For the record I'm glad they are charging for forum access. I want Brad to squeeze every last cent he can out of these people before they finally call it quits. The more they get the funnier this becomes.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Actually, TOR has tons and tons of group based content. I'd wager as much group as they do solo. The thing is you don't have to do any of it, but it still is there. Yes, both leveling and endgame.
The thing is group content and solo content are both valid things and should both available in a good MMO. It's not an either/or scenario, and in a sub based game I personally want things to do when I do not feel like grouping or my usual friends are not online.
Mandatory grouping is a really limiting design in an MMO nowadays. Grouping should be encouraged, but I'd argue you want things split and not have too much on one or the other side.
My problem isn't group vs solo content, it's I really want more sandbox and a lot less themepark.
If they don't share our opinions about what makes a great game and how Pantheon will use those mechanics to put out somewhat of an ol' school game, then what is the purpose of even posting in the thread? Its like me going to the WOW thread and complaining about the mechanics WOW uses. If you don't want to play the game and don't like the direction its going, why bother posting here? It serves no purpose. And to post here day after day after day repeating the same shit=troll.
Yes I would like to see this as well. Games like WoW and EQ are just two sides of the same coin. They both took it too far. This is probably the biggest reason that of the big three classics (EQ, UO and DAoC) I am the least excited for EQ. It doesn't really bring anything fresh back to the genre. It is just WoW + loads of tedium. Ultima Online, and DAoC both had gameplay that was unique for their time, and I think both can translate well into modern games.
I guess we will see what Garriott and Jacobs produce from KS. If both of those fail miserably that might be the end of revisiting old school for quite some time.
You may not do that personally Merlin, but keep in mind that quite a few of your comrades do. There hasn't been a single MMO thread that hasn't at some point or another derailed into a shit sandwhich because someone came along and started in with the "I <3 EQ, and this game sucks because it isn't EQ!" crap. Honestly the way I see it is if some of these guys are only here to anger the fans then it is really just a case of giving as good as they get. Karma is a bitch and I have a hard time seeing them as the bad guy here. Why should a EQ friendly thread be left alone when that same respect isn't given in return?
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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sorry my friend I do not agree... pantheon is an idea at this point.. it is not at all far enough along to warrant the crazy shit people have been posting here. Is the idea worth 50 bucks ? That is everyone's personal decision... is it a guarantee ? NFW. Its a shot at something different that is all.. and yes the MMO industry has fallen into shit far enough that 50 bucks on an idea is worth it to me...
Some of the reactions here are not warranted given the stage at which this thing is at.. people are making connections and conclusions that do not exist. that paying for forums is fraud and a scam. ( this site has a premium feature )... *boggle*
KS is about donations, donations to a project or a cause.. that is it and there are no guarantees.
The KS was a mess, i don't disagree but pound them for that, not anything else and don't claim shit like "brad and co are going to sit on 800k and get high for 6 months" because you nor i have any idea what is going to happen... its all guesswork at this point.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
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For the record i loved vanilla wow. Wow did immersion better than anyone although there wasa bit too much soloing for my tastes, there were significant dungeon experiences along the way and the classes at least at launch were designed more toward grouping with solo capability than solo classes that can group like WOLK+. When I went into Wrath and I was tanking encounters in dungeons, i was done... every encounter was
1. GATHER MOBS
2. AE CRAP OUT OF MOBS
3. KILL BOSS
Vanilla was not like that remember Scholomance ? freakin loved that place... pulling some of those early WoW dungeons was not what i outlined above.
Hence why my comment and question was 2007+ it is interesting the same year where funding was being pulled rapid fire from PC games and put into consoles.... coincidence ? I think not.
I paid the $15 a month sub fee but I am about as far from a fanboy as you can possible get. I'll be quote unquote "spitting da truth" at my misguided gamers and devs alike. I'd wager its a 50/50 chance they will refund my money before too long and say "thanks for the feedback but we got it from here".
As far as grouping, sure a few classes could solo but 95% of all scenario's grouping was faster and safer exp not to mention alot of areas worth while required you being able to handle multiple mobs etc in most of EQ. The requirement for forced grouping is not good for mass market appeal but it sure is fuck is good for forming a community, accountability, and a sense of belonging in a game. There are all sorts of negativies but I still will take the things that I just listed any day of the week. One thing that could be done that I thought FFXIV did semi well (just got back into the game so still learning it) is the party finder. Being able to specific what you are looking for, if you want to plan on doing it in the future, static groups etc. I think that would help the group finding alot. But to be successful they need to A) not have fucking cross server shit outside of maybe pvp clusters (if pvp is in the discussion) and B) have enough worthwhile camps/content that can support multiple active groups at various areas.
I think AA's should be built in from the ground up, inherent 1% exp or something goes to AA's when leveling at a min and you can crank up to 25% or something, then you feel like you have various methods of power gains; combine that with rare dropped loot again from camps etc and you create a reason to actual grind again that is rewarding. I hate to say it but I'm at the point outside of VG style epic quest lines I don't want to see another quest line again. Celestial Ward quest line was just awesome and a bitch prior to nerfs to faction and before people knew all the details. Hell the arena with coin farming and tickets etc was a awesome way to be engaged in the game leveling but also trying to get uber rewards that had staying power (I had the first epic castor item on the server from CW and it was basically BiS until raid gear due to the proc and stats).
We can point out all the issues with the idea of returning to this type of formula but can you honestly look in the mirror and tell yourself you enjoy the shit that is out now? I mean I work 60-70 hours a week with a dynamic schedule running a 24 hour department where I am the linch pin for everything and I'd still make enough time to enjoy and be competitive in a game like EQ again. I'd like to see abit more balance obviously but i'm all for contested content, rare loot etc. Just make sure to design it from the ground up with some mechanics to minimize the negatives (contested spawns, maybe 3 times a week (if we have a large guild game again with 40-56 people) where you get locked out if you kill it for the week. Or a debuff that after 5 wipes you could not engage for an hour or something to allow there to be a race but also not complete lock down etc.
All sorts of ways to mitigate things, just get away from the fucking artifical, completely balanced , and fair approach that makes game so bland. Fuck ilvls, fuck all classes being equal, and fuck everyone thinking they should have a right to see all content the first 2 weeks it was released. This is why AA's were great, early EQ content could be completed with proper strat and orgnaization with less gear and AA's to some extent but as the best completed it and moved foward others slowly increased gear level and AA's and were able to overcome. Make raids tuned for 40 people but allow 50, there now you can have some of the casual guilds bring more people but suffer from item limitation. Also..make gear LARGE INCREASES AND UNIQUE; holy fuck if I play another +1 stat game i swear i'm going to quit gaming. I get the PVP sense you don't want power creep to high or else it kills the new comers but for pve I think a fucker in full raid gear should be able to just literally destory a non raider and be able to grind AA's much more effective or handle old content in small groups. How many of us got hard epeens by going back and doing raid content with a group of 12 or something. And guess what? That gear usually was still good or we could give to an alt etc.
Meh, guys just got me all pissed off at how bad games are now even though they add so many good ideas and user friendliness. Its like having that beautiful natural blond that doesn't even know she is a radiant but then someone puts her in a shit ton of makeup and coaches her on everything to do and say that she becomes so "perfect" that she is fake and souless. Enter Rift and any other MMO as of late.....
As far as grouping, sure a few classes could solo but 95% of all scenario's grouping was faster and safer exp not to mention alot of areas worth while required you being able to handle multiple mobs etc in most of EQ. The requirement for forced grouping is not good for mass market appeal but it sure is fuck is good for forming a community, accountability, and a sense of belonging in a game. There are all sorts of negativies but I still will take the things that I just listed any day of the week. One thing that could be done that I thought FFXIV did semi well (just got back into the game so still learning it) is the party finder. Being able to specific what you are looking for, if you want to plan on doing it in the future, static groups etc. I think that would help the group finding alot. But to be successful they need to A) not have fucking cross server shit outside of maybe pvp clusters (if pvp is in the discussion) and B) have enough worthwhile camps/content that can support multiple active groups at various areas.
I think AA's should be built in from the ground up, inherent 1% exp or something goes to AA's when leveling at a min and you can crank up to 25% or something, then you feel like you have various methods of power gains; combine that with rare dropped loot again from camps etc and you create a reason to actual grind again that is rewarding. I hate to say it but I'm at the point outside of VG style epic quest lines I don't want to see another quest line again. Celestial Ward quest line was just awesome and a bitch prior to nerfs to faction and before people knew all the details. Hell the arena with coin farming and tickets etc was a awesome way to be engaged in the game leveling but also trying to get uber rewards that had staying power (I had the first epic castor item on the server from CW and it was basically BiS until raid gear due to the proc and stats).
We can point out all the issues with the idea of returning to this type of formula but can you honestly look in the mirror and tell yourself you enjoy the shit that is out now? I mean I work 60-70 hours a week with a dynamic schedule running a 24 hour department where I am the linch pin for everything and I'd still make enough time to enjoy and be competitive in a game like EQ again. I'd like to see abit more balance obviously but i'm all for contested content, rare loot etc. Just make sure to design it from the ground up with some mechanics to minimize the negatives (contested spawns, maybe 3 times a week (if we have a large guild game again with 40-56 people) where you get locked out if you kill it for the week. Or a debuff that after 5 wipes you could not engage for an hour or something to allow there to be a race but also not complete lock down etc.
All sorts of ways to mitigate things, just get away from the fucking artifical, completely balanced , and fair approach that makes game so bland. Fuck ilvls, fuck all classes being equal, and fuck everyone thinking they should have a right to see all content the first 2 weeks it was released. This is why AA's were great, early EQ content could be completed with proper strat and orgnaization with less gear and AA's to some extent but as the best completed it and moved foward others slowly increased gear level and AA's and were able to overcome. Make raids tuned for 40 people but allow 50, there now you can have some of the casual guilds bring more people but suffer from item limitation. Also..make gear LARGE INCREASES AND UNIQUE; holy fuck if I play another +1 stat game i swear i'm going to quit gaming. I get the PVP sense you don't want power creep to high or else it kills the new comers but for pve I think a fucker in full raid gear should be able to just literally destory a non raider and be able to grind AA's much more effective or handle old content in small groups. How many of us got hard epeens by going back and doing raid content with a group of 12 or something. And guess what? That gear usually was still good or we could give to an alt etc.
Meh, guys just got me all pissed off at how bad games are now even though they add so many good ideas and user friendliness. Its like having that beautiful natural blond that doesn't even know she is a radiant but then someone puts her in a shit ton of makeup and coaches her on everything to do and say that she becomes so "perfect" that she is fake and souless. Enter Rift and any other MMO as of late.....
I don't disagree. This works both ways though. Someone strongly believing this is a scam is just as valid as you strongly believing this is all above board. Anyone who is 100% certain of anything is a moron. I just think it is wrong to instantly label people who are not waving their "Team Brad!" flags around as trolls. A discussion where everyone is smiling and politely agreeing with each other is how things can quickly go to shit. Opposing viewpoints are important. I can see how making a place for only die hard supporters can be viewed as a bad thing. Surrounding yourself with yes men is bad. You need people to say "Hey, this sucks and here is why". Unfortunately those people tend to get shouted down very quickly by the rabid fans who can't stand to see anyone being critical of something they are excited about.
Seriously the Vanguard beta forums still blows my mind. So many people desperately fighting to make the game as shitty as possible and they couldn't even see it. There was clearly something wrong with Vanguard, but to say so in their presence was sacrilege. I see the Pantheon champions section being no different.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
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The point you bring up is not why Vanguard was a launch disaster, it was the tech and SOE rushing the game not the designs in the game. At this point, you are paying for those old designs which AAA publishers will not fund anymore. That's it.
For the Yes Men comment, how the hell do you think we are in this mess in the MMO space, its the YES MEN saying YES to those holding the investment dollars looking for WoW 2 that have destroyed the genre... not passionate fans with a focused desire. This thing was not meant to be everything to everyone and so far, they have not strayed too far from that so I am cool.
VG had a great leveling experience and the dungeons were fun. Not sure where you are getting 8 of 10 were shit. The issue VG had was it was buggy as fuck and the game engine was shit so most people would not go through all the headache of trying to get the game to run worth a shit and back in the day the hitching alone made most quit frankly. If you had a perma group VG was some fun shit and was second only to EQ in leveling experience and was great until you hit the high 40's and the content ran out.
You can talk shit on several parts of VG but dungeons and leveling content was not one of them.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I'll bite for this. I was in a raid guild, it was even the top guild on the server for a while. That said overall I'd say grouping was more fun then raiding, although I did like both parts of the game. I think EQ had some great mechanics that have been abandoned and I would like to experience them again, mainly public dungeons as a game focus and the combination of respawn and crowd control putting pressure on a group that challenged itself with content at or above their level. On the other hand I'm playing GW2 right now while writing this, losing my ass betting on moa races.
I think the issue is that most people see this as binary situation - it doesnt have to be that way. I can like EQ and want new content in that style (no interest in P99, done that content to death a decade ago), while at the same time liking GW2 or TOR or WoW for other reasons. Or not like some of them without calling everyone that disagrees "stuck in the past", "WoW kiddie" or whatever else.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Thanks Merlin, i just want a social MMO where the primary basis for world exploration is grouping and the game is built around people helping people achieve something greater than what they can do themselves.. I always thought this was the beauty of MMOs and it has been lost. I mean it was the whole point to a "persistent online world" . . not just an auction house.
Everything else is kinda flexible in my mind as long as they nail that one point.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Yeah I agree... I played TOR some and enjoyed it a bit, not so much GW2 and i think there is a place for all these games, i just want a real group based game to come back we have not had one in forever it seems.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Yes, I will confess I ran a RAMDisk to kill the hitching pretty early on 08 ish ? after it was posted on the forums. Too much effort for most I completely agree.. i love to do whack shit like that but one should not have to get all whack techie to play a game.. this does not take away from the content designs that were in place and stellar IMO.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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Agreed that TOR had some group content in all places... I think their major failure was having the dungeons all at the main hub instead of mixed into the natural flow on the appropriate planets.
EQ had tons of solo content anyway, it's just conveniently ignored in these arguments because a good group was way better (a good group is way better in WoW too btw), and some classes actually couldnt solo well or at all.