MMA Thread

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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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I'm not even sure what your argument is anymore. Ok, he's a scumbag *shrug*

(and those last two gifs weren't even knockouts... I'm not sure what you're posting them for)
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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That his natural response to downing an opponent is to spring on them, every time. It isn't like he's thinking 10 steps ahead; it's what he follows seeing someone drop with.

Hendo is one of my favorite fighters, but if he thinks he saw MB unconscious in that .5 second and made the rational decision to leap on him? He's a liar. It's a fun narrative after the fact, but there's no way he knew that Bisping was going out before he threw that punch, and that he rationally made the decision to "shut him up" with the drop. All those .gifs Lanx threw up are basically proof that Hendo always follows up a drop with some GnP antics, whether there's a knockout or not. If anything, the last two not being knockouts is proof positive.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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The last two have nothing to do with the argument. They're still consciously trying to defend themselves. If you guys don't think he's capable of pulling a punch when a guy is so obviously unconscious with his hands sprawled over his head, you're delusional. In fact, that some guys do pull punches in those cases is proof positive that Henderson and guys like him are scummy. I have no idea why you would want to defend that garbage.

And enough with this .5 seconds bullshit. Watch the Bisping knock out. He doesn't even start diving at him until Bisping's head has already bounced off the ground and he stiffened up. I'm sorry, but your favourite fighter is dirty
 
Lanx

Lanx

<Prior Amod>
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Rezz said:
That his natural response to downing an opponent is to spring on them, every time. It isn't like he's thinking 10 steps ahead; it's what he follows seeing someone drop with.
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Why does Jive find this so difficult to understand?

Like he's ignoring basic arguments to prove his initial point.
Jive Turkey said:
The last two have nothing to do with the argument. They're still consciously trying to defend themselves.
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Those last show he don't pull back, also besides a Gracie KO, this was about his only "history" of KO'in ppl b4 Bisping, he's not a KO guy before he dropped the H-bomb on Bisping, he's all decisions, Rogan even brought it up that for a while he was known as "Decision Dan".

So him "knowing" when a guy is out, is silly, since he's only really KO'd 3 ppl b4 Bisping, and one of them, you saw how he acted w/ Silva, exactly the same.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,726
9,106
Who'd have thought suggesting the refs use a little finesse (like, seriously, just a little) instead of bulldozing the fighters together and not punching a guy when he's clearly unconscious would be such contentious things to say
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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9,106
Lanx said:
Why does Jive find this so difficult to understand?

Like he's ignoring basic arguments to prove his initial point.
Click to expand...

You guys have zero sense of nuance. "Hurrr, look, he kept punching this guy as he was defending himself before the ref stopped it. That's exactly the same thing Jive is talking about. We're so right. High five bro"

Here's a hint. The first gif is dirty, the second two are not. If you don't think he could've stopped himself from punching Silva there, your boner for Hendo is getting in the way of your logic.
 
Lanx

Lanx

<Prior Amod>
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Jive Turkey said:
You guys have zero sense of nuance. "Hurrr, look, he kept punching this guy as he was defending himself before the ref stopped it. That's exactly the same thing Jive is talking about. We're so right. High five bro"

Here's a hint. The first gif is dirty, the second two are not. If you don't think he could've stopped himself from punching Silva there, your boner for Hendo is getting in the way of your logic.
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Those are his TKO stoppages, meaning Ref stopped him, or he woulda still gone ham.

The only time he stopped? like i said was w/ Ralek and that was also his first KO ever.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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What are you even arguing now? That he never stops punching until the ref stops him except for his first knockout? Do you think this particular argument is about whether Dan Henderson ever stops punching someone until the ref steps in??? Is that the point that you think I'm trying to refute? Jesus.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Here, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on a point I was never trying to make. Yes, Dan Henderson in particular never stops punching someone until the ref steps in. So he's surely pounded on someone's head that he knew was knocked out already because the ref had yet to stop him. Which is the behaviour I was saying was dirty.

So is your argument that nobody ever hits someone they know is unconscious, or is it that you're just supposed to keep punching no matter what until the ref stops you?

Or is it that just by sheer coincidence, those two things always happen simultaneously and the ref always steps in at the exact moment the fighter realizes the other guy is knocked out?

If it's the first, you're naive, if it's the second, you're part of the problem, and if it's the third, you're a moron (I'm sure you're not a moron)
 
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Lanx

Lanx

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Jive Turkey said:
What are you even arguing now? That he never stops punching until the ref stops him except for his first knockout? Do you think this particular argument is about whether Dan Henderson ever stops punching someone until the ref steps in??? Is that the point that you think I'm trying to refute? Jesus.
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this
Jive Turkey said:
“I believe I [shut him up] for a little while,” Henderson said. “I don’t know if I can ever shut his mouth completely, though. Normally, I’m not that way in fights. I know if a guy is out, and I tend to stop. I knew I [knocked] him out. I think that last one was just to shut him up a little bit.”

He said it himself. Bisping was stiff falling to the ground. He was clearly out.
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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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9,106
Lanx said:
this
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But that was secondary to the argument. I don't particularly care what Dan Henderson himself does as it has no bearing on my original post. If you'd like to argue that Dan Henderson had no idea Bisping or Silva were unconscious before he dropped a diving right hand on them, I'd disagree, but that wasn't what I was posting for. Also, the gifs of Dan punching a still conscious and defending opponent until the ref stops him has zero bearing on whether he punched Bisping or Silva after knowing they were out. The situations are completely different

Reset. Do you think people ever pound on an obviously KO'd opponent just because the ref hasn't had a chance to intervene yet? Are you okay with people doing that?
 
Lanx

Lanx

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Jive Turkey said:
But that was secondary to the argument. I don't particularly care what Dan Henderson himself does as it has no bearing on my original post. If you'd like to argue that Dan Henderson had no idea Bisping or Silva were unconscious before he dropped a diving right hand on them, I'd disagree, but that wasn't what I was posting for. Also, the gifs of Dan punching a still conscious and defending opponent until the ref stops him has zero bearing on whether he punched Bisping or Silva after knowing they were out. The situations are completely different

Reset. Do you think people ever pound on an obviously KO'd opponent just because the ref hasn't had a chance to intervene yet? Are you okay with people doing that?
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100% ok, b/c they are in killer mode, they're seeing red, a few more hammerstrikes and they win! No different than seeing the finish line in a race and you magically push yourself to take one more step.

We got a birds eye view of destruction, we're taking all different things into account, "oh he looks more wobbly now than b4", "oh he's getting murdered against the cage", whereas the fighter is only thinking about how to take the other guy down.

I'm not calling for wonton destruction of the other guy or straight up murder, I'm saying the only person with 100% authority is the ref.

Again take Bisping v. Anderson, Anderson flying knee'd Bisping and thought thats a wrap, jumps on cage, b/c he thinks its enough to put Bisping away
bisping-silva-knee-third-round.gif


Herb saw that Bisping was still conscience, even talking/yelling about the damn mouthpiece

There woulda been arguments across the board, Silva wanted an easy win, so he just played up the crowd and jumped on the cage to "convince" Herb that he won. Or that Bisping still had his wits about him, sure he was down, but he could defend himself and maybe, improve his position if given the chance... but you HAVE to give him that chance.

Ref decides.

bisping-silva-knee-third-round.gif
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Lanx said:
100% ok
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I'm not, but at least we're on the same track again. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

In reference to the Silva/Bisping gif, Bisping clearly wasn't out cold. There is nuance here.

Anyway, I'm sure you're as bored as I am. At least we got some good gifs out of it
 
Lanx

Lanx

<Prior Amod>
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Jive Turkey said:
I'm not, but at least we're on the same track again. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

In reference to the Silva/Bisping gif, Bisping clearly wasn't out cold. There is nuance here.

Anyway, I'm sure you're as bored as I am. At least we got some good gifs out of it
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YOU got the gifs, i had to search and create some! talk about one sided.
 
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Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Jive Turkey said:
The last two have nothing to do with the argument. They're still consciously trying to defend themselves. If you guys don't think he's capable of pulling a punch when a guy is so obviously unconscious with his hands sprawled over his head, you're delusional. In fact, that some guys do pull punches in those cases is proof positive that Henderson and guys like him are scummy. I have no idea why you would want to defend that garbage.

And enough with this .5 seconds bullshit. Watch the Bisping knock out. He doesn't even start diving at him until Bisping's head has already bounced off the ground and he stiffened up. I'm sorry, but your favourite fighter is dirty
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His antics were the result of literally -every- time he drops someone. He does the exact same thing. So does the vast majority of the UFC. You go until the ref tells you to stop, or you have a chance at losing. Notable exception being Hunt because he has more experience than 90% of MMA fighters with KOs period, and probably closer to 99% with actually knowing when someone is out.

I'm not sure what you're arguing. Yeah, people that knowingly hit downed and unconscious fighters are probably assholes and shouldn't be in the sport (you know, antics like Palhares with the obvious tweaking post tap) but if you think for a second that Dan had enough time to process that his opponent was out and that he had won, you're absolutely delusional. That doesn't make Hendo a good guy or a bad guy; in fact I don't think anyone is arguing the fact. But if you think him jumping on a downed opponent is somehow him "being dirty" then literally every fight he's ever been in has been dirty, including ones where he didn't KO his opponent and then jump on them. What are you looking for? Everyone to say Dan Henderson intentionally hurts downed opponents? I don't buy that for a second, and I definitely don't think he "knew" that Bisping was out when he started his dive. Guy was experienced, but you're giving way too much credit to implied malice in this case. He did the same thing in every other fight his opponent was knocked down. That was instinct and training, not malice.

Wait what the hell are you arguing about? Nobody here has argued for a second that it is OK to continue to pound on an obviously out opponent. What everyone has said, and pretty well, is that the referee is the determinant of when a fight is over, and there are some cases of fights being "over" as far as the fighters are concerned that end up being switched because the ref didn't see it that way. So -every- fighter is trained to continue until stoppage. Roy Nelson being upset is valid because Big John had a late stop. But the determent of when that fight was over was... drumroll... the ref's opinion. I get what you're saying but nobody is actually disagreeing with you except your version of what happened in the Dan Henderson/Bisping 1 fight. Guy is older than I am and was getting hit in the head occasionally. You're attributing malice to negligence when that simply isn't plausible in this case.

-You- need to watch the bisping knockout. Count some mississippis or something and see how long it took Dan to go from throwing his knockout punch to pouncing, and then compare it to literally every other fight he's been in. C'mon, man.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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grumblethorn said:
This is kind of a retarded stance to take. Ref shouldn't intervene aggressively to protect the health of a fighter for the fear that it "might" sometime in the future hurt a fighter. Also fighters should regulate when they should stop choking, punching an opponent for "reasons", when the rules hold the referee the final arbiter of a finish? Um ok.
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So basically you want an MMA like the shit from 80s movies where people just kill their competitors because they feel like it etc. and nobody should stop them?
 
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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Rezz said:
But if you think him jumping on a downed opponent is somehow him "being dirty" then literally every fight he's ever been in has been dirty, including ones where he didn't KO his opponent and then jump on them.
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This is completely illogical. Because he punches conscious fighters until the ref says stop, he's incapable of recognizing and not dropping a bomb on a KO'd opponent? That makes absolutely zero sense. He's not an automaton. Yes, he fights up to stoppages, but that doesn't disqualify him from throwing in a cheap one on a KO'd opponent. There was close to 2 seconds between punching Bisping and following it up with a diving elbow. He didn't even start the motion until Bisping's head had bounced off the canvass. I know he's old and has been hit in the head a lot, but if you don't think his brain is able to process fast enough to decide not to throw the punch, you're crazy. At least Lanx's argument that he's amped up and maybe operating in the heat of the moment is honest. He absolutely knew Bisping and Silva were out.

It seems like you guys are arguing against the part where Henderson said he normally pulls up when he knows a guy is out. That wasn't the important part. The fact that he said he knew he was out was the important part. Posting another gif of him doing the same thing to Silva doesn't do anything to discredit that. It just shows he's dirtier than he's willing to admit.

Anyway. Boring. Lets move on
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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So he does the exact same thing following -every- downed opponent, but you see malice in him doing it to KO'd opponents, when he has a much smaller subset of KO'd opponents vs. opponents he simply knocked down? Ok then.
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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That in 100% of situations he reacts the same, so thinking that him reacting in that exact same manner during that specific situation is somehow logically invalid?

Have you met Tanoomba?
 
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