I doubt there is any data to back up that the average athleticism is equal amongst the African, European and Asian races so that just sounds like speculation. But if there is I'd be interested in seeing it.
Racism - Lets keep it civil. Also, Gravy is white.
- Thread starter Tarrant
- Start date
-
Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 46,591
- 76,600
Bridging the gap between professional-knowledge and layman questions of "Can science explain why Samoans are 56 times more likely to be in the NFL than the average population?" is harder than it sounds but it seems like Hodj isn't even making the effort and instead trying to front as much he can since no one can call his bullshit.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Tuco has given you all permission to troll this issue ruthlessly, so enjoy I guess.
The layman's question is "I can see phenotypic variation, so why isn't race real?" and the answer is "Because phenotypes are plastic to the environment, the determination of racial classification is FST values at the genetic level, and the human populations do not rise to the levels that variation in other species rise to to justify classifying them as subspecies". I actually have explained that. But I don't expect people to get it because I don't expect most people to have ever even HEARD of the fixation index previously.
No one is saying that. I'm saying athleticism is a phenotypic measurement that is irrelevant to the discussion entirely.
Lendarios
Trump's Staff
- 19,360
- -17,424
This is an erroneous view. Ill go back to a specific point Hojd mentioned, about the genome diversity in Africa.
Marathon runners are from a very specific region of Africa, Kenya, Ethiopia and Uganda specifically, a region that has high altitude, and social accepted tradition of long distance running.
Now sprinters are either Jamaicans or Americans, this is because culturally that is because of the sport been supported locally.
These two regions are very far apart, and have a much difference genetic make up. Jamaicans tend to be taller, same as Americans and that translate well to sprints. Lumping them together as black, when they are from completely different regions of the world with completely different social norms and traditions, is missing the point completely.
As a side note, Caucasian males are better at chess because ONLY Caucasian males play chess, not because they have genetic predisposition to it.
Also if you look at the WORLD, the most popular sport (soccer) has a very wide race composition. From Argentinians, Brazilians, Africans and Europeans, The players that are good are all over the world.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 46,591
- 76,600
Wait, before you said I should train my kid on asphalt, now you're saying I should train him on plastic environments? Hodj get your shit together.
Ok sorry I'll stop trolling now. I actually enjoy your posts on this subject.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
The question you should be asking is "Why are we using sports as a metric for determining racial variation?"
Why are you?
This is where the original classifications of race based on cranial morphology fell apart upon critical examination. See, we used to attempt to use cranial morphological differences to determine racial classification. That's where the terms Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid originated, based on cranial morphologies.
Then along came Franz Boas and his colleagues, and they demonstrated that cranial morphology was too plastic to the environment, and the whole paradigm came crashing down.
If you're looking at racial classification of human populations, you need to be looking deeper than the skin, deeper than the bones. This is all superficial differences.
I can cut and paste some of my paper on this subject, which includes some extensive citations if you'd like, but I doubt anyone wants to seriously read it.
Why are you?
This is where the original classifications of race based on cranial morphology fell apart upon critical examination. See, we used to attempt to use cranial morphological differences to determine racial classification. That's where the terms Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid originated, based on cranial morphologies.
Then along came Franz Boas and his colleagues, and they demonstrated that cranial morphology was too plastic to the environment, and the whole paradigm came crashing down.
If you're looking at racial classification of human populations, you need to be looking deeper than the skin, deeper than the bones. This is all superficial differences.
I can cut and paste some of my paper on this subject, which includes some extensive citations if you'd like, but I doubt anyone wants to seriously read it.
Okay I laughed at the plastic environments part.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
- 28,369
- 43,355
But even short distance has a huge African representation. The shortest sprints are obviously held by Bolt (which I don't know if you can extrapolate that entirely to say "Jaimaicans are good sprinters") but Wikipedia says the 800 and above are all world record times by African nations (specifically just Kenya and Ethiopia.)
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
- 2,001
- 213
I'd be curious to see how the bell curve was debunked. I thought it was pretty commonly accepted in academia that races score substantially differently on IQ tests; even tests designed specifically to be non-biased. I thought the debate had moved on to why this is so.
Cad
scientia potentia est
- 25,018
- 47,104
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Check out Jefferson M. Fish's "Race and Intelligence"
Race and Intelligence: Separating Science From Myth: Jefferson M. Fish: 9780805837575: Amazon.com: Books
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
- 2,001
- 213
Well, I can kinda grasp the idea that the SAT is biased towards upbringing/education... basically all the preparatory work. I thought the Bell Curve used a distinctly non-biased test; no language involved... I dunno, I remember someone on this forum linking a chart that showed blacks from households making in excess of 200k score on par with whites from households below the poverty line, and whites from every bracket higher scoring higher than the wealthiest blacks. I don't know how valid of a chart it was; I think maybe it was you Cad, asking if this is so and the person you were asking didn't respond.
I'm curious what the counter-argument is to this: my understanding is that income is a predictor for success re: SAT scores so why do we see the gap even with a hugely "unfair" income gap between a poor white family and an upper class black family?
Lendarios
Trump's Staff
- 19,360
- -17,424
Out of the last 10, years, Jamaica has placed on the podium a total of 8 times, out of a possible 30. That is a huge number, for such a small nation.
List of World Championships in Athletics medalists (men) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also regarding Jamaica
A Need For Speed: Inside Jamaica's Sprint Factory : NPR
TLDR: the social fabric of Jamaica is crucial in developing sprinters.
List of World Championships in Athletics medalists (men) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also regarding Jamaica
A Need For Speed: Inside Jamaica's Sprint Factory : NPR
TLDR: the social fabric of Jamaica is crucial in developing sprinters.
Cad
scientia potentia est
- 25,018
- 47,104
LachiusTZ
Rogue Deathwalker Box
- 14,472
- 27,163
Kenya is high, cultural pressure to run distance and be good at it = quick expression of features conductive to distance running.
Blacks, we bred them like dogs for a century+? for physical labor, so they should have better than average performance in sports etc. You won't find the same guys in Africa (with the same frequency) as you do in rural a Alabama and Florida.
Slanted eyes was either sexual or environmental, and just because the same environmental pressures were in two places, doesn't mean the same gene would mutate.
Euros have caveman. Had a few hundred years of white being a status symbol (like distance running in Kenya). So it became expressed.
There are going to be white guys that physically dominate (jj watt) and black dudes that are brilliant (mathematician in Africa iirc that is so brilliant puerile don't even understand wtf he wrote). Just because there are tendencies does not mean they are laws without exception.
To what Hodj had said, would be really interesting to see humans raised on different planets, to see the true extent of how plastic or development is.
Edit for phone auto corrects
Blacks, we bred them like dogs for a century+? for physical labor, so they should have better than average performance in sports etc. You won't find the same guys in Africa (with the same frequency) as you do in rural a Alabama and Florida.
Slanted eyes was either sexual or environmental, and just because the same environmental pressures were in two places, doesn't mean the same gene would mutate.
Euros have caveman. Had a few hundred years of white being a status symbol (like distance running in Kenya). So it became expressed.
There are going to be white guys that physically dominate (jj watt) and black dudes that are brilliant (mathematician in Africa iirc that is so brilliant puerile don't even understand wtf he wrote). Just because there are tendencies does not mean they are laws without exception.
To what Hodj had said, would be really interesting to see humans raised on different planets, to see the true extent of how plastic or development is.
Edit for phone auto corrects
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
- 2,001
- 213
Yea... that's a little outside my price range, even if I'm genuinely interested in the topic.