Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Oblio

Oblio

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Haast_sl said:
I'm not sure how you call out someone's social awkwardness without being an epic asshole, so that I haven't addressed specifically.
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At the risk of sounding like an asshole...how can you even consider marrying someone that you can't have a tough/uncomfortable conversation with. I have been with my wife for 19 years and this July will be 13 years married. I don't know everything about relationships but I do know what works for me and my wife. Sometimes you have to be mean/bluntly honest (in the politest way possible) to create some positive change. Like they say, you have crack a few eggs to make an omelette. If she responds poorly to criticism that is intended to make your relationship better than how are you guys going to get through the tough times in your marriage? I am not trying to talk you into breaking up with her I am just asking you to ask yourself (and her) some really tough questions.
 
Haast

Haast

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Oblio_sl said:
At the risk of sounding like an asshole...how can you even consider marrying someone that you can't have a tough/uncomfortable conversation with. I have been with my wife for 19 years and this July will be 13 years married. I don't know everything about relationships but I do know what works for me and my wife. Sometimes you have to be mean in the politest way possible to create some positive change. Like they say, you have crack a few eggs to make an omelette. If she responds poorly to criticism that is intended to make your relationship better than how are you guys going to get through the tough times in your marriage? I am not trying to talk you into breaking up with her I am just asking you to ask yourself (and her) some really tough questions.
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You don't sound like an asshole. It's a valid point.
 
Khane

Khane

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You already knew what you were going to do AND what we were going to say. So thanks for livening up the thread for a bit, haha.
 
Haast

Haast

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Khane_sl said:
You already knew what you were going to do AND what we were going to say. So thanks for livening up the thread for a bit, haha.
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I had a good idea, given that I've already discussed the matter with those close to me and got similar responses. Just curious what impartial people thought, if their opinion changed at all.

Sucks, but sounds like it is back to the drawing board relationship wise. With a likely painful exit first.
 
Cad

Cad

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Haast_sl said:
So bros, I'm at a critical juncture with the GF. We've been dating for over a year, we're both in our mid 30s, and I think both of us would prefer to know if we're moving forward or moving on. She's made it clear she'd prefer moving forward; the decision is in my lap.

The tl;dr is that our "friendship" chemistry is mediocre, her social awkwardness has made some friends & family lukewarm on her, and she's (for lack of better word) clingy. Meaning she's always pushing to be around me instead of pursuing her own interests/hobbies/friends/etc and balancing that with activities together; she tends to invite herself along to whatever I'm doing, regardless of my thoughts on the matter.

Significant positives are that she has a good career (read: makes money) and intends to stay in it, she's not dramatic, we line up well on the major issues (sex/money/kids/religion/etc) and we tend to compromise well (minus exception above).

I don't think the negatives are correctable (other than backing her off inviting herself to everything to some degree), so I have to decide if I want to deal with them long term or not. I'm leaning towards not. Not thrilled with the prospect of starting the process over, but I'm even less thrilled by setting myself up in a situation where I may become unhappy and should have seen it coming. I'm thinking any one of the three would be forgivable, but all 3 together tip the scales. I think there is a decent chance of regret, but I'm not sure it outweighs the chance of future unhappiness.

Thoughts?
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Can I ask if you are actually annoyed that she likes to be around you? Or is this more of thing where you think it's not proper to spend so much time together and you're saying she's clingy because it seems like the thing to say? Most guys would like if their wives wanted to spend time with them and weren't insufferable about it.
 
opiate82

opiate82

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Haast_sl said:
I think she views us as great friends, whereas I feel like we have less to talk about than normal friends would, less shared sense of humor, less shared interests, etc. Again, not really sure how you address that in a constructive way.
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Do you live together? Because when you live with someone "the rest of your life" you'll run out of things to talk about really quick.

Otherwise, I generally agree with most of the posters, if you aren't feeling it then you aren't feeling it. She doesn't have to do anything "wrong" to cut things off. If you feel like you have an obligation or investment into the relationship at least go with Obilio's advice and have the conversation.

I can tell you that people can, will, and do change over the course of a marriage. I'm not nearly the same person I was when I first met my wife, hell, I'm not even the same person that I was when we married. She has changed and evolved a lot too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not (necessarily) saying your GF's antisocial tendencies are going to go away, what I am saying is that in order to adapt and grow together you NEED communication.
 
Palum

Palum

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Cad_sl said:
Can I ask if you are actually annoyed that she likes to be around you? Or is this more of thing where you think it's not proper to spend so much time together and you're saying she's clingy because it seems like the thing to say? Most guys would like if their wives wanted to spend time with them and weren't insufferable about it.
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It seems it is more his way of expressing reservation about it that is otherwise intangible.

Maybe we don't have the full story but I'd say most women are 'clingy' to the extent he exposes here. When I have to run to Lowe's for something and my GF says "OK I'll come with you" I don't immediately flip out and say "fuck you, take your car and go to Ulta instead!" I know genuinely 'clingy' people but they are extremely emotionally fucky and make it painful to deal with. Like having crying fits over not being included in a 10 minute run down the street to the butcher for steaks while she is in the bathroom. That's clingy.

Haast I think you already made up your mind but at least you owe it to yourself to figure out the real reason because it sounds like all the most important parts you have figured out and you are just trying to force excuses to make the decision easier. If 'it' is just not there, it isn't, but the 'soulmate' idea is just a dumb dream to placate eternally single people. Maybe the details on her behavior would make it more obvious, but yea... you made it a year so it can't be THAT bad or else you would have (hopefully) cut that off waaaay earlier.
 
Fifey

Fifey

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Sounds exactly like the situation that I just left, I couldn't tell if I was happy or just settling and comfortable. It made the break up very hard but I'd say I'm happier now that I've adjusted again to single life.
 
Khane

Khane

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He's not into this woman. That's the real reason.

It's happened to me more times than I can count. Meet a woman who has her shit together and most things are good but she just bores you to tears because she doesn't have her own life. Everything she does revolves around you because she's just not a very interesting person so she relies on you to make her entertaining company and that is not the kind of person an independent person can be with. Just can't work.
 
Mrs. Gravy

Mrs. Gravy

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I disagree that one runs out of things to discuss if they have lived together/married several years.
My marriage was difficult at times and easy at times...we were young and we changed over the years. Our good fortune was that we each focused on recognizing the positives in one another and respecting the differences. We loved and were in love with one another and a shared sense of humor saved us in difficult times.
I am not saying you need or want that...but you do need to decide what you do want and need....and you need to let her in on it.
 
opiate82

opiate82

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Mrs. Gravy_sl said:
I disagree that one runs out of things to discuss if they have lived together/married several years.
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Run out of things to discuss, no absolutely not. Basically any important, or unimportant discussion should be taking place with your spouse.

But day-in-day-out, are you telling me you never had moments where everything that needed (or wasn't needed) to be said had been and you were just enjoying your time together without ever having to say a word?
 
Haast

Haast

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Khane_sl said:
It's happened to me more times than I can count. Meet a woman who has her shit together and most things are good but she just bores you to tears because she doesn't have her own life. Everything she does revolves around you because she's just not a very interesting person so she relies on you to make her entertaining company and that is not the kind of person an independent person can be with. Just can't work.
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I did read everyone's posts, but this is an eerily accurate description.

We just aren't that well matched, resulting in a lack of personal connection and annoyance when she pushes to spend max time with me. Maybe the way I'm writing this sounds like excuses or not knowing what's going on. I'd say it's more like I'm sad it's not working, because she's a good person and I wish we were a better match.
 
Palum

Palum

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Do you live together? If no, how is she spending that much time with you without your approval?
 
Haast

Haast

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Palum_sl said:
Do you live together? If no, how is she spending that much time with you without your approval?
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We do not live together. I'm failing at typing up the explanation; it's late and I've already deleted like 5 different explanations because I'm not a great writer. I'll keep it short.

She wants to spend as much of her free time with me as possible, and presumes I'd like the same despite having several clear sit-down discussions with her to the contrary. My guess is she thinks that by being around me as much as possible, we are "making progress". In reality, it's sealing my dislike of the relationship.
 
moonarchia

moonarchia

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Haast_sl said:
We do not live together. I'm failing at typing up the explanation; it's late and I've already deleted like 5 different explanations because I'm not a great writer. I'll keep it short.

She wants to spend as much of her free time with me as possible, and presumes I'd like the same despite having several clear sit-down discussions with her to the contrary. My guess is she thinks that by being around me as much as possible, we are "making progress". In reality, it's sealing my dislike of the relationship.
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If you have any dislike to begin with, cut her loose. Just like it's stupid for women to expect to be able to change a man, it's just as stupid to be able to expect to change her. You gave it the old college try and it failed. End it for her sake and yours.
 
T

The Ancient_sl

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opiate82_sl said:
Run out of things to discuss, no absolutely not. Basically any important, or unimportant discussion should be taking place with your spouse.

But day-in-day-out, are you telling me you never had moments where everything that needed (or wasn't needed) to be said had been and you were just enjoying your time together without ever having to say a word?
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This is a nice look at the wives' perspective. My wife probably thinks we are having conversation too when she's telling me the details of her day. In actuality I am just keying in on enough details to give response but I would miserably fail any quiz on the material 20 minutes later.
 
Mrs. Gravy

Mrs. Gravy

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opiate82_sl said:
Run out of things to discuss, no absolutely not. Basically any important, or unimportant discussion should be taking place with your spouse.

But day-in-day-out, are you telling me you never had moments where everything that needed (or wasn't needed) to be said had been and you were just enjoying your time together without ever having to say a word?
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Oh, of course...I misunderstood your first assertion. Absolutely, we did not have to fill every second with a spoken word. I think Gravy definitely enjoyed when I was quiet!
 
moontayle

moontayle

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It sounds like you've made your decision Haast but I'll echo everyone else. Wife and I will hit 15 years in June. I was friends with her for 3 years before we dated, and we did that for 1 year before we got engaged. The wedding was 2 years later. I can honestly say she's my best friend in the world. If the personal connection isn't there, if you couldn't be friends with her outside of the relationship, it won't work and you will be emotionally miserable if you try. You have to take care of you.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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I consider my wife my best friend. We may argue, we may have small fights, we might not agree on everything - but at the end of the day we go to bed as best friends, as a team. I absolutely could not date or marry a person I didn't think of like that. As a divorcee yourself, this should be even more understood by you. It sounds like you posted this to justify your position, and there's nothing wrong with that.

You deserve someone that is the whole package to you.
 
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