Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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+1 Internet. Thankyou. That pretty much sums up nicely as to why this will fail in its current incarnation. OH look this was not even written by Utnayan.....
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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I think you make great points and to further it, every dollar over the 800k mark is only going to be of slight marginal value. What they need more than anything else at this point is numbers of backers, such that they can convince a publisher (including SOE) that this is going to be a big enough seller to justify the $8-10m necessary to pick up the VR studio. They would be better served by 50k backers than $2m dollars, and since it is clear they aren't going to push the upper tiers of stretch goals, total backers is a clearer path to get outside funding.
That is also another issue with keying. If you have a long chain of "XYZ is required to get key to zone ABC which is required to get the flag for zone LMNOP to get the key to get into raid zone RST" you end up with a situation where one super raid guild can monopolize all of ABC, LMNOP, and RST at their leisure by simply keeping XYZ forever dead by their hand.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Agreed. The amount of backers is where it's at. That's the voice in all this. It's been a let down so far but they have an opportunity to drum up plenty of hype once they go into more detail on the features.
I think having a bit of both a large volume of low dollar backers and a decent chunk of high dollar backers paints the best picture. Low dollar backers say I AM INTERESTED ENOUGH IN THIS THAT I'D BUY IT IF IT WAS REAL and high dollar backers say THIS IS SOMETHING THAT INSPIRES ENOUGH PASSION THAT PEOPLE WILL PLOP DOWN BIG DOLLA. The first being their box sales estimate and the second being the people who would probably pay a subscription for a good while. Obviously the lifetime idea fucks with that for the actual backers but the idea being that the folks who back the game represent a subset of a larger group that will play it.
Some people really get into the story too, so as Lore Week continues, maybe we'll pick more up.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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The aforementioned conversation is EXACTLY how I want things to be. I directions like that and I honestly don't think you can have true high fantasy with a GPS. If you want an in-game map that reveals upon discovery and you can make notes on that's tolerable but in no way do I want a mini-map with everything revealed and labeled for every zone. I want the other extreme if anything else.
Back to the conversation, that is the definition of community. Anytime you eliminate the purpose (even at the most minimal levels) you are moving in the wrong direction.
Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
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As of this morning, when Pantheon had around 182k, they were only 8k behind what Pathfinder had on day 7. Pathfinder also asked for 200k more than the Pantheon KS. Even though Pantheon lost two 10k backers (likely trolls anyway), they have still had positive gains every day. This campaign is only a week in and we do not know if there will be surges like Pathfinder had. I do know that they are planning on dropping more information about the game and that in of itself could add more backers. I still think they have a decent trend going and it is similar to what Pathfinder had...and that is with a seriously messed up Kickstarter page/tiers.
What is it about gamers that make them so hopeful? Fuck I know people where if the same place makes their coffee wrong twice in a row they will never go back. Brad has one good title under his belt during an era when there was only one other title in existence! Most of the stuff you all reminisce about was likely an accident at the start and they just ran with it. The fact that I've purchased pretty much every MMO to date and don't feel even slightly compelled to invest the money for alpha access should be telling enough. I mean guys think about it. We could literally take any five Everquest fans off of this forum and come up with a design doc for an MMO we'd like to play. We could also easily outdo that kick starter most of which is nothing but a wall of text. The fact of the matter is it's EASY to sit around and dream up game ideas. It's super fucking easy... It's super easy to dream up ANYTHING, but actually doing it? Well that's pretty hard. I just don't think Brad is your guy.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I see this as a PVE game and would be fine with no PVP. However if they add it I seriously hope the PVP stretch goal just sits there without any serious thought behind it because all MMOs have PVP. There is no way to rationally explain how PVP suddenly comes into being at a certain amount of money, you either account for it in the design stage or you dont. Design stage should be in full swing since last year, having a binary milestone like that which you might reach with post-kickstarter funding sometime in the summer is pointless.
Regarding PVP itself, the less systems are in place surrounding it the better. I dont even want Flex's 3 teams, but I guess it can be bearable. Would rather prefer it to be more like EVE and less like the EQ team servers and all the hard faction games that followed that. In no way do i want BGs, arena seasons or anything that turns PVP into a formulated sports competition.
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I don't understand this line of thinking though (where it concerns mapping). I hear you on not having a mini-map but I don't see the difference of having a map in game (ala vanilla WoW) that fills in and shows where you are at vs just looking at maps online. I don't know anyone that didn't use EQ Atlas. That site had zones mapped, where mobs and items were.
Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
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I 100% agree on no BGs, Arenas, Frontiers, or any of that sort of faggotry. I just do not think "team death match" style PvP offers anything in the MMO world as far as the feeling and substance and LIFE of the game world. This goes double when these things start to have an effect on the way the rest of the game is played. Nerfing PvE abilities for their PvP implications, adding in farmable gear to make PvP players feel loved too, etc. If this game has PvP it should just be the same way it was in EQ. Minor ruleset change with a few tweaks. No real attention given to balancing it or allowing it to impact other aspects of the core game.
I'll personally play on whatever the PvP ruleset server is assuming there is a sustainable population. Otherwise. PvE it is! Playing on a dead server is worse than playing on a PvE only one any day.
How come everyone who wants to argue against the kickstarter totally discounts Everquest as if it was luck or a fluke? Seriously. That's fine you don't believe in the project but stop acting as if EQ never existed and it wasn't massively successful.
You mean like he did with Everquest?
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,767
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PvP done well could be awesome in this game.. Huge dungeons with different access points essentially cater to a fun pvp layout.. I think they should at least have the basic pvp arena at launch with no effort to balance. At least they will have a starting point from players if/when they decide to add pvp.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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He was mostly against the mini-map GPS in his post, which isnt quite the same as looking at a website printout or an ingame map that doesnt show your location on it. Both latter solution still require you to recognize and navigate your surroundings based on the info you read off the map. With GPS, you just turn until the arrow shows the right direction and go full speed ahead, looking back at the map to correct from time to time. Without it, you determine where you think you are and then go in the direction it should be while looking for landmarks you recognize from the map to stay on course. The latter is much more immersive, especially since you are bound to err from time to time.
Seriously anyone "not getting it" do what Tuco said, play Skyrim with said mods. It's a world of a difference.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
- 3,231
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Yup... This x1000!
If we get to where we can talk about a PvP server, let me know. May as well hire Flex, Jil, and I as consultants haha