Marriage and the Power of Divorce

opiate82 · Apr 7, 2015

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Yes, I want a kid, though it's becoming less realistic by the day at my age (42 next month). I would be ok if she wanted to take a year off while it's a baby, but beyond that I would much prefer if we got a nanny or live-in maid to take care of the kids. Having grown up with two stay at home moms (mom and stepmom) nothing in this world will convince me that it leads to a stable and happy marriage, nor that it's a "job" that will make her happy. In fact, it was only once my mom got divorced and started her own business that she finally became happy and fulfilled. Every stay at home wife I know just bitches endlessly about her life-- no thanks. It's also a matter of risk aversion-- two salaries are safer than one. Two available health insurance providers is better than one. Shit happens, and I'd prefer not to be one pink slip away from financial ruin.

My experience with (basically) a stay-at-home mom was quite the opposite of yours, but a big difference might be my Dad was also around a lot (worked at home a lot). My Mom is also very good at finding productive and fulfilling uses of her time that aren't necessarily tied to employment or career as well. I completely understand how ones life experiences influence their expectations though. I'm most definitely not calling my way right or your (desired) way wrong.

My wife is an RN and the fact that she was driven enough to do that was something that for sure attracted me to her. I do, however, always want a parent around with my kid(s). Thankfully she only needs to work part time and I am my own boss and work mostly from home so we always have a parent with our daughter. I would like to get to the point where she doesn't have to work and can be with the kids full time but I'm not willing to sacrifice my current circumstance and the flexibility, freedom, and time available for my kid(s) in order to make that happen for her. I don't know if I personally would not be okay even with a live-in nanny/maid doing a chunk of the child-raising for us. Again, not judging, just saying.

Larnix · Apr 7, 2015

When I first met my wife I made more than twice as much as she did however about a year later she landed a great job overseas in Germany and asked if I wanted to come along even though there were really no job opportunities for me there. After about 7 months of being unemployed I finally found a job making much less that what I was but at least it was something.

Fast forward 5 years later and we have our first child and I have a chance to move down to part-time working 4hours each evening 7pm-11pm. This works great because we actually save more money now because we are not paying for 40+ hours a week of childcare, our evening time is spent better because neither of us now has to rush to get our child and figure out dinner plans, plus I still get to get away a few hours everyday. Our second child will be a month old tomorrow and I am sure the job ahead of me will be quite tough.

Having had the chance to spend so much time with my son has been a real eye opener for me. He is 2 now and goes to daycare for 4 hours in the morning, I normally cant get his coat off quick enough for him to go play with the other kids. They grow up so fast and quickly will be in school full time with plenty of other obligations so why not try spend some time with them. As a friend always says he would rather fuck his kids up than pay someone else to do it.

Edit..

I don't believe that there is a real need for stay at home parents once the children are going to school full time. I think it just becomes a crutch for many stay at home parents because they are afraid or unable to get back in the workforce. While we don't qualify Germany has a great program that allows either parent to stay home for the first 3 years and still collect money and they their position must be held for them while they are out. Then you dont have to chose career or family

Ortega · Apr 7, 2015

Khane_sl said:
See that's the thing. It will absolutely influence and affect my happiness having a mate who understands where I am coming from financially. If she makes no money at all and is a stay at home mother but values the same things I do financially then that will work, if she makes 300k/year but is completely irresponsible with her money it won't. The problem is the vast majority of Americans (not just women) live to work and not the other way around. The more money they make the more money they spend. I am not like that nor am I cool with it. So a woman who is fiscally irresponsible is an immediate no for me. Huge turnoff. I make it sound like how much money she makes is a deal breaker just because it's easier to convey how I feel that way. Mostly because women who don't make money aren't fiscally responsible simply because that's not what popular culture enforces (for the most part). I don't care if you don't like generalizations or social bias. You're being naive if you think those generalizations or bias don't come from an overwhelming majority of our society fitting neatly into them.

I agree with you that finding someone financially compatible in the sense that they don't spend all your money is fairly important, but again you're making this out to be more than it is. Yes there are a lot of women who spend their men into bankruptcy, and I would go one step further and say nearly all women have the tendency to spend to much, however in every instance that a women has spent all her mans money the man has never communicated/fought the issue. Sure I occasionally reign in my wife when she spends to much on trash we will never use, but I tend to think I do it in a constructive way and explain that all spending means waiting longer to have kids, longer to get a newer nicer house, or less vacations. She then connects the dots and goes huh gee I guess I don't need decoration number #5000 no matter how cute it might be in her mind. Where as you have people like my previous boss who let his wife do whatever she wanted with his six figure salary and even went so far as giving him an allowance from his own salary after twenty years of marriage. He put himself in that position by not taking a stand day one, and while it's nice to think a women should be able to figure that shit out on their own I just don't believe the majority of them are capable of that.

For all intents and purposes, and I mean this with no disrespect you sound like you want a dude who you can fuck. That's great, and all but again not realistic. You have me totally wrong in that you think I'm against generalizations and biases. I am 100% with you. I think women have a total lack of foresight, and are extremely impulsive. They rarely function with logic (at least not immediately), and can at times be very selfish (the videogame nagging after hours of reality TV/cuddling comes to mind), but to me these are realities you need to accept. Those generalizations as you said yourself exist for a reason, so do yourself a favor and find someone who you can communicate with and who can meet you in the middle on most issues, and compromise with you.

Hoss · Apr 7, 2015

Tenks_sl said:
I always liked first dates even if they didn't work out well. I'm not a very social person in large groups but can do well 1-on-1 so it allowed me to be easily social. I'm not saying they all went swimmingly

I'm with you there, I actually liked first dates. In fact, I'd say my favorite (sexless) date of all time was a first date that was a complete disaster. I can't even remember what was wrong, but we figured out in the first 10 minutes that we weren't compatible. We were both reasonable and polite human beings, so we decided to carry on. It actually turned out to be a lot of fun for both of us because we constantly made jokes about how terrible the matchup was. Not so much fun that we wanted to go out again or anything. Good times.

DickTrickle_sl said:
When I was on dating sites, I saw numerous mentions of height being a deal-breaker (often in the form of you must be taller than me, though sometimes it was just you must be at least X height). And I think the people I was looking at are a little less likely to be predisposed to that, so it's probably more pronounced than that.

I ran into that a couple times too. I measured myself and listed my height as 5'10". Then I met a girl online and she was a stickler for height. We made a date but before we met, we were talking on the phone getting along really well when she started asking about the height again. Apparently 5'10" was her absolute minimum and she was sick of guys lying on their profile. So after asking me 5 or 6 times, I was like, OK hang on I'll measure myself again right now. I was only 5'9.25". I swore to her I wasn't lying and that I measured myself at 5'10" when I made the profile but she was like "Sorry ..." click

I felt like I dodged a bullet there. Best I can figure is that girls want a guy to still be taller than them when they're wearing heels. I get that, I know I still wanna be taller, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker to a normal human being. I try to forbid my wife from wearing heels cause I've only got an inch on her as it is. I try. She wore like 6" heels to the wedding. I had to jump to lift her veil over her head. 6" may be an exaggeration, but they were tall and her hair was up, so I'm sure it added up to at least 6 inches.

stupidmonkey · Apr 7, 2015

Cad_sl said:
Honestly, do I discount how much height matters? When I read this I was like like, hey I'm 6'2.. but having never been shorter since I was 14-15, is this really a big deal? Do short guys envy taller guys that much? Does being tall make my life that much easier?

I have seen many profiles, not just on tinder, that state I will not date anyone shorter than 6' 4" so don't bother messaging me. Most women who say this are around 5'6". You have basically just limited yourself to like .5% of the population so good luck with all of that but this is the mindset for a lot of people now from my observations.

Soygen_sl said:
At 160k a year, you're in the top 5% of income earners in the country. If your expectation is someone making even close to that, your options are severely limited. I'm not saying you should lower your standards, but if you aren't happy with your results...

^ and this is the equivelant to me on the guys side. We all can't be in the top .1% of everything.

Tenks · Apr 7, 2015

Hoss_sl said:
I ran into that a couple times too. I measured myself and listed my height as 5'10". Then I met a girl online and she was a stickler for height. We made a date but before we met, we were talking on the phone getting along really well when she started asking about the height again. Apparently 5'10" was her absolute minimum and she was sick of guys lying on their profile. So after asking me 5 or 6 times, I was like, OK hang on I'll measure myself again right now. I was only 5'9.25". I swore to her I wasn't lying and that I measured myself at 5'10" when I made the profile but she was like "Sorry ..." click

I felt like I dodged a bullet there. Best I can figure is that girls want a guy to still be taller than them when they're wearing heels. I get that, I know I still wanna be taller, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker to a normal human being. I try to forbid my wife from wearing heels cause I've only got an inch on her as it is. I try. She wore like 6" heels to the wedding. I had to jump to lift her veil over her head. 6" may be an exaggeration, but they were tall and her hair was up, so I'm sure it added up to at least 6 inches.

I mean lets be real here. A girl has set a mental standard. She (in her mind at least) is not attracted to anyone under 5'10". Cool that is fine. It is no different than a male saying he doesn't want to date a girl over 160 pounds. That is the absolute tip top. Then suddenly you go on a date and it is clear this girl is more around 175 or so. You were already pushing your limit of what you find sexually attracted but now this girl obviously is a liar and you are not attracted to her to boot. I can already hear the "But you can't change height!" argument. Well if a girl has a 8/10 body and a 0/10 face are you really going to pursue a relationship with her?

iannis · Apr 7, 2015

Heh. I'da been like, "Yeah, I'm not gonna do that" when she asked me to go get the tape measure.

You did indeed dodge a bullet with that one. She can have whatever standards she wants to have. That's fine, its maybe good even. Its not about that. But if I've said a thing and the first conversation she's already nagging me about that thing... that's not fine.

Cad · Apr 7, 2015

I guess the height thing makes no sense to me because I don't really care how tall chicks are. I like chicks that are 5'0 and I like chicks that are 5'11. I probably tend to prefer the petite ones but if some hottie thats 5'10 comes on to me I'm not going to be like "i'm sorry you're out of my height range, denied" ... thats just some stupid shit. I tend to think you're fortunate actually to weed out bitches dumb enough to exclude a guy on that.

Kirun · Apr 7, 2015

Ortega_sl said:
that shit will fade extremely fast when you are old and lonely.

Is loneliness really a disease that even necessitates a cure? The real test of "manhood", in my opinion, is how a man lives with himself, alone. Very few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of men, particularly in western culture, tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between. For the most part, they subscribe to the bullshit sold by Disney, romantic comedies, their mothers, etc. They become serial monogamists going from LTR to LTR until they "settle", without ever having learned and matured into how to interact as an adult.

The fear of loneliness is entirely too exaggerated in modern western romanticism. The popularized myth of becoming the ?lonely old man who never loved? is just the new "old maid" myth, which was made popular in an era when a woman?s worth was dependent upon her marital status and (at least now) equally as false a premise.

It has been repurposed and repackaged so it can be used as a "shaming" tactic, just like it has been here. "You better change yourself soon, lower your standards, or your "soulmate" might pass you by and you?ll be lonely and purposeless in your old age"! That?s the version most often used by women, usually in an attempt at commitment. The internalized use of the myth, however, is a buffer against rejection. This then usually turns into a man's rationale for settling for a substandard LTR or marriage.

It?s really a triple whammy. There is the female reinforced fear of solitude/lack of maturity. Then, the self-reinforced expectation of maturity or ?doing the right thing?. And finally the use of it as a convenient retreat from rejection or potential rejection.

It's all horseshit and I know plenty of men fully capable of living fulfilling, meaningful lives without hitching themselves to a woman below their standards/ideals. You should absolutely be picky. And, if you maintain your looks and/or have a decent career, you can still attract attractive women well into your 50s and 60s, should you ever decide that you want the "married" life.

Khane · Apr 7, 2015

Cad_sl said:
I guess the height thing makes no sense to me because I don't really care how tall chicks are. I like chicks that are 5'0 and I like chicks that are 5'11. I probably tend to prefer the petite ones but if some hottie thats 5'10 comes on to me I'm not going to be like "i'm sorry you're out of my height range, denied" ... thats just some stupid shit. I tend to think you're fortunate actually to weed out bitches dumb enough to exclude a guy on that.

You have the luxury to say such things as a man who is 6'2"!

Cad · Apr 7, 2015

Khane_sl said:
You have the luxury to say such things as a man who is 6'2"!

I guess, but I've never not been 6'2 so I can't really empathize.

TheBeagle · Apr 7, 2015

Kirun_sl said:
Is loneliness really a disease that even necessitates a cure? The real test of "manhood", in my opinion, is how a man lives with himself, alone. Very few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of men, particularly in western culture, tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between. For the most part, they subscribe to the bullshit sold by Disney, romantic comedies, their mothers, etc. They become serial monogamists going from LTR to LTR until they "settle", without ever having learned and matured into how to interact as an adult.

The fear of loneliness is entirely too exaggerated in modern western romanticism. The popularized myth of becoming the "lonely old man who never loved" is just the new "old maid" myth, which was made popular in an era when a woman's worth was dependent upon her marital status and (at least now) equally as false a premise.

It has been repurposed and repackaged so it can be used as a "shaming" tactic, just like it has been here. "You better change yourself soon, lower your standards, or your "soulmate" might pass you by and you'll be lonely and purposeless in your old age"! That's the version most often used by women, usually in an attempt at commitment. The internalized use of the myth, however, is a buffer against rejection. This then usually turns into a man's rationale for settling for a substandard LTR or marriage.

It's really a triple whammy. There is the female reinforced fear of solitude/lack of maturity. Then, the self-reinforced expectation of maturity or "doing the right thing". And finally the use of it as a convenient retreat from rejection or potential rejection.

It's all horseshit and I know plenty of men fully capable of living fulfilling, meaningful lives without hitching themselves to a woman below their standards/ideals. You should absolutely be picky. And, if you maintain your looks and/or have a decent career, you can still attract attractive women well into your 50s and 60s, should you ever decide that you want the "married" life.

This guy gets it.

Xequecal · Apr 8, 2015

Kirun_sl said:
Honestly, if I were a single dude in the top 1-5% of income earners, there's no way I wouldn't just use escorts. You save yourselfsomuch aggravation, frustrations, and ultimately...sanity. Navigating the swamp that is the current, American dating market is just something I wouldn't even want to mess with, especially since my career would typically have me too busy to deal with all that hassle.

I don't get this at all. Why would a single guy ever want to use escorts? Even if the money is no issue. Escorts are something you turn to if you're stuck in a no/low sex marriage or are no longer attracted to your wife, or if you have to maintain a clean image that prevents you from hitting the bars.

I don't care how hot the escort is, the idea of someone showing up, mechanically blowing you for some precisely set time, then lying on the bed motionless until you've gotten it over with is beyond repulsive to me. I've had a chick do this during sex and I couldn't even get off. Youre much better off fucking a fat chick. Even worse would be if you get an escort that's an obvious drug addict or can't quite mask the fact that she hates what's happening to her right now, and then having to deal with the guilt over it.

DickTrickle · Apr 8, 2015

I think the point is they don't really care about the woman except for her physical attributes.

DickTrickle · Apr 8, 2015

Ortega · Apr 8, 2015

Kirun_sl said:
Is loneliness really a disease that even necessitates a cure? The real test of "manhood", in my opinion, is how a man lives with himself, alone. Very few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of men, particularly in western culture, tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between. For the most part, they subscribe to the bullshit sold by Disney, romantic comedies, their mothers, etc. They become serial monogamists going from LTR to LTR until they "settle", without ever having learned and matured into how to interact as an adult.

The fear of loneliness is entirely too exaggerated in modern western romanticism. The popularized myth of becoming the "lonely old man who never loved" is just the new "old maid" myth, which was made popular in an era when a woman's worth was dependent upon her marital status and (at least now) equally as false a premise.

It has been repurposed and repackaged so it can be used as a "shaming" tactic, just like it has been here. "You better change yourself soon, lower your standards, or your "soulmate" might pass you by and you'll be lonely and purposeless in your old age"! That's the version most often used by women, usually in an attempt at commitment. The internalized use of the myth, however, is a buffer against rejection. This then usually turns into a man's rationale for settling for a substandard LTR or marriage.

It's really a triple whammy. There is the female reinforced fear of solitude/lack of maturity. Then, the self-reinforced expectation of maturity or "doing the right thing". And finally the use of it as a convenient retreat from rejection or potential rejection.

It's all horseshit and I know plenty of men fully capable of living fulfilling, meaningful lives without hitching themselves to a woman below their standards/ideals. You should absolutely be picky. And, if you maintain your looks and/or have a decent career, you can still attract attractive women well into your 50s and 60s, should you ever decide that you want the "married" life.

I'm wayyyyy to lazy to type out some long winded response, so please enlighten me. Why are multi-player games better than single player? Why do we call people just to BS? Why do we have social functions at all? Why do people seek group therapy/counseling when they have no where else to turn? Why the fuck since the dawn of man have we grouped together? I never told Khane to go fuck some fatties, or drop his standards to near zero. I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. The only problem is he views any deviation from his standards no matter how slight as some sort of defeat much like most of America which is why people have so much trouble, because they can't just give others a chance and get out of their own way.

TJT · Apr 8, 2015

Pretty sure you can be social, gregarious, have friends and shit without being married. He's specifically talking about the social pressures to be married. Living alone does not mean living in isolation from all other people.

Unless I am completely mistaken and everything he's saying about marriage and all that shit is actually about social interaction in general.

iannis · Apr 8, 2015

Xequecal_sl said:
I don't get this at all. Why would a single guy ever want to use escorts? Even if the money is no issue. Escorts are something you turn to if you're stuck in a no/low sex marriage or are no longer attracted to your wife, or if you have to maintain a clean image that prevents you from hitting the bars.

I don't care how hot the escort is, the idea of someone showing up, mechanically blowing you for some precisely set time, then lying on the bed motionless until you've gotten it over with is beyond repulsive to me. I've had a chick do this during sex and I couldn't even get off. Youre much better off fucking a fat chick. Even worse would be if you get an escort that's an obvious drug addict or can't quite mask the fact that she hates what's happening to her right now, and then having to deal with the guilt over it.

God that sounds awful.

It also sounds like a girl who's really, really, REALLY bad at her job.

I'm pretty sure I had a young woman try to trick me out the other night. I mean, I might be wrong, but if I hadn't been heading to work I'm 90% confident that I coulda spent a few hundred bucks and had a good ol' time. It's too bad, cause she was cute enough to spend some money on.

Soygen · Apr 8, 2015

Xequecal_sl said:
I don't get this at all. Why would a single guy ever want to use escorts? Even if the money is no issue. Escorts are something you turn to if you're stuck in a no/low sex marriage or are no longer attracted to your wife, or if you have to maintain a clean image that prevents you from hitting the bars.

I don't care how hot the escort is, the idea of someone showing up, mechanically blowing you for some precisely set time, then lying on the bed motionless until you've gotten it over with is beyond repulsive to me. I've had a chick do this during sex and I couldn't even get off. Youre much better off fucking a fat chick. Even worse would be if you get an escort that's an obvious drug addict or can't quite mask the fact that she hates what's happening to her right now, and then having to deal with the guilt over it.

I think you grossly underestimate how good some escorts are at their job. You don't pay the escort for sex. You pay her to leave afterward.

Gavinmad · Apr 8, 2015

I think the issue is Xequecal doesn't understand the difference between the kind of chicks you get from an escort service you find in the yellow pages or the chicks who advertise on backpage vs a bona fide independent escort that you actually have to make a fair bit of effort with. Although the good escorts sometimes advertise on backpage, escort service and backpage chicks are only a single above the camden streetwalkers that J49 bangs.

Good escorts typically require references, meaning other good escorts you've made acquaintance with, which can make it difficult to break into the scene, but the first priority for these chicks is generally protecting themselves, not making money for their next heroin score. And there's a reason it's generally called a girlfriend experience. They don't lie there waiting for you to be done, they do their level best to fuck your brains out because they want familiar repeat customers, not new faces every time. The higher rates they charged compared to one of J49's hookers allow them to be much lower volume so you aren't rolling the dice on getting someone's worn out sloppy seconds. Those are the kind of escorts Kirun is talking about.

Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Bronze Squire

Blackwing Lair Raider

Vyemm Raider

Make America's Team Great Again

Not Smrt

Bronze Knight of the Realm

Musty Nester

scientia potentia est

Buzzfeed Editor

Got something right about marriage

scientia potentia est

JunkiesNetwork Donor

Trump's Staff

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler

Vyemm Raider

Mr. Poopybutthole

Musty Nester

The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One

Mr. Poopybutthole