true, but you're really missing the entire point of what the appeal was of EQ: the loot. the reason why so many people camped for hours/days on end in the dungeons was to get the ultra rare loot, whether to sell it or equip it. it's no different in a video game than it is in real life. extremely rare=extremely valuable. the fact that most of the original loot in EQ was no level cap and was lootable and tradable (no BOE, or BOP shit) is what made so many people cram into those dungeons in the first place. i'm not saying you have to completely clone EQ to make a successful game, what i'm saying is put in the rare mobs with the rare loot, that is what makes people want to keep logging in and playing. fact is, for the most part since EQ, the loot in modern MMO's has been uninspired and way too common. i'd much rather dungeon crawl or "camp" for a mob like i did in EQ than be forced to run an instance over and over again from beginning to end ad nauseam like in WoW.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Dear god yes.
I despise the entire fucking token system of any sort.
Let the mobs drop the loot , and random rare world drops even from plain mobs that are in your level range I enjoy also. Extremely rare but still that odd lotto feeling that you never know what might drop.
Also bump up the extremely rare percentage for a mob to drop decent loot in the open world , very slowly and only by tiny amounts , as time goes by and they aren't killed.
Encourage random world exploring and hunting instead of just the most convenient areas.
I despise the entire fucking token system of any sort.
Let the mobs drop the loot , and random rare world drops even from plain mobs that are in your level range I enjoy also. Extremely rare but still that odd lotto feeling that you never know what might drop.
Also bump up the extremely rare percentage for a mob to drop decent loot in the open world , very slowly and only by tiny amounts , as time goes by and they aren't killed.
Encourage random world exploring and hunting instead of just the most convenient areas.
Valderen
Space Pirate
- 4,547
- 2,774
I played EQ for about 5-6 years, never went back after I quit for EQ2/WoW.
Stil today when there is any talk about loot in any game thread...I think of stuff like this:
FBSS, Circlet of Shadows, Rubicite Armor, SMR, Oracle Robe, Jboots, Cloak of Flames, Golden Efreeti Boots, Fungi Tunic, Fishbone Earring etc...
I played WoW just like 2 months ago...replace all my gear, every slot...and I can't name a single item.
Heck, I cannot name a single item I ever obtained in WoW. And can't really name any items from EQ2 either aside from the Heritage items which are basically EQ1 items.
It's the same for most MMO since EQ1, I don't remember the name of any gear from SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, or any MMO since EQ1.
In most case, I can't even really remember any special item I got, not just the name...but actual items that made an impression on me.
I can still name tons of items from EQ1, and still have memories for tons of other whose name I forgot, but that still made an impression on me.
I miss that feeling...I wish a game would come out and recreate that feeling, create an item whose name I remember 10 years from now, or at least remember working for it.
The thing is, I don't have the time to put into games like I did during EQ1...I quit EQ1 and I had over 400 days played. That's like 6 hours a day every day for like 5 years. Kinda sad when you think about it, but I have no regrets, it was a good time.
But I can't do that anymore, I'm not sure I would stick with a game that rewards with 1 item a week, or 1 item a month...like EQ1 did. Or that requires me to sit in the same spot for 8 hours killing the same mob over and over again hope the rare named would spawn, and that he would drop my rare item, and winning the roll...and doing that every day for weeks, or months.
So I don't have the solution really on how a modern MMO could recreate that magical feeling of getting loot in EQ1...without what I feel today would be boring and frustrating gaming experience.
There has to be a way though, somewhere between getting nameless unremarkable loot every few minutes...and getting 1 special awesome and unique item once a month.
Stil today when there is any talk about loot in any game thread...I think of stuff like this:
FBSS, Circlet of Shadows, Rubicite Armor, SMR, Oracle Robe, Jboots, Cloak of Flames, Golden Efreeti Boots, Fungi Tunic, Fishbone Earring etc...
I played WoW just like 2 months ago...replace all my gear, every slot...and I can't name a single item.
Heck, I cannot name a single item I ever obtained in WoW. And can't really name any items from EQ2 either aside from the Heritage items which are basically EQ1 items.
It's the same for most MMO since EQ1, I don't remember the name of any gear from SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, or any MMO since EQ1.
In most case, I can't even really remember any special item I got, not just the name...but actual items that made an impression on me.
I can still name tons of items from EQ1, and still have memories for tons of other whose name I forgot, but that still made an impression on me.
I miss that feeling...I wish a game would come out and recreate that feeling, create an item whose name I remember 10 years from now, or at least remember working for it.
The thing is, I don't have the time to put into games like I did during EQ1...I quit EQ1 and I had over 400 days played. That's like 6 hours a day every day for like 5 years. Kinda sad when you think about it, but I have no regrets, it was a good time.
But I can't do that anymore, I'm not sure I would stick with a game that rewards with 1 item a week, or 1 item a month...like EQ1 did. Or that requires me to sit in the same spot for 8 hours killing the same mob over and over again hope the rare named would spawn, and that he would drop my rare item, and winning the roll...and doing that every day for weeks, or months.
So I don't have the solution really on how a modern MMO could recreate that magical feeling of getting loot in EQ1...without what I feel today would be boring and frustrating gaming experience.
There has to be a way though, somewhere between getting nameless unremarkable loot every few minutes...and getting 1 special awesome and unique item once a month.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
TF was good and all, but such a miniscule portion of the population actually had one to remember. Arcanite reapers on the other hand...well, only one of the two weapons were mentioned in illegal danish :3While I mostly agree I can't possibly forget this one:
The first set of monies need to go into some kind of PR. So far this games hype is this forum and brads twitter.
The magic of EQ lied in thepossiblespontaneity of each play experience. Yes, you camped for hours, but you still didn't know who or if a group would show up to try and KS, train, maybe make new friends, or whatever. You didn't know what would happen when you zoned into Karnor's. You didn't know what you could buy at EC on a particular night. It was enough to keep each play experience somewhat different - and I'm talking in a literal sense: if you actually measured the buttons pushed, the steps walked, even the conversation, I'd be willing to bet day-by-day, it was more different than WoW's was different.
Blizzard and company removed that spontaneity because some of it had consequences and aspects that were considered negative. But their solution was to axe entire mechanics and replace them with limited alternatives (sp and mp ones, not mmp). That's why they're not good designers.
If I have a ferrari and something is wrong with it, I don't gut the entire car, replace the engine, new tires, new everything - then say I fixed the problems. No, I have an altogether different car. Some people might like it better, but I didn'tfixanything, I removed the problem by removing the mechanic that caused the problem and with it, its benefits.
WoW is like a ferrari with a lawnmower engine. It feels good to play, but once you realize what's underneath, you see it's nowhere close to how you expect a ferrari should behave or perform.
The ultimate hypocrisy of course is the rants on FoH/LoS about EQ mechanics. Need to seriously look in the mirror.
Blizzard and company removed that spontaneity because some of it had consequences and aspects that were considered negative. But their solution was to axe entire mechanics and replace them with limited alternatives (sp and mp ones, not mmp). That's why they're not good designers.
If I have a ferrari and something is wrong with it, I don't gut the entire car, replace the engine, new tires, new everything - then say I fixed the problems. No, I have an altogether different car. Some people might like it better, but I didn'tfixanything, I removed the problem by removing the mechanic that caused the problem and with it, its benefits.
WoW is like a ferrari with a lawnmower engine. It feels good to play, but once you realize what's underneath, you see it's nowhere close to how you expect a ferrari should behave or perform.
The ultimate hypocrisy of course is the rants on FoH/LoS about EQ mechanics. Need to seriously look in the mirror.
Rogosh
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 897
- 232
Well said man, I miss pegasus cloak too !I played EQ for about 5-6 years, never went back after I quit for EQ2/WoW.
Stil today when there is any talk about loot in any game thread...I think of stuff like this:
FBSS, Circlet of Shadows, Rubicite Armor, SMR, Oracle Robe, Jboots, Cloak of Flames, Golden Efreeti Boots, Fungi Tunic, Fishbone Earring etc...
I played WoW just like 2 months ago...replace all my gear, every slot...and I can't name a single item.
Heck, I cannot name a single item I ever obtained in WoW. And can't really name any items from EQ2 either aside from the Heritage items which are basically EQ1 items.
It's the same for most MMO since EQ1, I don't remember the name of any gear from SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, or any MMO since EQ1.
In most case, I can't even really remember any special item I got, not just the name...but actual items that made an impression on me.
I can still name tons of items from EQ1, and still have memories for tons of other whose name I forgot, but that still made an impression on me.
I miss that feeling...I wish a game would come out and recreate that feeling, create an item whose name I remember 10 years from now, or at least remember working for it.
The thing is, I don't have the time to put into games like I did during EQ1...I quit EQ1 and I had over 400 days played. That's like 6 hours a day every day for like 5 years. Kinda sad when you think about it, but I have no regrets, it was a good time.
But I can't do that anymore, I'm not sure I would stick with a game that rewards with 1 item a week, or 1 item a month...like EQ1 did. Or that requires me to sit in the same spot for 8 hours killing the same mob over and over again hope the rare named would spawn, and that he would drop my rare item, and winning the roll...and doing that every day for weeks, or months.
So I don't have the solution really on how a modern MMO could recreate that magical feeling of getting loot in EQ1...without what I feel today would be boring and frustrating gaming experience.
There has to be a way though, somewhere between getting nameless unremarkable loot every few minutes...and getting 1 special awesome and unique item once a month.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 582
- 109
EverQuest Itemization is top notch.
There's no pattern you can predict, no algorithm. Also, loot only dropped by rare nameds/bosses and upgrading took awhile. Unlike games that took the Diablo route where you get bombarded with upgrades every hour which destroyed the whole feeling of finally finding a good item to use.
Itemization and how frequent/rare upgrades are is an important aspect of making a game addictive.
I'm also not a fan of "world drops" it ruins lore/immersion. Items should belong to their NPC/Lore/Location.
There's no pattern you can predict, no algorithm. Also, loot only dropped by rare nameds/bosses and upgrading took awhile. Unlike games that took the Diablo route where you get bombarded with upgrades every hour which destroyed the whole feeling of finally finding a good item to use.
Itemization and how frequent/rare upgrades are is an important aspect of making a game addictive.
I'm also not a fan of "world drops" it ruins lore/immersion. Items should belong to their NPC/Lore/Location.
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 17,240
- 44,599
You know, I never heard anyone say that, ever, while people were still playing EQ1.
Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 6,457
- 6,003
EQ simply had 3-4 tiers of items semi randomly spread over the 60 levels of content. Once you got past kunark items were basically replaced every year bar a few exceptions. PoP came along and gave raiders two tiers + of items. After that game eventually became your standard three new tiers of gear per year plus T1 items that were about as good as last expansions final tier.
EQ vanila did a very good job of hiding the tier system but it was still there.
EQ vanila did a very good job of hiding the tier system but it was still there.
you being serious? itemization in EQ was very noticeable and vital. you knew immediately if the tank in your group had planer armor cause he took less damage. you knew when the rogue or monk had a COF or FBSS cause he did a shit ton more damage at a faster pace. the only people who really had a right to complain about itemization during vanilla EQ and the first few expansions were the casters, because there really weren't any items that made you any better than anyone else at your level because the only thing that any of the caster items had was like +10 mana which even if you had several items of plus mana only added up to like 1 more cast of a spell. the ONLY item that casters really coveted at the beginning was the mana stone (which was fucking sweet). i will admit, as a caster, the itemization sucked until i think SOV came out, when items started appearing that increased damage percentages to your spells, or decreased casting time, or the amount of mana used.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,043
- 19,530
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,043
- 19,530
Yeah Itemization rocked. Not for Wizards, Mages, Enchanters, Necros, Shaman, Druids, or Clerics. But for everyone else they could take less damage!
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 17,240
- 44,599
Whether EQ1 had "top notch" itemization is completely different from a debate over hownecessarygear was to classes. As someone who played a War, I knew quite well how gear dependent classes were and how much of a difference gear could make - but that does not mean that EQ1 itemization was "top notch".
I really didn't want to get into an argument over the point Laura was trying to make, which is why I quoted only what I did. But I remember endless bitching about itemization; I don't know about anyone else. You yourself scratched the surface here about the early game, mudflation was an issue later on. And we could probably make a thread over ONLY the itemization in EQ1 and still have it go 100 pages.
Brad/cloth caps/loot tables +"EverQuest Itemization is top notch"= mind blown. I'll let someone else who is more knowledgeable go there, but fucking LOL at havingTHATdiscussion here, considering the thread's title.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
Well, it depends how far you drew it out, but the clickies were still useful to everyone even in classic. Manastone, peg cloak, guise, jboot were all pretty mandatory in classic. Shaman potions helped quite a bit, especially for situational resists. Caster itemization took off in luclin+ though with FT everywhere and eventually focus effects (may have been PoP on focus effects, but certain ones were in, such as the talisman of vah kerrath--along with other boss ass clickies like emp shawl, sseru/emp horses
)
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
Also pretty great when Luclin celestial essence / blue diamond cultural came out. Every non-raiding warrior who didn't worship rallos zek got a swift kick to the groin.
BilboFaggins
N00b
- 302
- 22
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,385
- 277
EQ itemization was done was as random as it gets. Coupled with knowing fuck-all about how stats work it was a pretty funny really. The entirely item-level based streamlined itemization of modern MMOs isnt all that great either though. Basically I'd want some mix-up between power levels, different meaningful stats and all wearable items have the same color. Color-code crafting mats and quest items different if you like, but screw the common/uncommon/rare/epic color coding, we arent that retarded.