Racism - Lets keep it civil. Also, Gravy is white.

Cad

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They all were my buds or co-workers over the years that are in IT that I was cool with. It didn't cross my mind they were black males... Just me getting my buds in the door. Other 2 were two white males though younger than me that worked with me at BU. I'm comfortable with everyone regardless of race. Some of my best friends are white!
You have to stop and consider how that looks though... the black guy brings in 66% black candidates. When blacks are 13% of the population, and much less than that of the technical IT-guy population. Would look like you're cherry-picking black guys to bring in. That might not be reality because they may just be your friends like you said; just saying think how that looks to an outside observer.
 

Brahma

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Cad I did! I said oh shit let me call Tom and Rocker in here! This looks shady.

But now look at it from the other side. We see white people bringing in...white people when we know there are qualified minorities. Granted like you said they are rare to find in my field/life, but they are there. I brought them in. We settled on the best candidate in the end, but even getting my buds looked at...that would never have happened IMO if I wasn't there. That's all I ask for with AA.

Don't hire the under qualified minority...but at LEAST bring in the candidates and see if they are qualified as the next guy.
 

Cad

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Cad I did! I said oh shit let me call Tom and Rocker in here! This looks shady.

But now look at it from the other side. We see white people bringing in...white people when we know there are qualified minorities. Granted like you said they are rare to find in my field/life, but they are there. I brought them in. We settled on the best candidate in the end, but even getting my buds looked at...that would never have happened IMO if I wasn't there. That's all I ask for with AA.

Don't hire the under qualified minority...but at LEAST bring in the candidates and see if they are qualified as the next guy.
Unless your race is obvious from your resume how do you avoid bringing in whomever applies and is qualified? Would your friends not have gotten interviews without your intervention?
 

Brahma

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Unless your race is obvious from your resume how do you avoid bringing in whomever applies and is qualified? Would your friends not have gotten interviews without your intervention?
No they would not have gotten an interview if you pull out the general pool.
 

Cad

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No they would not have gotten an interview if you pull out the general pool.
Just for clarity, would they not have gotten an interview because they are underqualified or because of racism?
 

Noodleface

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I find in engineering we worry less about racism and more about sexism. Females are so hard to come by
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Nepotism is equally as bad as discrimination based on race or sex Brahma (well maybe slighlty better than those things, but nonetheless bad).
 

Cad

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I find in engineering we worry less about racism and more about sexism. Females are so hard to come by
When I was a software dev there were a few indian females that seemed to hang on at jobs regardless of how useless they were. To be fair they weren't particularly more useless than a lot of the useless white guys, but they weren't subject to the same treatment as the white guys, either.
 

Kreugen

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I wouldn't have this job without nepotism, but I refuse to call that white male privilege because there are plenty of darkies here and more women than men.

That said, the owners are 4 white guys and a woman. Throw in everyone in management and the ratio stays about the same.

(Real Estate office)
 

Kreugen

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When I was a software dev there were a few indian females that seemed to hang on at jobs regardless of how useless they were. To be fair they weren't particularly more useless than a lot of the useless white guys, but they weren't subject to the same treatment as the white guys, either.
When I was in IT admin at BigBankCorp, my "project manager" was a black woman who had absolutely no idea how our job was performed, so we required both a training manager and a team leader for the 5-10 of us. The team lead was a competent indian who had lived here for many years.

The other few hundred indians I encountered probably couldn't figure out Lincoln Logs, even with instructional videos and then years of practice.
 

Khane

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They all were my buds or co-workers over the years that are in IT that I was cool with. It didn't cross my mind they were black males... Just me getting my buds in the door. Other 2 were two white males though younger than me that worked with me at BU. I'm comfortable with everyone regardless of race. Some of my best friends are white!

EDIT:

I guess I should answer your question huh? Because around them there is no "fitting in". Nothing I have to pretend to like for the betterment of the team. Like the guy that sits behind me. Older Irish guy who I have ZERO, and I mean ZERO in common with. I can't relate to him in any way. His stories about growing up are so far from my stories that I don't even bring up my past. If I told him I fought pit bulls he would explode on me. My candidates would just pretty much ask where and did I know Rollo.

My four candidates...almost to a man they have pretty much grown up in the same manner. We have the same things in common from women to priorities. The white candidates we are all gamers btw.
You're confusing nepotism with affirmative action.

P.S. Is affirmative action even a thing? Legally it isn't. You aren't legally allowed to have any quotas or hiring practices based on race, age, religion, sex etc UNLESS it serves a legitimate business function (i.e. only hiring female waitresses at hooters)
 

Brahma

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Just for clarity, would they not have gotten an interview because they are underqualified or because of racism?
They were more than qualified. The guy we hired was pretty much an enterprise level architect looking for his last gig before retirement. It would have been silly not to hire this guy. Friends be damned. The other positions were analyst level. My friends would be over qualified and would even consider a pay cut obviously.

To answer your question when you say racism OR under qualified. I would chalk that to racism. But because those are the choices you present.
 

Brahma

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You're confusing nepotism with affirmative action.

P.S. Is affirmative action even a thing? Legally it isn't. You aren't legally allowed to have any quotas or hiring practices based on race, age, religion, sex etc UNLESS it serves a legitimate business function (i.e. only hiring female waitresses at hooters)
I am fully aware what both are. But this is why we need AA because nepotism exists. I was giving the example of my why experience.

Is AA a thing? It was when I was hired 20 years ago. My hiring manager straight out told me I was being hired because I was black, was I cool with that. I just asked was I being paid the same? He said no because of my experience at the time. That was pretty much that. I respected him for the straight honesty.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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I am fully aware what both are. But this is why we need AA because nepotism exists. I was giving the example of my why experience.

Is AA a thing? It was when I was hired 20 years ago. My hiring manager straight out told me I was being hired because I was black, was I cool with that. I just asked was I being paid the same? He said no because of my experience at the time. That was pretty much that. I respected him for the straight honesty.
Wait what? You got your friends into interview and said they wouldn't have gotten interviews of they were pulled out of the general candidate pool. Your statement saying we need AA because of nepotism is completely contradicting your actions.
 

Seananigans

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I don't really get it. Your argument is that AA is needed so we can all be uncomfortable with whom we work with. It sounds like everything you just posted was an argument FOR racism. Go figure, people are naturally more comfortable with their extended genetic family than they are with any others?
 

Cad

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No they would not have gotten an interview if you pull out the general pool.
They were more than qualified. My friends would be over qualified and would even consider a pay cut obviously.

To answer your question when you say racism OR under qualified. I would chalk that to racism. But because those are the choices you present.
I guess I don't understand the facts of your situation then...

If your guys were qualified to over qualified, why would they not have even gotten an interview?
 

Brahma

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Wait what? You got your friends into interview and said they wouldn't have gotten interviews of they were pulled out of the general candidate pool. Your statement saying we need AA because of nepotism is completely contradicting your actions.
My friends would not have gotten an interview because of the sheer number of candidates. My friends would not have gotten the interview if my bosses were solely doing the choosing of the interview candidates. They only got the interview because of me being a black dude, knowing other black dudes in the field. I am in no way contradicting myself. I am fully aware of the irony of my example like I said in a previous post.
 

Brahma

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I guess I don't understand the facts of your situation then...

If your guys were qualified to over qualified, why would they not have even gotten an interview?
Sorry...because we were told to bring some people in. It's not like we are searching thru resumes via HR.
 

Cad

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My friends would not have gotten an interview because of the sheer number of candidates. My friends would not have gotten the interview if my bosses were solely doing the choosing of the interview candidates. They only got the interview because of me being a black dude, knowing other black dudes in the field. I am in no way contradicting myself. I am fully aware of the irony of my example like I said in a previous post.
So, your friends got interviews because they had connections with a guy in the industry who recommended them not on the basis of race but because he knew them and knew their work and thought they were qualified and would do a good job, unfortunately some rock star guy got the job. But we need AA because of this?