Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Swagdaddy

Swagdaddy

There is a war going on over control of your mind
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Tuco_sl said:
I try to avoid talking about depression because I don't know shit about it, but anytime I hear about people who fuck off all day and have no challenges in their life and get depressed I think they need to be put in a position where they have bigger problems to worry about than how they feel.
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That's exactly how I feel, after having a pretty traumatic upbringing and multiple combat deployments I'm a no news is good news kind of guy and that some people don't know what real problems are.
 
chaos

chaos

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I know EXACTLY how you feel. It isn't that you don't care, it is just frustrating to spend so much time building a career and building a life and putting more and more on you and then you try and deal with this amorphous shit like depression that you just can't understand on top of that. And you find yourself wondering why they don't just change, fuck, if you are unhappy with your life just change. Once maybe you were trying to provide opportunities and help but that got old after a while when it was just more of the same.

I've talked to people with anxiety and depression and it has helped a little. I still don't understand it, and I don't have the energy to motivate her on top of what I have to do. I don't have any answers. Sorry. But I totally get it.

My main focus right now is to just try and shield my kids from it. As much as I can anyway.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
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Tuco_sl said:
I try to avoid talking about depression because I don't know shit about it, but anytime I hear about people who fuck off all day and have no challenges in their life and get depressed I think they need to be put in a position where they have bigger problems to worry about than how they feel.
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Unfortunately I see a lot of people in this situation come to the brilliant conclusion of let's have a baby .... I want to punch those people.
 
Swagdaddy

Swagdaddy

There is a war going on over control of your mind
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chaos_sl said:
I know EXACTLY how you feel. It isn't that you don't care, it is just frustrating to spend so much time building a career and building a life and putting more and more on you and then you try and deal with this amorphous shit like depression that you just can't understand on top of that. And you find yourself wondering why they don't just change, fuck, if you are unhappy with your life just change. Once maybe you were trying to provide opportunities and help but that got old after a while when it was just more of the same.

I've talked to people with anxiety and depression and it has helped a little. I still don't understand it, and I don't have the energy to motivate her on top of what I have to do. I don't have any answers. Sorry. But I totally get it.

My main focus right now is to just try and shield my kids from it. As much as I can anyway.
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Yeah I think were in the same territory my internet friend, but I'm afraid the road eventually leads to "Am I willing to sacrifice my entire life for this person?" right now I'd say yes but the more years that go by I start to wonder if this person deserves that kind of commitment when they can't even bother to not be a douche on a somewhat consistent basis.
 
chaos

chaos

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Swagdaddy_sl said:
Yeah I think were in the same territory my internet friend, but I'm afraid the road eventually leads to "Am I willing to sacrifice my entire life for this person?" right now I'd say yes but the more years that go by I start to wonder if this person deserves that kind of commitment when they can't even bother to not be a douche on a somewhat consistent basis.
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Yeah, I get that. I think about that all the time. But I keep thinking "Maybe she just needs ..." whatever and when she gets whatever it is it will get better. And then there are the kids, if something happens between us I lose them, maybe forever since her family is all back in Florida. And I want them to have it all, you know, I want them to have a happy family, a happy mom who is fulfilled and a good role model. Shit man, there is no easy road.
 
D

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Kirun_sl said:
See, this is another area where I vehemently disagree with Rollo. Do women have a higher propensity to love opportunistically? Yeah, perhaps, but let's not pretend like men wouldn't also do the same if presented the opportunity. We certainly tend to seek/have sex opportunistically. Men just tend to be offered that position a whole lot less frequently. No man among us wouldn't jump at the opportunity to be Oprah's house husband, let's be honest.

EDIT : Hell, look at guys like Khane and Frenzied Wombat. They've both said that a woman who isn't "career eatablished " is typically a no. That's a pretty prime example of conditional love.
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I think you're misunderstanding the point a little. The point isn't what men and woman could get away with (e..g, marry up or cheat), butwhereorhowthe feeling of love itself is generated for each gender. Both men and women require physical attraction, but the birthplace of the feeling, the generation of it, is rooted in a kind of opportunism for women through the dominant behavior traits seen as attractive in men. Once a guy sees a very hot girl, that's it; it's done - the idealism wheel in his mind sparks all kinds of emotions and false ideas about this woman - and he falls in love. But a woman is different: she has to interact, has to see how he behaves in a social setting, his personal attitude, etc - that is, his level of charisma and confidence (or classically, overt dominance). That triggers the idealism wheel for her, his behavior and attitude, and that is the opportunistic nature of love Rollo refers to (and again, it's not a quality judgement of good or bad, even though reading it sounds so on its face).

ps, And they're lying. If a broke, no-career HB9 came and offered herself up to them, they would lap it up. And likely try to keep it, depending on their smv options.
 
Swagdaddy

Swagdaddy

There is a war going on over control of your mind
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chaos_sl said:
Yeah, I get that. I think about that all the time. But I keep thinking "Maybe she just needs ..." whatever and when she gets whatever it is it will get better. And then there are the kids, if something happens between us I lose them, maybe forever since her family is all back in Florida. And I want them to have it all, you know, I want them to have a happy family, a happy mom who is fulfilled and a good role model. Shit man, there is no easy road.
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Just getting tired of being a serial martyr dude

*Doing my best 3 y/o voice impression* "IT'S NOT FAIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
 
D

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Roosh had a money quote recently. Modern dating in America, tl;dr version

Roosh_sl said:
It's clear to me that the compliment is officially dead. Modern interactions are devolving into something like a freestyle rap battle that ends with rough sex. In fact, the best way to judge how well you're doing is when a girl insults you and then smiles. Keep up the banter and invite her to your place while disingenuously telling her that you don't want to have sex with her because her hair color is wrong or due to some other trivial flaw.
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D

Dabamf_sl

shitlord
1,472
0
Re: swag and chaos

Can you understand what it's like to hear voices, or have uncontrollable urges to twitch every few seconds (tic disorder / tourettes), feel the need to lock and unlock the door 5 times every time (OCD), pull your hair out compulsively (trichotilomania), or feel like the world is crumbling around you and every terrible thing in the world is about to happen at once (panic attack)? Why don't you think those are bullshit?

Depression is no different from any of those. It seems different because it is closer to normal human experience than the others. There is also an entire field that studies it, people base their research careers on it, etc. These people aren't just saying "OK people say depression is real, let me base my whole life on it without question."

Also, the "just get out and do something/change your life" is exactly what the most empirically supported treatment does. It's called behavioral activation. The goal is to modify behaviors, with the idea that thoughts and feelings will follow. It's very effective at treating depression, but since depression makes you not want to do those things, it's a challenge still. The other challenge is for those more susceptible to depression. Ever had a really shitty day and you just wanted to withdraw from the world? It was probably a bunch of stuff going wrong in one day, right? Why can't you handle twice as much? Of course you can't. It's like saying why can't you do another rep in the gym once you're exhausted. Well other people have what seems like a hair trigger that makes them feel that way after just a little. Some people feel really down without explanation. These differences can be observed in the brain with imaging technology.

Your brain all boils down to a series of chemical interactions and electrical signals. There is no "will" function in the brain.
 
Phazael

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
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I think the core problem is Swag got hitched so young. People don't even know who the fuck they are until late 20s at the earliest. It sounds like you grew and she stayed put. And yeah, what a_skeleton_03 said: Do NOT have a kid until this shit is worked out somehow. I think she needs to get help (assuming the depression is real and not the daddy's princess' life didn't work out she planned sort of thing) if you want to keep this woman. Living in that situation at your age is a recipe for resentment and cratering later in life.
 
T

The Master

Bronze Squire
2,084
2
BrotherWu_sl said:
Incidentally, is there an evolutionary basis for the male drive being higher and declining later and at a slower rate? Is there one? Is it partially cultural? The only thing I can think of is that, from the female view, perhaps too many offspring would put those that had lived to the current moment at risk of not receiving enough resources.
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Coolidge effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Men, as a rule, don't actually drop off in terms of sex drive (until you get old enough that testosterone levels start dropping, which doesn't even happen to all men). Monogamy kills the male sex drive. Ever hear a guy in his, oh, say, 40s say "I haven't felt like this in years" because he meets a new woman and starts having an affair? That is literally true, because odds are the last time he felt that way was when he met his wife but wasn't yet monogamous with her. The "mid-life crisis." It is a stereotype for a reason. So, yes, it is partially cultural... non-monogamous cultures have no drop off at all.
 
Alex

Alex

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chaos_sl said:
Yeah, I get that. I think about that all the time. But I keep thinking "Maybe she just needs ..." whatever and when she gets whatever it is it will get better. And then there are the kids, if something happens between us I lose them, maybe forever since her family is all back in Florida. And I want them to have it all, you know, I want them to have a happy family, a happy mom who is fulfilled and a good role model. Shit man, there is no easy road.
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I'm not married and I don't have kids. So you can easily tell me to fuck off. But if your wife is a downer and both of you are unhappy, your kids will absolutely pick up on that and it would probably be worse than if you two weren't together any more. From a completely anecdotal experience, I have a childhood friend who's parents stayed together for the kids and it was obvious. Going to their house sucked. You just felt it in the air - even as a child I felt it. Another friend's parents got divorced at a young age and by the time we were in middle school, the parents had a great relationship with each other. It didn't seem weird at all even though he was one of the only friends I had with divorced parents.
 
iannis

iannis

Musty Nester
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Unconditional love does exist but it probably shouldn't be applied to spouses.

Children, Cheese, Dogs, and God. These are the things we can safely love without condition. Unless you're making a bid for Saint. The traditional marriage vows themselves (which I'm sure few people use anymore) set conditions.
 
Daelos

Daelos

Guarding the guardians
219
58
Tuco_sl said:
I don't want to pick at old wounds, but what do you think caused her to stop being attracted to you?
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I don't know for sure. It's been a while since I thought about it, but at the time this is the most likely scenario that I found:
We met young. 18/19 y.o. I was fairly inexperienced, she was completely inexperienced. We grew close almost instantly. It was pretty much your story-book relationship. We matched well in most areas. We had some similar interests, and we both did stuff with other people. She was timid and shy, and depended on me for emotional rock-ness as well as financial stuff. But I never minded, because she was (and is, and always has been) a very much drama free lady, and it was always possible to speak to her using logic. With time, we got married. Had kids. She finished her degree, and started working. Slowly, she grew up to seek more independence. She was no longer depending on my company for adult conversation, and she was no longer as shy and introverted. At the time (and still); I thought it was great. Towards her late 20's and early 30's she grew as a person. Sort of... filling in the gaps, with more good stuff.
I don't know if she just plain grew bored with me. But I think it had a lot to do with familiarity, and getting tired of all the little things that annoyed her about me. At the same time, she was never that mature. She didn't commit to fight for the relationship like I would have, but as her feelings waned she never brought it up with me. ...


chaos_sl said:
I find it hard to believe that there were no red flags, more likely that you missed what red flags were there. I guess it is possible, shit happens.

In my experience,t here is more to it than attraction. I'm attracted to a lot of women, acting on that is a whole other thing.
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...and really. There were no red flags. I'm pretty good at observing my own situation from the outside, and I puta lotof thinking into what transpired, but there really wasn't. We had sex pretty much every day for 12 years. We had sex the morning of the day that we split - and at that point, I thought we were good. We had a fairly ordinary "boring" life with kids, and kindergarten, and school, and work. Some minor financial issues. But we faced everything together, and I honestly looked forward to every day with her and the kids. We hardly ever fought, and when we did we were good at ending the fights properly.

As for attraction: Yeah, attraction is notsufficientfor a relationship to begin or continue. But it is anecessarycomponent. Do you disagree?


Note that... this is all stuff I put together in my thoughts shortly after she left. It's probably coloured by emotions as much as rational thought. I never really went into this with her. She told me she was no longer in love with me, and that was that as far as I was concerned. I told her that we owed our kids that we try to figure shit out before we split up the family, but that was until I discovered the other man involved. After that point, I didn't want her.
 
D

Dabamf_sl

shitlord
1,472
0
I must have missed something - swag your wife stays at home yet you don't have kids? She has no purpose in life. Of course she's depressed. Get her in school or working. It's like saying "oh my leg hurts" and there's a god damn arrow sticking out of it.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Daelos_sl said:
I don't know for sure. It's been a while since I thought about it, but at the time this is the most likely scenario that I found:
We met young. 18/19 y.o. I was fairly inexperienced, she was completely inexperienced. We grew close almost instantly. It was pretty much your story-book relationship. We matched well in most areas. We had some similar interests, and we both did stuff with other people. She was timid and shy, and depended on me for emotional rock-ness as well as financial stuff. But I never minded, because she was (and is, and always has been) a very much drama free lady, and it was always possible to speak to her using logic. With time, we got married. Had kids. She finished her degree, and started working. Slowly, she grew up to seek more independence. She was no longer depending on my company for adult conversation, and she was no longer as shy and introverted. At the time (and still); I thought it was great. Towards her late 20's and early 30's she grew as a person. Sort of... filling in the gaps, with more good stuff.
I don't know if she just plain grew bored with me. But I think it had a lot to do with familiarity, and getting tired of all the little things that annoyed her about me. At the same time, she was never that mature. She didn't commit to fight for the relationship like I would have, but as her feelings waned she never brought it up with me. ...




...and really. There were no red flags. I'm pretty good at observing my own situation from the outside, and I puta lotof thinking into what transpired, but there really wasn't. We had sex pretty much every day for 12 years. We had sex the morning of the day that we split - and at that point, I thought we were good. We had a fairly ordinary "boring" life with kids, and kindergarten, and school, and work. Some minor financial issues. But we faced everything together, and I honestly looked forward to every day with her and the kids. We hardly ever fought, and when we did we were good at ending the fights properly.

As for attraction: Yeah, attraction is notsufficientfor a relationship to begin or continue. But it is anecessarycomponent. Do you disagree?


Note that... this is all stuff I put together in my thoughts shortly after she left. It's probably coloured by emotions as much as rational thought. I never really went into this with her. She told me she was no longer in love with me, and that was that as far as I was concerned. I told her that we owed our kids that we try to figure shit out before we split up the family, but that was until I discovered the other man involved. After that point, I didn't want her.
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That sucks although it seems to be the typical course of events for those who started out when they were young (teenagers/high school love) get married and then get divorced. It just always seems there is always going to be a least a 50% chance (probably more) that at least one party in the relationship is going to come into a 'grown up' moment and take measure as what their life is and if they are truly happy in the situation that they are in. This is to be expected, one's life at 18 is vastly different than at 30 and it is not uncommon (dare I say almost normal) for someone to realize this wasn't the plan they had for where they wanted to be at 30, for whatever the reason.

It's good for you that it ended when it did, even though you have kids. The worst kind of situation would be if she's just going through the motions with you, even if their isn't any other guy involved.
 
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