Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
The guy happily married in the marriage thread compared to the guy who gets bored with every woman he dates or dumps them because they aren't into group sex or open relationships or some other obstacle of his.

The guy that has a relationship compared to the guy who just has sex only.

You are trying to give advice to Ameraves when it doesn't look like you even know what a relationship looks like let alone a multi year marriage with kids. All you care about is that Ameraves foolishly wants his wife to not cheat on him sexually when there is so much more to the story and to any marriage. You sit there and pass down judgement on the reasons why women have sex and how they all just want the same thing when I know that you and I have sex for entirely different reasons. You complained about the semantics of acceptance and used it for some vague proof that all relationships come down to that. Your stance that "feels good" is the reason for sex is beyond simplistic.
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Haha what? You're like a walking, talking caricature.

You have sex for reasons other than it feels good? It feels good, that's why we want to have sex. It's why sex sells. It fucking feels amazing. It's emotional and physical and delightful. It's not my fault you can't read. All aspects of it relay into that feeling of elation. Sex isn't satisfying unless it feels good.

Hoss' first assertion was that men don't care about emotional attachment during sex. I refuted that, men can have just as strong an emotional attachment during sex as women. He then claimed women are nothing but emotional retards, even in casual sex scenarios, so sex is way different for them. Again, that's ridiculous.

All I said was men and women aren't very different when it comes what we feel during sex. The difference lies mainly in how much security we need to feel before we engage in it (in the case of casual sex) and how cliche and shallow that "security" actually is. And you spin it into some deviant version of what I was actually saying where I'm a swinger who can only get off in an orgy.

I love how you treat every man who hasn't gotten married and had kids as a failure. That is how you stack your accomplishments in life up huh? That's it for you?
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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What other reasons are there to having sex other than it feels good on an emotional and physical level? I mean unless you are a strait up prude and see it only as a tool for reproduction...I don't get how it's even a discussion.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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Khane, seriously, you are sounding more and more like a 20 year old who is ruled by his dick. If you seriously believe that the average man feels about sex the same way that an average woman does, then we are basically at an impasse here. I hate to admit it, but I agree with a_skeleton_03 here. Guys who sabotage their own relationships with open relationship talk are not the ones I feel are credible giving advice to married men.
 
Khane

Khane

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Phazael_sl said:
Khane, seriously, you are sounding more and more like a 20 year old who is ruled by his dick. If you seriously believe that the average man feels about sex the same way that an average woman does, then we are basically at an impasse here. I hate to admit it, but I agree with a_skeleton_03 here. Guys who sabotage their own relationships with open relationship talk are not the ones I feel are credible giving advice to married men.
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You're right, you've evolved far more than I have. I am clearly a slave to my own testosterone and need to assert my dominance via my cock. Actually that's what you and a_skeleton_03 and Hoss sound like. You can't wrap your head around the fact that women don't need you to love and hold and whisper sweet nothings in their ear, assuring them everything is alright, to enjoy having sex. Your fragile ego can't take the possibility that they are just as physically stimulated as men are. You need to feel like they NEED you and they can't live without you.

You say I'm immature? Sounds like you're the ones who need to grow up.

Don't you worry your pretty little head darlin'.

"Oh shit boys, I knew I shouldn't have dicked her so good. Now the bitch is in love with me. Won't stop callin my phone"
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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I'm glad to see people coming around to what I said weeks ago which is that Khane speaks as if he's an authority on human relations while being a complete disaster at them in real life.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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BrutulTM_sl said:
I'm glad to see people coming around to what I said weeks ago which is that Khane speaks as if he's an authority on human relations while being a complete disaster at them in real life.
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This thread would be really boring and would have ended ages ago if people didn't have varying opinions.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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Its not about evolution and its not meant to be mean or insulting. I was you (a fatter, less successful version, I am sure) at one point and I know what my opinions were at that point in my life. I might not be right now, but I sure as hell know I was wrong about tons of shit back at that point. The fact that you are lashing out with the I'm rubber you're glue defense confirms it, in my mind. And you even followed it up with a flippant non sequitor to give the appearance of not giving a shit. I understand these things because I lived them, myself.

But as yourself this objectively:
If you were seeking advice or even just shared experiences about marriage who's advice would you take?
A) The guys who are happily married for more than a decade who enjoy where they are in life?
B) The guy who derailed a well functioning relationship out of boredom by springing "open relationship" talk on his significant other?

You don't have to answer that in the thread, the question is purely rhetorical and intended for self reflection. The fact is if some of us are critical of you it is because we have made those mistakes and it hurts to see someone else making the same unforced errors.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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Tarrant_sl said:
What other reasons are there to having sex other than it feels good on an emotional and physical level? I mean unless you are a strait up prude and see it only as a tool for reproduction...I don't get how it's even a discussion.
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Have you ever had sex where it didn't feel good? Has your wife do you think? Maybe even unpleasant but you did it anyways?

It is a bond between people and can be done when it doesn't feel good just because you want the other person to feel good. Because you care about them. Because you love them enough to be there with them. It is by no means the only aspect of the cheating like Khane is stating.

Khane says - she cheated on you to have good sex, it's that simple, there can't be other reasons. She could "feel good" with a vibrator but that would be too easy, instead she is going to cheat on her husband with a dude she knows he despises. She is going to potentially ruin her family and split them up even with kids just to "feel good". She doesn't have any emotions attached to the other man she has said I love you to at all, just wants to fuck and "feel good". His solution is to have an open relationship ....

Sex does feel good but it isn't just the act of it. There are a lot of other variables. There is a vulnerability to it, a currency to it, a statement because of it, tons of issues other than "feels good".

I don't treat every man who isn't married with or without kids as a failure. You however strut around this thread like the new messiah of sex and open relationships for quite a while now. You have failed every relationship you have been in. Every single one. Ameraves here has succeeded for quite a few years and thought he was done, retired the jersey in a ceremony, the game was over. Now it looks like he might have failed this relationship because of issues we can only guess at that have a physical manifestation of his wife being attracted to and pursuing another man and it sucks. It isn't just about sex though because that is the problem you keep having.

I get a lot of sex at home. I don't feel like I get enough even though I know it's a lot more than most people I know. We pretty much do 4 nights a week on average. After 15 years that is pretty good. Now I want more and I always have. There are options. I could cheat on her and find sex elsewhere because I want to "feel good" or I could choose to have control over my dick and not cheat and just jerk off when I feel like it. I then turn that into feeling good about our relationship which is so much more than sex. You and I are different though, I date my wife for over two years without having sex with her because a relationship is not about whether or not she makes me cum because a man could do that, I can do that, a flesh light can, etc...
 
Khane

Khane

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Phazael_sl said:
Its not about evolution and its not meant to be mean or insulting. I was you (a fatter, less successful version, I am sure) at one point and I know what my opinions were at that point in my life. I might not be right now, but I sure as hell know I was wrong about tons of shit back at that point. The fact that you are lashing out with the you're rubber I am glue defense confirms it, in my mind. And you even followed it up with a flippant non sequitor to give the appearance of not giving a shit. I understand these things because I lived them, myself.

But as yourself this objectively:
If you were seeking advice or even just shared experiences about marriage who's advice would you take?
A) The guys who are happily married for more than a decade who enjoy where they are in life?
B) The guy who derailed a well functioning relationship out of boredom by springing "open relationship" talk on his significant other?

You don't have to answer that in the thread, the question is purely rhetorical and intended for self reflection. The fact is if some of us are critical of you it is because we have made those mistakes and it hurts to see someone else making the same unforced errors.
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I'm not offering advice. I'm debating.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the very first statement I made in this argument was that men are equally as able of having an emotional connection to their sexual partner, even early on, as women. And that women aren't immediately emotionally dependent on their sexual partners and can and do have purely physical relationships with men. I am actually dumbfounded that some of you are so deeply affected by antiquated social constructs as to argue that point.

I never said men just need some pussy, fuck relationships. I don't even understand where that idea is coming from. I've NEVER said anything like that. I was even arguing against it.

This is what started the argument:

Hoss_sl said:
Bitches have trouble separating feelings from sex. If you were going to do an open relationship, she would have to retrain herself on that front.
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This was my simple response:

Men have trouble with that too.
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This was his rebuttal:

Hoss_sl said:
Unless you think 'lying about to get in their pants' is 'having trouble separating love and sex', I don't really think really think its a widespread problem amongst the dick wielding community.

For example, do you really think sleazeball fuckface loves Amny's wife? If you do, you're as dumb as a girl.
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And you're sitting here arguing FOR him. I wonder if any of you actually even read what some people here write or if you just go "HERP DERP IT'S SO AND SO. HE ISN'T MARRIED SO HE'S FUCKING STUPID".
 
Khane

Khane

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
It is a bond between people and can be done when it doesn't feel good just because you want the other person to feel good. Because you care about them. Because you love them enough to be there with them. It is by no means the only aspect of the cheating like Khane is stating.

Khane says - she cheated on you to have good sex, it's that simple, there can't be other reasons. She could "feel good" with a vibrator but that would be too easy, instead she is going to cheat on her husband with a dude she knows he despises. She is going to potentially ruin her family and split them up even with kids just to "feel good". She doesn't have any emotions attached to the other man she has said I love you to at all, just wants to fuck and "feel good". His solution is to have an open relationship ....

Sex does feel good but it isn't just the act of it. There are a lot of other variables. There is a vulnerability to it, a currency to it, a statement because of it, tons of issues other than "feels good".
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Never once did I make a claim on why women cheat. In fact, the conversation isn't even about cheating. It's about sexual desire. It's clear none of you have actually been following the conversation I've been trying to have. See my post above for the point I am arguing.

It got intertwined with the Ameraves' stuff but I was never actually talking in regards to Ameraves' situation. I suppose it can't be helped that people think I was given the surrounding context.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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Khane_sl said:
You can't wrap your head around the fact that women don't need you to love and hold and whisper sweet nothings in their ear, assuring them everything is alright, to enjoy having sex. Your fragile ego can't take the possibility that they are just as physically stimulated as men are. You need to feel like they NEED you and they can't live without you.
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Women don't need that to enjoy having sex, you are missing the point. Women will fuck a chunk of rubber or sit on a dryer corner to get off. They don't even need our cock not to mention our sweet nothings in their ear.

We aren't talking about sex, we are talking about a relationship failing with the indicator being her making a statement in her head via sex with a different man. It isn't about the sex because she didn't need Fuckface to get off. She can already do that solo. She wanted a different man as more than just a sex tool. It is about the relationship which you can't even understand if it doesn't have to do with sex. If my dick was chopped off tomorrow in a crazy parasailing accident where the harness ripped it off my wife and I would still have an amazing marriage/relationship. Our marriage isn't centered around sex, it is based on communication, respect, shared interests, love, crazy things like that. Could she get frustrated about never feeling my muscular body on top of her thrusting away? Sure. She would then *gasp* talk to me about it and maybe we would explore an open relationship or find tools to help. She wouldn't cheat on me with some guy I think is disgusting, UNLESS it isn't about the sex at all but about some problem in the relationship .....
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Khane is doing a pretty good job of showing how idealistic most men are. I'd argue that women are probably even better at separating emotion from sex than most men are.

Edit: Also, a_skeleton_03 has a lot of insight into women and their sexual desires, seeing as he's been withonethroughout the entirety of his life. It's hard to argue with a sample size of that magnitude.
 
Khane

Khane

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Guess what, being a grown up can be boring like having sex with only one person you love and have kids with ....
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Because that's the only way to be a decent human being right? If you have sex with more than one person or decide that children aren't what you want you should be admonished as a terrible human being and removed from every conversation about relationships because there is only one way for men and women to interact.

P.S. There are married people here who have chosen not to have kids. Perhaps their opinions don't count as well? There is also at least one married person here who has an open marriage.
 
Blazin

Blazin

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I would say the primary reason I have sex with my wife is because it gives me a stronger feeling of emotional intimacy. We have a stronger relationship from doing it and as long as that was the result I would do it even if there was no physical gratification from it.

I think it's good to have different opinions in the thread, and I'm obviously biased towards my own position, but people in multi decade marriages with stable and healthy homes are the go to people for relationship device. Anyone who accomplishes that has above average relationship communications skills. Now those same people, like myself are completely useless for advice on courting and dating. It does sometimes feel the daters and people with failed marriages believe they are experts in both spectrum when evidence points to the contrary.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Blazin_sl said:
I would say the primary reason I have sex with my wife is because it gives me a stronger feeling of emotional intimacy. We have a stronger relationship from doing it and as long as that was the result I would do it even if there was no physical gratification from it.

I think it's good to have different opinions in the thread, and I'm obviously biased towards my own position, but people in multi decade marriages with stable and healthy homes are the go to people for relationship device. Anyone who accomplishes that has above average relationship communications skills. Now those same people, like myself are completely useless for advice on courting and dating. It does sometimes feel the daters and people with failed marriages believe they are experts in both spectrum when evidence points to the contrary.
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I just don't get it, you're agreeing with my original point, that men are capable of emotional intimacy and that it can be a driving contributor to sexual desire for them. And yet also browbeating me as being a know-it-all?

And through none of this have I talked about successful relationships. Simply sexual desire which isn't as different between the sexes as most people typically believe.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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Khane_sl said:
Because that's the only way to be a decent human being right? If you have sex with more than one person or decide that children aren't what you want you should be admonished as a terrible human being and removed from every conversation about relationships because there is only one way for men and women to interact.

P.S. There are married people here who have chosen not to have kids. Perhaps their opinions don't count as well? There is also at least one married person here who has an open marriage.
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Not at all, point out me saying that. The point is you don't know all about a relationship, just like those of us married do not. The weight of what we have to say 'might' matter more though about a marriage considering we are in one. Those of us with kids 'might' have better opinions on how he kids in this situation will be affected. You didn't read what I said in the thread before about open marriage. It isn't the absolute worst advice. It is an option. What is the key parts of a successful open marriage though? You always come back to your spouse, and it isn't a knee jerk reaction because of previous cheating but a decision made proactively because that is how you approach ONE aspect of marriage. You use it as the solution to all and can't wrap your head around the other issues in a marriage. Your entire relationship advice is wrapped up around sex and that's it.

Were you admonished as a terrible human being? No. Defensive much?

You were told that your advice has little merit in this situation because it isn't really about sex and to stop pretending to be an expert on relationships since you can't seem to be in one for long without sabotaging it.
 
Blazin

Blazin

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Kirun_sl said:
Edit: Also, a_skeleton_03 has a lot of insight into women and their sexual desires, seeing as he's been withonethroughout the entirety of his life. It's hard to argue with a sample size of that magnitude.
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He may not be an authority on all womanhood it's probably more accurate to say he has more experience than many in living with another person for a long period of time and sharing a life, which as this thread shows is not very easy to do. It's rather difficult, we are selfish by nature and successful monogamy is rather incongruent to many of our base desires and is probably not the right choice for everyone.

When reading threads like this one, whether you put more weight with a_skeleton_03 or Khane should be more about what your goals for relationships are. If I was single and looking to get laid I'd probably lean towards Khane, if I'm struggling with some of the challenges of long term monogamy a_skeleton_03 may be more helpful. Why does one have to be all right or wrong?
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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Khane_sl said:
I just don't get it, you're agreeing with my original point, that men are capable of emotional intimacy and that it can be a driving contributor to sexual desire for them. And yet also browbeating me as being a know-it-all?

And through none of this have I talked about successful relationships. Simply sexual desire which isn't as different between the sexes as most people typically believe.
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"Simple sexual desires" about somebody else resulting in Facebook and text messages is not simple.... You still don't get that this isn't about sex, like at all. Not in the slightest.
 
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