Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Convo · Jan 25, 2014

I think people might be disappointed if their expecting huge, unlimited raids again.. I'm not so sure that's in the plan.. Wouldn't surprise me if it was more on a smaller scale.

rhinohelix · Jan 25, 2014

Let me say this: I have always thought Denaut had valuable insight and provided value as a poster, even if I think he is way off-base now.

I am directly calling out Boozecube: Stop trolling; you may not think you are, but you are. Your last post is a good start in a better direction, though.

Heallun · Jan 25, 2014

Boozecube_sl said:
I don't think you would find that to be that unpopular of an opinion, there is more to these games than just raiding. When you focus on it to much you end up with WOW where pretty much that's all there is, and when that's all there is you have to devolve it down to LFR, FLEX, Normal, Heroic ect.. I miss having one version of a boss and that's it. I also am willing to bet a game that was just a lobby to queue and kill raid bosses would be successful to a certain group as well, because that's almost what WOW is now.

In EQ it wasn't always about the loot, people came from all around to help people finish the Coldain shawl quest because the whole zone erupted into a crazy ass war, where the dwarf city was empty if you failed. It was dynamic encounters that effected the game world if even for a short time that was pretty amazing. If he was talking about recreating experiences like that I would probably throw in money despite him not knowing how they were going to accomplish it but like many of you I am a big fan of that game.

You're mixing your ringwars and your coldain shawls

Shawl 8 ended in iceclad, and the only thing that happened if you failed was having to redo it.

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Denaut_sl said:
That was always a risk coming into this thread. I am trying to extricate myself from this situation elegantly, but that ship has pretty much already sailed. I actually never read MMORPG.com, pretty much rerolled and RPS are the only gaming related places I lurk, so I don't know what their standard arguments are.

Classic EQ had a lot going for it, and much of that is what actually made parts of Vanguard good. Vanguard was a bit like the Wild West of making games, you kind of just did whatever you wanted. Because of that some really great stuff emerged, but the consequence of that is all the bad stuff that comes alongside it. That bad stuff is what ultimately sunk the game. And that was with millions of dollars behind it. I just don't think it is in the cards anymore.

Eventually you make the same dumb argument that seems dumb because a ton of dumb people have made it. Just like sometimes someone might mention off-hand they they liked most of the Luclin character models without really remembering that well, just not remembering vehemently hating them like a lot of people.

You just don't dig the hole deeper by rage-quitting and you come back to fight another day. Or people think you're a jackass, but at least can make fun of yourself and get some shred of respect for not backpedaling like a pussy after saying something stupid like liking Luclin models.

Right guys?! =D

Merlin_sl · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
I think raids are what a lot of us do when we don't have much else to do and are subconsciously ready to burn ourselves out.

For me raiding wasmehuntil POP. Minus the backflagging, I've never had so much damn fun. Course I was a wizzy not a cleric or chanty (Rathe Council, ugh) so it was easier for me.

BoozeCube · Jan 25, 2014

Rhinohelix_sl said:
Let me say this: I have always thought Denaut had valuable insight and provided value as a poster, even if I think he is way off-base now.

I am directly calling out Boozecube: Stop trolling; you may not think you are, but you are. Your last post is a good start in a better direction, though.

tad10 · Jan 25, 2014

Denaut_sl said:
That was always a risk coming into this thread.

Lol. What the fuck does that mean?

I am trying to extricate myself from this situation elegantly, but that ship has pretty much already sailed.

That's because you came into this thread the same way Brad came into the kickstarter full of hot air and "lots o' idears" but little actual preparation.

Vanguard was a bit like the Wild West of making games, you kind of just did whatever you wanted. Because of that some really great stuff emerged, but the consequence of that is all the bad stuff that comes alongside it. That bad stuff is what ultimately sunk the game. And that was with millions of dollars behind it. I just don't think it is in the cards anymore.

Yes we get it. You were on a badly managed EQ+ clone and it didn't work out, therefore no EQ+ clone can ever work out. Someday when you're older feel free to look back at your logic and figure out where you went wrong. Also feel free to go back to December in this thread and see where I'm kvetching about Brad's lack of managerial ability and the likelihood of this project's success without a real producer/project manager running the show so you can feel bad about the "risk" you took coming into this thread to tell us that there is currently "too much brown" in the project, something of which, we are already quite aware.

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Aeiouy_sl said:
Kick and taunt will be keys.

...you press between turning the page of your book?

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Big Flex_sl said:
prediction: much like players, pets will have a secondary specialization the player can activate, for instance the crusader's squire can additionally act as a fluffer.

First, you have to decide if you want an automated NPC pet, or take on a free-to-play player-servant. Pros and cons to both, of course. Only respectable players take on the player-servant as a fluffer, though.

BoozeCube · Jan 25, 2014

Heallun_sl said:
You're mixing your ringwars and your coldain shawls Shawl 8 ended in iceclad, and the only thing that happened if you failed was having to redo it.

Ah shit you are probably right it's been a long time, but the overall message stays the same. There are many things I am unsure of about EQNext but I know they had been talking a ton about dynamic content which is something that could turn out to be pretty awesome. Really, it's just the whole "You're in OUR world now." mentality that is lacking from a lot of games. I see people arguing over small things like class design and abilities and those to me are secondary, nobody is ever going to get a perfect balance for everyone.

Mur_sl · Jan 25, 2014

I'm still stuck on Jetpacks. Trolls in Space...

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
I think people might be disappointed if their expecting huge, unlimited raids again.. I'm not so sure that's in the plan.. Wouldn't surprise me if it was more on a smaller scale.

The thing I've never understood about instancing is it's usually related to capped content. When really, instancing helps solve some of the issues of uncapped encounters. So, what about uncapped instanced raid targets?

Big Flex · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
...you press between turning the page of your book?

pressing is for noob warriors.

tad10 · Jan 25, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
I honestly don't care about raids. There I said it.

Me neither, I always preferred the small group experience. But different strokes - my ideal MMORPG would be majority group content at endgame. One reason I liked Vanilla WoW - a lot of good dungeons at endgame - well until I grew sick of instance running and constantantly losing out to the RNG and realized camping for loot was a vast improvement.

BoozeCube · Jan 25, 2014

Merlin_sl said:
For me raiding wasmehuntil POP. Minus the backflagging, I've never had so much damn fun. Course I was a wizzy not a cleric or chanty (Rathe Council, ugh) so it was easier for me.

PoP was some fun times, then again we were one of two guilds with access to elemental plans for a long time which helped in making it not suck. Coirnav was also a pretty gay encounter, although I think Rathe Council still takes the cake for biggest cockblock in MMO history.

Dumar_sl · Jan 25, 2014

People are ignoring that projects fail all the fucking time - in any and every industry. Look at TOR. It actually made ship, but it's a failure on a level Vanguard could only have nightmares of. Brad hitting a home run on one project, failing on another in comparison makes him a relative fucking success in the history of this industry.

To whom are you comparing by labeling a failure? Join the fucking failure club - it's full of almost every developer in this industry.

Merlin_sl · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
I think people might be disappointed if their expecting huge, unlimited raids again.. I'm not so sure that's in the plan.. Wouldn't surprise me if it was more on a smaller scale.

Based on what? I admit, I don't study those Q&A's so I might have missed it. That would be disappointing though. Ihate hate hatesmaller raids with caps. It also makes a raid feel less epic the less people that are there. I want my 50-70 man raids again. I miss the entire guild raiding. Hell I even miss being screamed at when I log on late on raiding nights. Give me my angry raid leader again!

Skanda · Jan 25, 2014

Dumar_sl said:
Look at TOR. It actually made ship, but it's a failure on a level Vanguard could only have nightmares of.

It actually made a fuck ton of money last year tying TF2 from money made on FTP items. So yeah, the subscription plan was a failure but hardly on the level of Vanguard since TOR seems to be raking it in these days.

tad10 · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
I think people might be disappointed if their expecting huge, unlimited raids again.. I'm not so sure that's in the plan.. Wouldn't surprise me if it was more on a smaller scale.

EQ people will be pissed if raids are < 40. Brad & co. should plan for that as a minimum - I'm not a real raider, but I play one on TV.

Edit: @Merlin still funny

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 25, 2014

Yeah it ties into my wants of equipment not being BoE nor no drop.

I went on raids usually with tons of folks just for the shits and giggles and enjoyment of it , worrying about zero when it came to getting anything out of it other than the fun.

I had my enchanter on another box selling KEI for donations or would quad kite with my druid and use the plat from either to just buy the items I wanted from other players who got the drops.

It let me enjoy the come on come all raids and equip myself however the hell I wanted.

Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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