife has zero incentive to change at the moment. Free room and board and not having to put out, she is living the dream and you are enabling it, unfortunately.
I love how this thread has Mrs. chaos all figured out without hearing one word from her.