Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
All I know is every game that's tried to directly copy something (mostly WoW clones) have failed in some way, shape or form. I'm not sure why anyone thinks an EQ clone would be that much different.

Today has been a pretty bad day as far as funding goes. Only about 3300 and 26 backers.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
All I know is every game that's tried to directly copy something (mostly WoW clones) have failed in some way, shape or form. I'm not sure why anyone thinks an EQ clone would be that much different.

Today has been a pretty bad day as far as funding goes. Only about 3300 and 26 backers.
FF11and WoW were both technically EQ clones and they did ok at release.
 
437
0
I almost want to pledge just to tell him to fuck off.
It only takes a dollar!
smile.png
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Maybe this is nit picking but the only thing I picture is a bunch of guys looking at already existing ideas (granted it is probably impossible not to) but make me think you are the creative gods of the universe.
At this point I see five guys sitting around a table in dead fucking silence just staring at each other.
 

Nester

Vyemm Raider
4,985
3,186
Sigh, starting to feel a tad negative about this now as I guess they can change the stretch goals on a whim? Now we have funding going towards PVP? Ya not happy, I certainly wont pull out of this at this point, but cant say I am happy. Seems dishonest to change the goals after they have received my pledge. .
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,915
6,917
EQ1 was soooo tedious, and what sucks is they hid that fact from me. It took me over 7 years of playing that game to figure it out.... bastards.

/sarcasm off

edit: emote added for those who didn't get the obvious
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
FF11and WoW were both technically EQ clones and they did ok at release.
You know what both of those have in common? They are both based off an existing (and very popular) IP. I disagree about WoW vanilla being a eq clone, at least I never thought that when I started playing it.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,037
All I know is every game that's tried to directly copy something (mostly WoW clones) have failed in some way, shape or form. I'm not sure why anyone thinks an EQ clone would be that much different.
They've failed because of the nature of MMO's. MMO's, unlike other genres, are meant to be played in a perpetual state AND at the exclusion of other MMO's (Think about it, people RARELY play two MMO's at once.). Their specific nature makes their market a captive one, because population in game provides a huge number of benefits to the consumer playing the game. For example: If someone else were to make WoW, in almost the same way, with the same stuff, and even more content? It would still probably fail just due to the fact that more people play WoW, so more systems in WoW will work better thanks to more population (Dungeon Finder ect).

That social dynamic in MMO marketing is something most market researchers miss--but it's the core reason why this demographic is so hard to break. WoW didn't even break the paradigm. Sure a lot of us left EQ, but a vast majority of the population stayed (Hard to get precise numbers). WoW became a success by one means--it GREW the market. That's what a lot of these MMO designers do not get. You won't defeat WoW by going after the current market. You need to create a new market that will draw in people who aren't socially invested in WoW's systems. And recreating WoW won't grow the market--if it did, then WoW would just grow. (IE like any other product in a mature market. You make a clone product, you're just competing for the market there.)

Copying EQ isn't going to work, you're right. However, taking EQ and taking and iterating on it to correct the problems in a different way from WoW, just might create a new type of MMO that will grow the market again. And once the market grows, the population in the new game will have a chance to devour WoW--but that growth is essential. EQN, honestly, is the best shot I have seen for this--they are not looking to go after WoW's market. Those guys are looking to grow the MMO space again. They want OTHER sectors of the entertainment market, and it's a fantastic plan.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Heh, that Kingdom Come: Deliverance game has blown the doors off of the Pantheon kickstarter. In one day it's doubled what Pantheon has brought in and has over 8k backers compared to 1600.
It's a great pitch for a niche project. They did have the advantage of 1.5 million to get to where they are, which certainly helps. I think I'm going to back the project tonight, though, because it sounds awesome and like they're worthy. I'd never got involved in KS, but the more I do, the more I find there are a lot of other projects I want to allocate my yearly charity/entertainment money toward....
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,249
913
Kickstarter has resources to help people run successful Kickstarters. It should not take a fan to tell them the right way to do things.
Agreed... i've already preached this... Not only are those resources available but this isn't the first time an old, nostalgic name attempted to raise money for a MMO to bring back the past in old school fashion. Not to mention one in particular raised his money and raised over 2 million.
 

pharmakos

soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
<Bronze Donator>
16,305
-2,233
this thread is trending better than the kickstarter is. 1537 posts in the last 48 hours. if it continues at its current rate, this thread will have roughly 33000 posts when the kickstarter ends, or 1650 pages at the default setting of 20 posts per page.

i wonder if there is some way we could utilize the kinetic energy of the furious posting rate of this thread to generate money that can be put towards the kickstarter.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
They've failed because of the nature of MMO's. MMO's, unlike other genres, are meant to be played in a perpetual state AND at the exclusion of other MMO's (Think about it, people RARELY play two MMO's at once.). Their specific nature makes their market a captive one, because population in game provides a huge number of benefits to the consumer playing the game. For example: If someone else were to make WoW, in almost the same way, with the same stuff, and even more content? It would still probably fail just due to the fact that more people play WoW, so more systems in WoW will work better thanks to more population (Dungeon Finder ect).

That social dynamic in MMO marketing is something most market researchers miss--but it's the core reason why this demographic is so hard to break. WoW didn't even break the paradigm. Sure a lot of us left EQ, but a vast majority of the population stayed (Hard to get precise numbers). WoW became a success by one means--it GREW the market. That's what a lot of these MMO designers do not get. You won't defeat WoW by going after the current market. You need to create a new market that will draw in people who aren't socially invested in WoW's systems.

Copying EQ isn't going to work, you're right. However, taking EQ and taking and iterating on it to correct the problems in a different way from WoW, just might create a new type of MMO that will grow the market again. And once the market grows, the population in the new game will have a chance to devour WoW--but that growth is essential. EQN, honestly, is the best shot I have seen for this--they are not looking to go after WoW's market. Those guys are looking to grow the MMO space again. They want OTHER sectors of the entertainment market, and it's a fantastic plan.
I agree with you, especially the last paragraph. The sad part is I think if Brad pitched this game like you just did, I'd think he'd have a ton more interest despite how horrible the ks has gone.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,915
6,917
All I know is every game that's tried to directly copy something (mostly WoW clones) have failed in some way, shape or form. I'm not sure why anyone thinks an EQ clone would be that much different.

Today has been a pretty bad day as far as funding goes. Only about 3300 and 26 backers.
Uh, WoWISa EQ clone, especially when it released. All they did was fix up the ui, make quests more relevant for leveling, and make the game run smooth on any crap machine (very important to a game's success).

I played a lot of mmos between EQ and my foray into WoW. NONE of them gave me the EQ vibe like WoW did. It is amazing how EQ-like vanilla WoW and BC are.