Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Khane

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Well it was really just more of an example of the ball of wax that dating can become. People are dishonest with themselves, and then dishonest with the people they are in a relationship with, even as they get older and should be more mature. Even when it comes to major, life altering decisions like starting a family.

I wasn't trying to start a conversation about the merits of a stay at home mother vs working parents. Though I guess maybe you guys are itching to start that one back up again. It's been a while.
 
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Well it was really just more of an example of the ball of wax that dating can become. People are dishonest with themselves, and then dishonest with the people they are in a relationship with, even as they get older and should be more mature. Even when it comes to major, life altering decisions like starting a family.

I wasn't trying to start a conversation about the merits of a stay at home mother vs working parents. Though I guess maybe you guys are itching to start that one back up again. It's been a while.
Do you want to have kids?
 

Khane

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I'm not interested in having that conversation yet again here.

I'm happy to talk about relationships in general, and then giving some personal experience as examples of what shapes my opinions on that topic.
 

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Trump's Staff
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Sorry I don't follow the thread too much to keep up with everything. The last thing I read about you was your bush stalker.
 

Khane

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That wasn't me.

Unless you're calling me a bush stalker. But that's not me either.

I'm more of a bush hunter. If you know what I mean.

 
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Jackie Treehorn

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I doubt I'd ever get married without a pre-nup which can and often does cause all kinds of other emotional turmoil in a relationship.

But what still gives me pause, even with pre-nups, is from what I've read the "unforeseen circumstances" provisions can be interpreted in wide degrees. And major changes to financial situations during a marriage, as compared to the beginning of a marriage, can nullify them. It's my understanding that if, for instance, a woman with a lucrative career decided to stop working after having children, or lost her job and her desire to try to find new work, over the course of time that change in financial situation could be enough to nullify anti-alimony clauses in a pre-nup.

This probably seems like an unlikely scenario but going back to what I said before where people can get caught up in past experiences... I have had several successful, career women that I was dating who suddenly and very abruptly changed their minds about how they saw their own future unfolding. After we were together for a while and financial stability became apparent. It's jarring, confusing, and irritating for a woman you're dating who suggests she is career oriented and enjoys her job and "takes care of herself" to suddenly start saying "Oh well if we had kids I wouldn't want a stranger raising them, I'd want to be a housewife" simply because she found out I would be able to support that kind of lifestyle. It's one thing for them to be up front and honest about it, and entirely another for them to so drastically shift so suddenly to a completely differing opinion.

It makes me wary of... every woman. Unfairly but... hard to get past it.
Living where I live, the cost of childcare is approximately as much as someone working anyway, so I have no problem supporting a woman and child(s) at least until they enter school.

People get on waiting lists and shit for childcare in the Bay Area I’m told sometimes like a year before they even conceive. 😜
 

Kithani

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Living where I live, the cost of childcare is approximately as much as someone working anyway, so I have no problem supporting a woman and child(s) at least until they enter school.

People get on waiting lists and shit for childcare in the Bay Area I’m told sometimes like a year before they even conceive. 😜
IMO it's especially bad in Cali where you basically have to earn (cost of child care + housecleaner) * 1.45 just to make it a break even scenario. I was raised in a dual income home and married a high income spouse but sometimes I do look at things and think "eh it could've worked out other ways"
 
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Hoss

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Living where I live, the cost of childcare is approximately as much as someone working anyway, so I have no problem supporting a woman and child(s) at least until they enter school.

People get on waiting lists and shit for childcare in the Bay Area I’m told sometimes like a year before they even conceive. 😜

I don't think it's where you live. I think that's true almost anywhere. If you don't have free daycare, it usually doesn't make financial sense for both parents to work. But most people don't see that because you really have to crunch the numbers, it's not always apparent in the cost of the daycare itself. You have to add in the meals and gas and wardrobe and shit like that too. You get to where both need to be making pretty good money to come out ahead financially.
 

Cad

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I don't think it's where you live. I think that's true almost anywhere. If you don't have free daycare, it usually doesn't make financial sense for both parents to work. But most people don't see that because you really have to crunch the numbers, it's not always apparent in the cost of the daycare itself. You have to add in the meals and gas and wardrobe and shit like that too. You get to where both need to be making pretty good money to come out ahead financially.
How fucking little do you guys make that montessori school + aupair approaches the income of an entire person? The fuck?

Edit: and even if it did approach it, how does it make sense to have a person sitting at home not developing their career for the 5-7 years it takes your kids to be in full time school? What are they gonna do after that? You hamstring their career and cost yourself hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars when you can't get them back to work later or they just get shitty jobs because they're 35 and no/little experience...

How is that a good plan? Put her to work and let the kids go to school, sheesh. Stay at home mom has absolutely nothing to do all day once they are in 1st grade.
 
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Hoss

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How fucking little do you guys make that montessori school + aupair approaches the income of an entire person? The fuck?
lol an aupair is a whole person isn't it? So right there, you'd have to be making as much as that whole person you're going to pay to replace the parent.
 

Cad

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lol an aupair is a whole person isn't it? So right there, you'd have to be making as much as that whole person you're going to pay to replace the parent.
Sure, but who marries $8/hr aupairs...
 
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Soygen

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What's an aupair cost? An ugly one, even. You house them, too, right?
 

Hoss

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Sure, but who marries $8/hr aupairs...

How many hours do they work? Google says au pairs make $25-$28k per year in dallas. That would work out to 67 hours a week at $8/hr.

What's an aupair cost? An ugly one, even. You house them, too, right?

everything I know about au pairs I know from watching Charles In Charge. Well, that and Hand that Rocks the Cradle. But Charles In Charge mostly.
 

Cad

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What's an aupair cost? An ugly one, even. You house them, too, right?
Screen Shot 2022-02-03 at 4.48.54 PM.png
 
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Jackie Treehorn

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Two of my coworkers have aupairs. One is Hungarian, the other is Spanish. They seem to really like it. They also have large houses with an extra bed and bath to make that easy though.
 

Faux

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My wife and I are on our third au pair. First au pair was when our youngest was 1 year old. She stayed for 2 years (program max). Second au pair stayed for 2 years. Then we had a gap year thanks to Covid shutting down visa approval. Now we are on our third au pair, and my youngest is about to turn 7. Au pair has very little to do now that kids are in first and third grade, so I doubt we'll get another one. I don't know what we will decide either if current au pair wants to stay a second year, even though we like her.
I'm sure my wife would have liked to stay at home with the kids, but we are way better off financially with both working and having the au pair for childcare. And its not like someone else is raising the kids. Our au pairs just help them get ready for school now and sometimes run them to dance class or whatever afterwards. She probably only works like 15 hours per week with the kids at their current ages. Over the summer its more of course.

When you factor in all the fees with the program and the direct pay to the au pair, I believe it comes out to just under $30k / year.

The au pair program has worked well for us, but it can be a total nightmare. Lots of shitty host families and shitty au pairs.
 
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Kithani

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How fucking little do you guys make that montessori school + aupair approaches the income of an entire person? The fuck?

Edit: and even if it did approach it, how does it make sense to have a person sitting at home not developing their career for the 5-7 years it takes your kids to be in full time school? What are they gonna do after that? You hamstring their career and cost yourself hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars when you can't get them back to work later or they just get shitty jobs because they're 35 and no/little experience...

How is that a good plan? Put her to work and let the kids go to school, sheesh. Stay at home mom has absolutely nothing to do all day once they are in 1st grade.
Tax man takes 35-45% off the top, then start subtracting costs IMO. A spouse making $100k is bringing home what, 55-65k depending on state?

Like I said I married a high(ish) income spouse but I'm just saying when you run the numbers it isn't so clearcut. I will say though that I am in healthcare so I don't see a lot of career suicide by going part time for a few years (quitting altogether would be a different story) which I guess it would in other fields?
 

Khane

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So I actually had a conversation with friends today who just hired an au pair. $250/week plus food. So probably 18k/yr? In CT.
 

Faux

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So I actually had a conversation with friends today who just hired an au pair. $250/week plus food. So probably 18k/yr? In CT.
I’m in CT too. That is essentially what we pay to the au pair for her wages. There are other agency fees so total cost is in the high 20s I believe.
 

Khane

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Tax man takes 35-45% off the top, then start subtracting costs IMO. A spouse making $100k is bringing home what, 55-65k depending on state?

Like I said I married a high(ish) income spouse but I'm just saying when you run the numbers it isn't so clearcut. I will say though that I am in healthcare so I don't see a lot of career suicide by going part time for a few years (quitting altogether would be a different story) which I guess it would in other fields?

Tax man doesn't just automatically take 35-45% off the top. If he's taking that much from a couple that's married filing jointly they are in the top ~5-10% household income earners for the entire country. It's actually very clear cut if it's just a mathematical problem for you on which course of action to take.

Cad explained it very well.