Parent Thread

chaos · May 10, 2017

I am saying that if you hit your child, that is abuse.

They learn control not through abuse, but through therapy and repetition and time, medication in extreme cases. Hitting them for something they literally cannot control is cruel.

Cad · May 10, 2017

chaos said:
something they literally cannot control

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but how do you know that?

What makes it "something they literally cannot control" versus "something they have a serious issue with that discipline could help control" ?

ZyyzYzzy · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but how do you know that?

What makes it "something they literally cannot control" versus "something they have a serious issue with that discipline could help control" ?

I assume he's talking about adhd and other diagnosed disorders when he says that

Cad · May 10, 2017

ZyyzYzzy said:
I assume he's talking about adhd and other diagnosed disorders when he says that

I assume so too, but what makes adhd something that you "literally cannot control" versus just something that they have more trouble controlling than other people?

ZyyzYzzy · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
I assume so too, but what makes adhd something that you "literally cannot control" versus just something that they have more trouble controlling than other people?

Idk. Anyway there is tons of evidence that physical discipline (abuse, whatever) has far more negative effects on behavior than other forms in both animals and humans

Noodleface · May 10, 2017

Xadion said:
It is not child abuse - its discipline. If I go off and beat them etc. then it is abuse. She got a bruise yesterday from running herself into a bench at the playground, more damage than any spanking either has ever gotten, how she didn't see the stupid bench- who knows

Control is the same as it is for adults, to be all SJW term- we all get triggered all day long, we enact self control and restraint. Are you saying that, at any level of issue or disorder that they cannot learn control? they are outside of understanding consequence and action/reaction? That there is and never will be an ability to have self control?

And the science, is about as science as fucking bill nye - if we go back before it was something of social scorn, there was science that said it could yield positive results - there is also a bunch of "living proof" that discipline actions that sometimes involve spanking is effective, just as much as not.

I never claimed that it was an end all answer - I specifically gave example I have seen where that method of discipline is just taken off the table completely in a fam that advocated it previously- if it does not work, fine. If the kid does not understand, or does not have the mental capacity to understand, I get it.

If truly we are just to say "oh something triggered them, and nothing could be done, they will never learn to restrain themselves, they never can comprehend that their actions are not good" fine, your right - just do not do anything, nothing will work, nothing will ever teach them to cope, analyze, problem solve in their mind an action or reaction cause.... nope.. but I tend to give these kids more chance than that, being a kid, having kids - kids nature is not to be tempered and tempering them is part of raising them up. So sorry that I feel most of these kids could learn and understand and develop beyond just saying fuckem let them do whatever.

And it was abuse it would be issued as such in our laws and statutes, its not- even after all these years of super science. Is there a line that too many bad parents cross? yes - but to me that does not dismiss or demonize the discipline before the line.

Different strokes for different folks I guess , we will have to agree to disagree here. Just because the law allows it doesn't mean it's not abuse. We're talking about a country where electro-shock was legal at one point in time.

My father did not spank me, but he did spank my brother. He now says it was one of the biggest mistakes of his life. Inflicting pain on a child may bring them in line like you want them to, but I bet it doesn't convey the message you truly want. The reason other punishments won't be as effective for you is the kid is gonna think "at least I wasn't hit."

chaos · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but how do you know that?

What makes it "something they literally cannot control" versus "something they have a serious issue with that discipline could help control" ?

Both situations are kind of the same. The measures used to help them control their behavior are "discipline", just not hitting.

Lack of impulse control is one of the key symptoms of ADHD and autism. You can see it in my daughter, she used to spend the majority of her day in trouble for shit she would just do and not even be able to really comprehend what she had done or explain why. Teaching impulse control to a kid like that is hard as fuck. But doable. I've had some success.

ZyyzYzzy · May 10, 2017

chaos said:
Both situations are kind of the same. The measures used to help them control their behavior are "discipline", just not hitting.

Lack of impulse control is one of the key symptoms of ADHD and autism. You can see it in my daughter, she used to spend the majority of her day in trouble for shit she would just do and not even be able to really comprehend what she had done or explain why. Teaching impulse control to a kid like that is hard as fuck. But doable. I've had some success.

Have you tried physical abuse?

I couldn't hepl myself

Cad · May 10, 2017

ZyyzYzzy said:
Idk. Anyway there is tons of evidence that physical discipline (abuse, whatever) has far more negative effects on behavior than other forms in both animals and humans

I agree, but at some point, physical discipline is the last option. Lets say your 12 year old says fuck you dad, I'm not going to school. You say, you're going to school or I'm taking your ipad. He says fuck you, come take it from me bitch. You say... ? You say no playing PS4 because you didn't do your homework, I need you to go to timeout. He says, fuck your timeout, and fuck you. You do... ? At what point do you say, you're going to do what I say or I'm going to get the belt? Maybe you never have to do that, and I'm not saying you knock a kid out for spilling his milk. But his recognition of your authority is always grounded in the fact that he knows you can belt his ass at some point, right?

I mean, what are we talking about here? I think obviously if you are hitting your kid regularly in any way, you're fucking up. Physical discipline needs to be the last resort, the final straw in establishing authority. But if you take physical discipline off the table in every way, and just parrot the "its abuse" line, then when your kid is like, fuck you and your rules, I'm doing X, what do you do? Stand there like Bernie and take it?

ZyyzYzzy · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
I agree, but at some point, physical discipline is the last option. Lets say your 12 year old says fuck you dad, I'm not going to school. You say, you're going to school or I'm taking your ipad. He says fuck you, come take it from me bitch. You say... ? You say no playing PS4 because you didn't do your homework, I need you to go to timeout. He says, fuck your timeout, and fuck you. You do... ? At what point do you say, you're going to do what I say or I'm going to get the belt? Maybe you never have to do that, and I'm not saying you knock a kid out for spilling his milk. But his recognition of your authority is always grounded in the fact that he knows you can belt his ass at some point, right?

I mean, what are we talking about here? I think obviously if you are hitting your kid regularly in any way, you're fucking up. Physical discipline needs to be the last resort, the final straw in establishing authority. But if you take physical discipline off the table in every way, and just parrot the "its abuse" line, then when your kid is like, fuck you and your rules, I'm doing X, what do you do? Stand there like Bernie and take it?

If my child tells me or my wife "fuck you" we've failed miserably to a point wjere they need to be sent to Afghanistan to be honor killed.

Cad · May 10, 2017

ZyyzYzzy said:
If my child tells me or my wife "fuck you" we've failed miserably to a point wjere they need to be sent to Afghanistan to be honor killed.

Spotted the guy with no teenagers yet

chaos · May 10, 2017

guys honor killing is abuse and I am against it

ZyyzYzzy · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
Spotted the guy with no teenagers yet

I fear the day

Noodleface · May 10, 2017

At that point t I assume you can overpower your son and take the possession. If you're at a point in your life where your kid wins then he has ascended and you have been cucked

chaos · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
I agree, but at some point, physical discipline is the last option. Lets say your 12 year old says fuck you dad, I'm not going to school. You say, you're going to school or I'm taking your ipad. He says fuck you, come take it from me bitch. You say... ? You say no playing PS4 because you didn't do your homework, I need you to go to timeout. He says, fuck your timeout, and fuck you. You do... ? At what point do you say, you're going to do what I say or I'm going to get the belt? Maybe you never have to do that, and I'm not saying you knock a kid out for spilling his milk. But his recognition of your authority is always grounded in the fact that he knows you can belt his ass at some point, right?

I mean, what are we talking about here? I think obviously if you are hitting your kid regularly in any way, you're fucking up. Physical discipline needs to be the last resort, the final straw in establishing authority. But if you take physical discipline off the table in every way, and just parrot the "its abuse" line, then when your kid is like, fuck you and your rules, I'm doing X, what do you do? Stand there like Bernie and take it?

Do you just have a problem with the word abuse or something?

Straight up, when your teenager looks at you and says "fuck you and fuck your timeout", is hitting really going to be the thing that solves that problem?

That's pretty extreme. I was a horrible teenager, HORRIBLE, and I never got in my dad's face like that.

Cad · May 10, 2017

chaos said:
That's pretty extreme. I was a horrible teenager, HORRIBLE, and I never got in my dad's face like that.

Why not? Were you afraid he would hit you if you did?

Noodleface · May 10, 2017

A nice spanking will fix the timeout fuck you problem

Oldbased · May 10, 2017

Growing up if I got out of line I got a warning. If I acted up again I got spanked. If I acted up again it was belt. One time I pushed it and got the 2x4 . Up until the 2x4 went for SCHOOL as well.
I learned some respect, not to be a total dick( that came later in life ) and that actions have consequences. Kids and young adults since probably mid 80's? None of that. We see how they all turned out. Insufferable miserable cunts like Mist.
Point proven, if you want your kids not to grow up as a purple haired multi gender 80lb rioting monster, some beatings may have to occur.

chaos · May 10, 2017

Cad said:
Why not? Were you afraid he would hit you if you did?

No, my dad stopped that spanking shit well before I was a teenager. I just didn't have that kind of relationship with him, we fought but I wouldn't have done that.

Cad · May 10, 2017

chaos said:
No, my dad stopped that spanking shit well before I was a teenager. I just didn't have that kind of relationship with him, we fought but I wouldn't have done that.

My only point is ultimately your authority over another person derives from X. What is X for a parent/child?

Parent Thread

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