Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Oh come the fuck on. The kickstarter failed and the project is a joke. There really is no need to attack the guy's whole legacy. It serves no purpose, and is just shitty.

Gecko_sl said:

I still cringe remembering how much I wasted on Yserbius/TSN/INN, Compuserve, and GEnie that one had to pay by the hour. Anyways, off my crappy nitpicking tangent. My first online RPG was a Phaze Door BBS in the early 80s.

Click to expand...

I went from playing Yserbius for an hour once a week when my dad let me play on weekends to playing Tele-Arena 3.0 and MajorMUD in the early 90s to learning about Telnet which lead me to MUDs.

Kirun_sl said:

And even that statement is rife with him attempting to make it seem as though Sojourn was only an "inspiration" for his divine talents. The guy had an idea to port MUDs to 3D. With what we know now, he didn't even really do the "work" portion to bring that idea to fruition. It sounds like he was never anything more than an idea man and not even the ideas were his own.

Click to expand...

How many times did this guy frick your dog? You've been such an angry poster these past few months man.

BubbySoup_sl said:

Epic stylised shot of the Karanas & HH. I remember seeing that wooden bridge loom out of the fog (it wasn't foggy, we just had shitty GPU's back then) and my excitement as I crossed it wondering what new places I was going to get killed in lol.

Fuck these rose tinted glasses, they always make EQ seem better than it actually was...

Click to expand...

That's awesome looking - what is that, and where is it from? Hell I can't tell if it's a to-scale model someone built (with some computer effects added maybe), or a 3D scene someone rendered, or what.

Kirun_sl said:

And even that statement is rife with him attempting to make it seem as though Sojourn was only an "inspiration" for his divine talents. The guy had an idea to port MUDs to 3D. With what we know now, he didn't even really do the "work" portion to bring that idea to fruition. It sounds like he was never anything more than an idea man and not even the ideas were his own.

Click to expand...

So when you think about it Brad hasn't actually designed a success MMO from the ground up yet. EQ was a technical project because the game itself had already been designed by someone else. They just needed to port Sojourn to 3D. Since Brad didn't code EQ by himself to give him more then a nod of recognition is giving him too much credit. EQ exists because Sojourn was popular, and a bunch of people helped build a 3D world based off it. Vanguard only exists today because SOE was stupid enough to put it on life support. It would of been a distant memory by now had SOE passed.

I honestly have no idea why anyone has faith in this guy. I have designed as many successful MMOs as him. If you want to send your money to someone for a game send it to me. You have the same chance of seeing a game produced.

Bruman_sl said:

That's awesome looking - what is that, and where is it from? Hell I can't tell if it's a to-scale model someone built (with some computer effects added maybe), or a 3D scene someone rendered, or what.

Click to expand...

Fromhere.

Quaid_sl said:

Oh come the fuck on. The kickstarter failed and the project is a joke. There really is no need to attack the guy's whole legacy. It serves no purpose, and is just shitty.

Click to expand...

If the guy's whole legacy is based on bullshit I don't see anything wrong with it being pointed out. There is no reason to play pretend just to spare his feelings. If he doesn't deserve credit then he doesn't deserve credit. That would be his problem, not ours.

Seems obvious to me, but why doesnt someone just license/buy/recreate SojournMUD and it's derivatives (Duris, Toril, Darkover etc.) just like EQ? I dont know what the status is on license/vaporware. But I am pretty sure SOE doesnt own these and since its past nature was to deny any sort of claim to being a DUKMud from the beginning and EQ was such a success with converting it over to graphical play....
Just saying....

Lost Ranger_sl said:

If the guy's whole legacy is based on bullshit I don't see anything wrong with it being pointed out. There is no reason to play pretend just to spare his feelings. If he doesn't deserve credit then he doesn't deserve credit. That would be his problem, not ours.

Click to expand...

I agree, but if you are gonna trash someone's reputation, at least have the decency to do so with facts. All I've seen put forward are some very loose correlations between some EQ Spells/items (which Brad didn't work on, btw) and entrenched RPG systems found in everything since early DND.

So he played Soujourn, and there are some parallels. So what? When a Chef opens a new restaurant is his work invalid because he put an amazing burger on the menu, and he spent his youth eating at McDonalds and he uses their flavour profile for inspiration?

He worked hard for EQ and he is owed credit.

Daly_sl said:

How many times did this guy frick your dog? You've been such an angry poster these past few months man.

Click to expand...

Has he said something incorrect? I hate to break it to you, but your emperor has no clothes.

Quaid_sl said:

I agree, but if you are gonna trash someone's reputation, at least have the decency to do so with facts. All I've seen put forward are some very loose correlations between some EQ Spells/items (which Brad didn't work on, btw) and entrenched RPG systems found in everything since early DND.

So he played Soujourn, and there are some parallels. So what? When a Chef opens a new restaurant is his work invalid because he put an amazing burger on the menu, and he spent his youth eating at McDonalds and he uses their flavour profile for inspiration?

He worked hard for EQ and he is owed credit.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying Brad doesn't deserve any credit. How much credit is what is being called into question. Which is relevant to this thread because EQ is the reason some people are blindly throwing money at the guy. If EQ is just a Sojourn port then Brad honest to god gets WAY to much credit for EQ. The game was designed for him already. It was just a case of putting graphics to the game mechanics. Something that he also didn't actually do himself.

So the question becomes "Is Brad even capable of making a successful MMO from the ground up?". Who the fuck knows? Doesn't seem like someone I'd want to just blindly throw money at though heh.

Gecko_sl said:

Anyways, why won't all y'all let this thread die? There are two very good MMOs coming out and all anyone wants to do is circle jerk in this thread. I respect the train wreck appeal, but how long can you sit staring at the smoldering ashes of ruin of Brad's Kickstarter and subsequent website debacle?

Click to expand...

If you look past the current focus on Brad&co this discussion has happened on this board since it was created and will continue longer then Pantheon. As long as it is here or in another dedicated thread the people looking for this game concept wont shit up other threads (not that much, anyway). The idea of "EQ3" was discussed at length in the EQN thread throughout last summer, and that was never going to be a back the roots game - if this thread dwindles away that same discussion will take place in another thread.

And I honestly dont know which MMOs you are referencing - looking forward to EQN myself but that is far away, and from checking into the WS and TESO threads every once in a while people seem unhappy with both?

Yeah I'd like to know what two very good MMOs are coming out as well. Gecko?

Lost Ranger_sl said:

I don't think anyone is saying Brad doesn't deserve any credit. How much credit is what is being called into question. Which is relevant to this thread because EQ is the reason some people are blindly throwing money at the guy. If EQ is just a Sojourn port then Brad honest to god gets WAY to much credit for EQ. The game was designed for him already. It was just a case of putting graphics to the game mechanics. Something that he also didn't actually do himself.

So the question becomes "Is Brad even capable of making a successful MMO from the ground up?". Who the fuck knows? Doesn't seem like someone I'd want to just blindly throw money at though heh.

Click to expand...

Well that would require people do some actual research before they post. As of now, this whole exchange reminds me of a fucking tabloid.

It wouldn't take much to do the argument justice. Someone who played both early EQ and Sojourn could easily post an analysis of similarities between the two products. Until that happens this is all baseless conjecture and shit-slinging.

Go read Flight's post? Draegan played both as well and commented.

Lost Ranger_sl said:

Go read Flight's post? Draegan played both as well and commented.

Click to expand...

Draegan didn't play EQ

Quaid_sl said:

Draegan didn't play EQ

Click to expand...

Oh?

Draegan_sl said:

I played SojournMUD and it's derivatives (Duris, Toril, Darkover etc.) and when I went to play EQ is was EXACTLY the same thing except it had graphics. It's a good thing it was copied because it made a new experience. But it was copied 100%, there wasn't even any iteration on gameplay.

Click to expand...

You should tell him that then Quaid.

Lost Ranger_sl said:

Oh? You should tell him that then Quaid.

Click to expand...

Ask him when he played it, because I'm under a very different impression.

Also, Flight's post consists of a disgruntled ex-coworker expose. I never take those seriously, and neither should you. The dikumud source code stuff is even more ridiculous now than it was then.

I think the frown was too much of a diversion for them.

The comment was aimed at the "personalities" for self-reflection at who succeeds here.