Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Fish1_sl

shitlord
188
0
Want:

1) Really hard mobs, can't play Vanguard anymore, so boring, steamrolling through dungeons - people hardly even take a scratch. Dumbed down gameplay. Every tank has multiple taunts, single target AND ae, every healer has tons of heal output, ever caster has ways to recover mana, healers can rez people mid fight, etc. Game is just so easy, there are no consequences, it's as dumb as WoW.
2) Complex combat - I like having to think about what I'm doing, there needs to be good choices and bad choices, I want to be able excel by being good and fail by being bad.
3) All loot is rare - like EQ, not new items dropping constantly and from every quest turn in.
4) Don't over engineer - I want to be able to solo in dungeons, albeit slowly and v dangerous. Like I could in Lower guk - dont make everything linked and 5 dots etc.
5) I want there to be some really great elaborate dungeons at the high levels. I don't like raiding, so I want to know there is stuff for me to do later on, to motivate me to keep playing.


Dont want:
1) Anal tedium - I like hard gameplay and long journey, but having to run for 30 minutes to meet a group is not fun, nor was camping for 60+ hours for an item. You need to find a better middle ground between that, and the dumbed down way games like Vanguard are today with instant rifts teleporting you anywhere and combat you play with your eyes closed, no death penalty, loot piniata, etc.
2) Fast regen - it makes it so that nothing matters, you dont need to manage mana or play efficiently, or even watch your back. Nothing matters when you can just rest for a moment and you're full again.
3) The Sims - houses, boats, player run farms, dogfighting on a dragon, all this shit uses development time and it's just not worth it. Gimme a D&D game not some farmville/sims thing for 12 year old girls.
4) FTP - it just doesn't work. Vanguard was ruined by it, everyone has flying mounts and overpowered gear now. Charge a fee to preserve the integrity of the gameplay. Keep costs down and hopefully it will only need to be $10 a month.
5) A game that only lasts me 1 or 2 months - TSW, Rift, SWTOR, AoC, War, pretty much everything.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
Want: Respawns and crowd control.

As fun as some encounters in current-gen dungeons are, they are usually isolated encounters, I miss the suspense of trying to crawl through challenging dungeons while staying ahead of or dealing with respawns (EQ example, my group usually crawled Charasis instead of sitting on 2 rooms in Karnors or Seb). I would be ok with mechanics that disencourage camping actually, but also see no need for them.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,768
617
Tmac47_sl said:
This thread is getting hella rose-colored without even a hint of an announcement. Heh.
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Well he did drop hints on Twitter. People know what type of game to expect because he mentioned it. A lot of us have been posting for years in hopes of a game like EQ and VG would be attempted again. He basically said he's making that game.. Of course people will be excited.

I'm with Creed.. I said it a million times.. bring back all the crowd control classes, let me quad, fear kite, swarm kite, etc.. That stuff was FUN. It wasn't replaced by anything good. Make sure there are plenty of pivotal moments in your class throughout it's journey.. People forget how awesome it was to get that clicky, uber ability, rare item, epic, etc.. during the leveling process. This idea that the real games starts at end game is silly. Let's slow it down and add all those things back over the lifetime of your characters progression.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
etchazz_sl said:
i think a lot of us are. now, if only the teenie bopper, ADHD generation would just stop crying about how every MMO has to be ez mode and instant gratification or they won't play the game for their usual week and then quit and then bitch again about how every game that isn't like the 20th one they just quit won't succeed if it isn't exactly the same.
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Some will learn eventually. You can't expect newer gamers to know the old ways all they see is the 30 day MMO slot machine experience that was introduced by all the non gamer suits who were going after casuals and numbers. But even those casuals will want something deeper someday.

The good news is you have a lot more ppl gaming now and it has to have increased the pool of gamers looking for a deeper experience and I bet many of them don't even know it yet.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,232
901
Anyone else want there to be a higher chance of dying in a dungeon than living? I mean really, unless you are just carelessly trying to go through a dungeon at record time or your healer is a moron, you run a very low risk of dying. Most of the times it is irrelevant because of the cost of death is miniscule. Even in FFXIV I just DPS like mad without any care of pulling aggro because even if I die, it really isn't a big deal and most of the times I live anyway. The major goal is to get through everything as quickly as possible so you can rinse and repeat.

In EQ if you did pull, tank, CC, control DPS, and heal with caution, you were screwed. I'm sorry, I don't care about corpse recoveries and time sinks. I prefer to wait on a list or hold a camp for days in and out. At least I was doing everything in my power to get the most efficient EXP possible while attempt to get a particular drop. Even if the drop wasn't for me, I was either helping a friend or getting something I could sell/trade for my gear.

Where did all of that go? Just talking about it makes me want to play EQ. I love FFXIV, honestly one of my favorite MMO's to date but nothing gives that rush like EQ did. It never gets old to me. It is just unfortunate it is gone. If Vanilla EQ with Team PvP comes out, count me in. I really just want to see a more simplistic approach to play a MMO. I want to log on and begin looking for opportunities to grow my character or help someone else do the same. I do not want to accomplish this by entering a queue or running any instance. I want to go to dungeons relevant to my level, ask for camp checks, wait my turn, and take part in a group that has to know their crap to succeed. I even miss trying to get to my group. CoH was one of the greatest things ever invented. Why? Because you worked yourself to death for year(s) invising, and maneuvering through mobs and obstacles just to get there.

I'll jump off my soap box but I guess I can't believe at least one MMO has taken a more traditional approach to making a MMO. I'm tired of being accommodated. MMO's today are like having an overbearing girlfriend.
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Brad , do not spend one dime nor dev time seconds on any instanced cut scene story bullshit.

None. Zero.

I don't want the mmo to pull me out of the world ever to tell me some stupid story - that's what books and movies are for.

Spend every dime and second making the virtual world a virtual world.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Fish1_sl said:
Want:

1) Really hard mobs, can't play Vanguard anymore, so boring, steamrolling through dungeons - people hardly even take a scratch. Dumbed down gameplay. Every tank has multiple taunts, single target AND ae, every healer has tons of heal output, ever caster has ways to recover mana, healers can rez people mid fight, etc. Game is just so easy, there are no consequences, it's as dumb as WoW.
2) Complex combat - I like having to think about what I'm doing, there needs to be good choices and bad choices, I want to be able excel by being good and fail by being bad.
3) All loot is rare - like EQ, not new items dropping constantly and from every quest turn in.
4) Don't over engineer - I want to be able to solo in dungeons, albeit slowly and v dangerous. Like I could in Lower guk - dont make everything linked and 5 dots etc.
5) I want there to be some really great elaborate dungeons at the high levels. I don't like raiding, so I want to know there is stuff for me to do later on, to motivate me to keep playing.


Dont want:
1) Anal tedium - I like hard gameplay and long journey, but having to run for 30 minutes to meet a group is not fun, nor was camping for 60+ hours for an item. You need to find a better middle ground between that, and the dumbed down way games like Vanguard are today with instant rifts teleporting you anywhere and combat you play with your eyes closed, no death penalty, loot piniata, etc.
2) Fast regen - it makes it so that nothing matters, you dont need to manage mana or play efficiently, or even watch your back. Nothing matters when you can just rest for a moment and you're full again.
3) The Sims - houses, boats, player run farms, dogfighting on a dragon, all this shit uses development time and it's just not worth it. Gimme a D&D game not some farmville/sims thing for 12 year old girls.
4) FTP - it just doesn't work. Vanguard was ruined by it, everyone has flying mounts and overpowered gear now. Charge a fee to preserve the integrity of the gameplay. Keep costs down and hopefully it will only need to be $10 a month.
5) A game that only lasts me 1 or 2 months - TSW, Rift, SWTOR, AoC, War, pretty much everything.
Click to expand...
For your wants:
What is really complex combat? Is it action based where complexity is a form of movement, placement, and reaction time? Is it turn based where you set up resources turns in advanced? Do you want typical global cooldown combat and hotbars full of abilities?

I can agree with most of this on the surface. The MMORPG genre is really lacking difficult content except for some version of high end raiding in some games.

For your don't wants:
In regards to regeneration, I can see the desire for slowing things down and I can almost agree with that. It really depends on how things are balanced and rewarded. To use some random number, if I have to kill 100 mobs to level but I have to rest 5 minutes in between every 2 mobs, I don't want that. That's really boring. But if I had to kill 10 mobs to level and I had to rest inbetween, that would be better. Essentially, if I get a significant reward from killing something, that I can visibly see then I don't mind sitting around waiting for the next bit. But if I have get small rewards (xp, whatever) and still have to wait then the wait doesn't really psychologically feel worth it.

I always wanted to go back to my MUD days in Sojourn/Duris/Toril where as a caster you had spell slots and had to memorize spells before casting them and you got more spell slots as you leveled. I also liked the way DDO does spells and mana too. For me it really ties in to your #1 don't want, they are both the same for me.

Free to play works just fine, it just depends on how you implement it. Not many companies have don't free to play very well.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,768
617
Speaking of combat.. I wonder if Brad has rethought his original combat ideas for VG and evolved them in anyway...

As for regain.. I want to put that type of thing back on crafters and AA's. Pots, gear, etc.. Let it start slow but increase as you progress. I'm not sure we could go back to the days of EQ but I think we could certainly slow it down a notch. I don't want the start and stop feeling on single pulls.. I'd rather just a slow pace but consistently killing with the occasional stoppage to regain. But if I'm going to try multiple mobs at once I should be regaining much more often.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,294
86,028
If we are putting top 5 wants;

1) World building- I'm not playing these games to get my quick gaming fix. I want a world I can get involved with, escape to, etc
2) Difficulty- I don't want to be consistently beating stuff. I don't want my groups to always succeed. I don't want mindless wins.
3) SLOW down the leveling- I hate that the 'game doesn't start until the endgame'. What a stupid idea. Why waste all that world and programming?
4) World Variety- I've always hated the standard fire levels, ice levels, etc in games. I don't mind a desert, forests, and tundras. Give me a lot of unique though with all that. Wow me that first time. Really wow me.
5) Low PVP interest outside of specific servers. PVP centric games are usually shitty. Developers have a hard enough time designing solid content for PVE. They always fail at PVP. Make the world, then worry about PVP later. Do it like EQ and I'm happy. Certain PVP centric servers is just fine.

Don't want:

1) Cock-blocks. Restricted areas, some PVP rules, and certain forms of death are built because you didn't make your game well enough. Test this shit. Slow the exp. Don't give billions of hitpoints to a late boss. Etc, etc, etc.
2) Don't ensure this game is about your vision of what it should be. I hate when developers change a game just because the players are doing something you didn't expect. Unless it blatantly causes unbalance or makes a group of players unable to play a fun game, don't just change shit to fit your 'vision'(or certain constant complaining players). This is a world not a game.
3) Exclusive time based(equipment based) progression. I don't care about the assholes who sit at home all day and their 'needs'. They should have the experience to get better without the time based aspect giving them an edge. Fuck the people who need that kind of coddling. Get a fucking job. Make it hard and not equipment based progression.


Can't think or any other things right now. I want a hard world where skill is paramount and I get to 60 in 4-8 months no matter how long I play. Any skill except playing all the damn time.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
zzeris_sl said:
3) SLOW down the leveling- I hate that the 'game doesn't start until the endgame'. What a stupid idea. Why waste all that world and programming?
Click to expand...
Get rid of levels imo. Find another metric to measure your progress. No more ding! get points! I prefer a more ambiguous form of progression. Finish a quest (an actual quest not a collect 10 bear asses) and get a new spell/awesome item etc. WOW did that with their Warlock spell quest thingy that people say is super hard.
 
K

Kharza-kzad_sl

shitlord
1,080
0
I don't want to need 5 hotbars. Also make abilities have a cadence so I can watch the screen instead of the UI. Or maybe just have abilities only be used to respond to something and let autoattack do its thing I dunno.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,294
86,028
Draegan_sl said:
Get rid of levels imo. Find another metric to measure your progress. No more ding! get points! I prefer a more ambiguous form of progression. Finish a quest (an actual quest not a collect 10 bear asses) and get a new spell/awesome item etc. WOW did that with their Warlock spell quest thingy that people say is super hard.
Click to expand...
I'm all about that kind of progression. Talk about a tired and overused system. Make real achievements the measure of how far you've gotten. Not a couple numbers above your head after your met the completely rote number of exp needed.
 
Tmac

Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
9,975
17,000
Does the original Vanguard thread not exist?

I wanted to go back and compare people's comments to this time around, but...I guess it didn't make the Rerolled cut?

As for what this game needs, I'm going to lower the ball a bit and set some goals that Brad might be able to meet this time around:

1. Functional code at release
2. Functional graphics at release

If he can nail this, it's already better than Vanguard.

For people to be this excited about a developer who couldn't even release a solid build with millions of dollars, on Rerolled of all forums, is baffling.

Times be a changin'!
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Big Flex_sl said:
Desires.

1. PvP Server.
Click to expand...
Can we add to that a specification where this means PVP is actually just about everywhere. No "here's a large zone or two for PVP for you to step in when you want to".

I want a PVP server where you don't have a choice to PVP or not , you rolled on a PVP server thus should be open to kill or be killed wherever.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,232
901
Big Flex_sl said:
Desires.

1. PvP Server.
Click to expand...
We may be the only people that really live for PvP bro haha.... Honestly, I like the added layer of PvP but i'll take a good game first and then they can figure out PvP.

Anyway, you're going to have to get us the inside scoop on Red99 Teams. I cannot tell if it is wishful thinking or happening soon.
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Note when I say PVP server , I understand a smaller team has limited time for such and am not asking for tons of different mechanics.

I'd be 100% happy with a server with just PVP turned on across the board , make it where if in a group/raid your abilities don't hit each other but other than that it's on. No time spent on toning down or balancing , let a thief be the stealth type who is a god in on one on through their abilities , or an enchanter able to charm you off a cliff , whatever, don't spend time balancing the shit.

I like figuring out the dynamics a of a wide open system like this , where safety in numbers and looking over your back is always needed.

And yes , while I love PVP I'd take an old school done well PVE game atm , but seriously , just put up a server with PVP enabled , code in grouping makes abilities not hit each other , but other than that open game , and I'd be all over that.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
As long as a game isnt obviously incompatible with just 'going red' I would say make a server for it and be done, zero special code outside of the needed additions like actually using attacks on players, how/if you can loot them, etc. No level-based cuddling either. You can still branch out into other rulesets once your game is a stable release that sustains its own cost and then some.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,768
617
Tmac47_sl said:
Does the original Vanguard thread not exist?

I wanted to go back and compare people's comments to this time around, but...I guess it didn't make the Rerolled cut?

As for what this game needs, I'm going to lower the ball a bit and set some goals that Brad might be able to meet this time around:

1. Functional code at release
2. Functional graphics at release

If he can nail this, it's already better than Vanguard.

For people to be this excited about a developer who couldn't even release a solid build with millions of dollars, on Rerolled of all forums, is baffling.

Times be a changin'!
Click to expand...
haters gonna hate! Just as you think we are naive for supporting this you're writing this off before you know what the plan is and who's involved. That's a bit premature too don't you think?
 
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